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Old February 4, 2013, 09:08 AM   #26
KMAX
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I saw a website on which posters were making comments heralding this as a good thing and that he got what he deserved, etc. I got so infuriated by the ramblings of those scumbags that I could not just change sites, but had to shut down my computer and go outside for a while. No doubt these people would have spit on the soldiers returning from Vietnam in the day. They want to use the freedoms that our military protects yet villify the protectors. I am starting to fume again just thinking about that site, so I'll stop.

Just going to say the man was a hero and his death is a loss for the nation. It was a sad case for the two men killed and the shooter. RIP
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Old February 4, 2013, 10:30 AM   #27
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^ I saw that page too. It's infuriating.

Also, a lot of people on my facebook have taken up the "It happened at a gun range surrounded by people with guns, so how do guns make you safe?" war cry.
Completely oblivious to the fact that they were the only ones at the range that day. People's ignorance, stupidity, and lack of respect really brings the worst out in me.

With all that has gone on lately with the spreading of false information through the mouths of mass media, politicians, etc. we need to make sure we keep our cool though. Don't want to pull a James Yeager.
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Old February 4, 2013, 01:18 PM   #28
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Quote:
Also, a lot of people on my facebook have taken up the "It happened at a gun range surrounded by people with guns, so how do guns make you safe?" war cry.
Matix and Platt also killed folks who were target shooting at the time. It happens. That doesn't prove anything.

Some misguided and ignorant folks will try to politicize anything. We don't need to take the bait.
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Old February 4, 2013, 04:16 PM   #29
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Such a sad way for a military hero to die......killed by a "friend' or shooting buddy.

May God comfort his family and friends.
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Old February 4, 2013, 05:21 PM   #30
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Depending on how you look at it, Terry, you may feel better in knowing that he wasn't shot by a friend or a shooting buddy per se, but somebody apparently not well known to him that he was trying to help.
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Old February 5, 2013, 12:19 AM   #31
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Chris lived his active duty life helping and saving fellow soldiers by doing what he did.

He had chosen to help and save fellow soldiers in his inactive life and paid with the ultimate sacrifice.

Some times this world is a fickled place.

A true hero.

RIP Chris.

Prayers to your family and the family of the slain neighbor.
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Old February 5, 2013, 02:17 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
What was going on for 2.5 hours that witnesses to the shooting didn't summon help?
http://www.yourstephenvilletx.com/he...9bb2963f4.html

"Less than two hours later, a hunting guide found the deceased victims and called 911."

Suggests they were alone at the range. Rough Creek Lodge's website says the place has a 1000-yd rifle range. Those are in short supply in North Texas, so they probably knew Kyle and let him and his friend run the range, even if normal protocol would have been to assign staff to watch over visitors.

There are several outdoor handgun / 100yd rifle ranges closer to where the alleged shooter lived, so they might have gone to Glen Rose specifically because the place had a long-distance rifle range.
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Old February 5, 2013, 07:39 AM   #33
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Midlothian grieves loss of decorated patriots

Here is a link to the local newspaper

http://www.waxahachietx.com/news/ell...a4bcf887a.html

Chad Littlefield's funeral is this week on Friday
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Old February 5, 2013, 07:51 AM   #34
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Family Chris Kyle Issues First Statement

This came from The Blaze

Family of Slain Navy SEAL Chris Kyle Issues First Statement

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...n-kyles-death/

His funeral arrangements are still pending
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Old February 5, 2013, 09:01 AM   #35
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Thanks tyme, I had seen this already in the Star Telegram article I cited above. That "witnesses" stated the victims were "opened up" on around 3:30 is some particularly specific information when in reality, the last folks to apparently report seeing the group was apparently at about 3:15 when they checked in at the lodge's facility. The original confusing statement seemed to indicate that they knew at the time when the victims were shot. That is what seemed so strange.

The original reported witness statement made by the press (and maybe a product of the press) differed significantly from probably what was actually witnessed and that was that the group was seen checking in and the last shots heard from the range where they were believed to be before the bodies were discovered were around 3:30. It wasn't originally stated at the time that the bodies were discovered a long period of time after being shot.
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Old February 5, 2013, 08:12 PM   #36
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If you have someone nutty in your family of a friend keep them away from guns
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Old February 5, 2013, 08:24 PM   #37
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While PTSD probably had a lot to do with this, it does look like theft was at least a partial motive.

According to an article I read just a couple hours ago, Routh went to his sister's house in the F250, and told her he had traded his soul for a new truck.

She tried to get him to turn himself in, but he told her he planned to drive to Oklahoma in order to evade Texas law enforcement.

Would he have killed for a truck, if he did not have PTSD? Hard to say. But he seemed to think of himself as a murderer and thief, based on what he allegedly told his sister.
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Old February 5, 2013, 09:30 PM   #38
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MLeake,
If he had a flashback that lasted a minute or two at the gun range, it's not unreasonable (from my understanding and living with a close relative going through PTSD) that he would have assumed the two he killed were trying to kill him, and he was defending himself. He could have had a conscious or unconscious blackout, but appears to have remembered what he did if the sister's recount is accurate.

Or it could have been seen as a quick F250 for the price of 2 trigger pulls and a soul.

Irrespective its a tragedy for several families.
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Old February 5, 2013, 09:35 PM   #39
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Here's a source for the statements MLeake mentioned:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...ntal-hospital/

What kind of veteran kills a well-known SEAL sniper to steal a truck? I'd love to see his medical records from his evaluations at the mental hospital.
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Old February 5, 2013, 10:34 PM   #40
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There may be more to it than that. He apparently became exceptionally paranoid, killed Kyle and Littlefield, and got the truck as a result...

Quote:
When Routh arrived around 5:45 p.m., his brother-in-law Gaines Blevins said he was “acting and talking strangely.” Routh told his brother-in-law and sister, Laura, that he and two other people “were out shooting target practice and he couldn’t trust them so he killed them before they could kill him.” Routh told them “he traded his soul for a new truck.”
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime...r-her-life.ece
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Old February 5, 2013, 11:29 PM   #41
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"Routh [said to BIL] 'he couldn’t trust anyone anymore and everyone was out to get him,' according to a search warrant affidavit."

Is that a symptom of severe PTSD? It sounds like classic paranoid schizophrenia. Right age range too, since the alleged shooter is 25.
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Old February 6, 2013, 08:24 AM   #42
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First of all, it is exceedingly dangerous to make a diagnosis via media reports of a sensationalized event.

That said, the development of paranoid delusions can be very much a part of complex PTSD. The statements attributed to the killer would be consistent with that particular variation of a paranoid delusion. While tyme is correct that the killer was in the prime risk age range, there is generally a long, slow decent into schizophrenia starting several years earlier. While this is not always the case, an abrupt breakdown in reality testing is more Hollywood than reality. In addition, there is rarely a proximate cause such as combat. Extreme stress can cause a brief reactive psychosis, but this is usually a circumscribed event with full recovery coming quickly. In the end, there is not enough known about the killer's pre-morbid condition to warrant making the call one way or another.

Again, with caveats because the media reports are the source, it sounds as if the killer had on at least one and possibly two recent occasions been involuntarily hospitalized. If this is the case, then he would have been a "prohibited person" with respect to buying, possessing, or USING firearms. For me, it begs the question of why the family didn't inform Chief Kyle and his friend of this status.
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Old February 6, 2013, 09:25 AM   #43
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For me, it begs the question of why the family didn't inform Chief Kyle and his friend of this status.
His family may not have had the opportunity or even known in advance about the outing with Kyle and Littlefield.
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Old February 6, 2013, 10:28 AM   #44
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They have a donation link on his companies site now.

You can also round up to the nearest $5 or $10 if you are buying gear off his site...

http://www.thecraft.com/
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Old February 6, 2013, 11:37 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Armorer-at-Law
His family may not have had the opportunity or even known in advance about the outing with Kyle and Littlefield.
The killer's mother had asked Kyle to help her son. One would hope that she had informed Kyle of her son's history, and she may well have.

----------------------

There is none so dangerous as the one that we believe is not dangerous.

This whole situation is food for thought for those who think they can live their entire lives in "Yellow" or "Red" or whatever they want to call it. Some situations can not be calculated from within our world looking out.

This reminds me of comments after Newtown. "How could that mother have taken him to a gun range!" No mother thinks her son is capable of this, no parent does. If you disagree with me on that, you probably don't have children.

A good many people have been killed by loved ones simply because they could not, would not, fight back.

While I have no doubt that Kyle would have fought back, given the chance, I am equally certain that he could not forsee this situation.

Troubled Marine, PTSD, needs help, Kyle helps people. He's troubled, not a killer. Until he is.
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Old February 6, 2013, 01:16 PM   #46
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Quote:
The killer's mother had asked Kyle to help her son.
I had forgotton that.
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Old February 6, 2013, 10:19 PM   #47
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Just like to point out that Eddie Ray Routh is a war hero as well.

I'd also like to point out that congress has cut veteran's benefits, including those dealing with PTSD, and is trying to cut more.
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Old February 6, 2013, 11:22 PM   #48
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RIP Chris Kyle. Thank you for your service.

My prayers go out to his family.
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Old February 8, 2013, 08:59 PM   #49
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Never take someone with mental issue to gun range or let them near guns.
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Old February 9, 2013, 08:40 AM   #50
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Just like to point out that Eddie Ray Routh is a war hero as well.
Yes, and now he may be a double murderer.
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