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Old February 13, 2013, 06:05 PM   #1
number 9
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One shot, make it count.

I was reading some posts on the competition forum and found a thread that interested me. It posed the question of one shot, (I assume per target) at pistol type competitions. Competitions are not a familiar area for me and there could be a program in place now that deals with this. But in the interest of as much collective knowledge as this forum has what do the shooters predict would be the results of the following?

600 yard firing line.
Competing against only shooters w/ same cals. (one winner per cal.) Must get on to win.
unlimited modifications restrictions w/ exception of rail type mech. rest.
Run what u brung. Must be personally owned. No loaners
One shot and You're done, no warm ups, no sighters, no second chances.
Weapon must not have been fired prior to match, cold bore ambient temp only.


I realize this does not have economics factored into it and many, myself included have a costly trip.

However this would make one shot count.

Just a thought

Leonard
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Old February 13, 2013, 07:38 PM   #2
allaroundhunter
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Most all precision rifle shooters know exactly where their "cold bore" shot is going to go.

If they knew is was going to be a 600 yard shot, then it would end up being similar to just a 1 shot F-Class match at 600 yards....not exciting at all.

However, if you made it unknown distance, with 60 seconds to take the shot and not allow laser rangefinding devices.... That could be more interesting. Not only would you have to make 1 shot count, you would have time pressure of ranging the target and then firing the shot.


And differentiating by caliber is not necessary; not only is it not necessary, it shouldn't be done.

Quote:
Weapon must not have been fired prior to match, cold bore ambient temp only.
I think I know what you mean here.... but taking it literally means that you are asking competitors to buy a rifle off the shelf and then try to shoot it at 600 yards without ever firing it.
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Old February 13, 2013, 07:47 PM   #3
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Point well taken, this would have similar conditions as hunting and would only require a hole in the paper.
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Old February 14, 2013, 01:09 AM   #4
FrankenMauser
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Most shooters that would take the challenge would have previous competition experience, and most would hand-pick their best cold-bore rifle.
As allaroundhunter suggested, the results might actually be quite boring.
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Old February 14, 2013, 05:15 PM   #5
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It's what you get when you waited all year for that hunt and now you are in the desert, woods or mountains. You don't know what your quarry will be doing or how far away he will be doing it, you get one shot for that Moose or pronghorn or sheep or deer No warmups to foul the bore and warm up the barrel. 30 feet or 330 yards you better be ready.
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Old February 14, 2013, 06:40 PM   #6
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If you really want an accurate assessment, don't go to a range. Do it on private property, or BLM/public land. Don't use paper, use steel, a 12" plate.

Unknown distance, 300 - 700+ yards, no wind flags, no flat range, uphill/downhill, one shot, 45 seconds. You either hit, or you don't.

If you really wanted to make it more challenging, you wouldn't point out the target, you would just take the shooter to the firing position and start the time.

Other shooters would have to be out of view of the firing position, and shooters could not mingle after the shot was fired, no helping your buddies.

Repeat as many times as possible, with the last stage being a tiebreaker. Put the "tied" shooters on the line together. Time starts, first hit wins.
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Old February 15, 2013, 12:24 PM   #7
Dan Newberry
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It seems that for years folk have struggled with the cold, clean bore shot--when the answer to the issue has been handy all along. Just because someone is a pedigreed "match winner" that does not mean they have the market cornered on knowledge.

There is a way to get your cold, clean bore shot to land right inside MOA. The problems that most folks experience with CCB shots are compounded by obsessive/compulsive bore cleaning--never a good thing in my opinion. So if we assume that the shooter has learned the detriments of stripping every last vestige of fouling from his rifle's barrel, we can proceed farther toward making the CCB shot land in the group.

Here are some examples of CCB shots with one or two follow up shots...







This next target was shot during load development... powder charge for the 338LM load had been perfected, but seating depth had not been worked with yet... the CCB is low and right of the group center...

After altering the seating depth by only .005" (shorter), here was the result:





So it's very possible, with the correct handloading technique, to develop the load to the point that it'll put the CCB shot into the group. There's never a need--once you have the right load recipe--to fire a fouling shot or two, hoping to get the rifle to "settle down."

This is done with OCW load development (google my name "Dan" and "OCW" and you'll find the page)...

...OCW load development will include seating depth adjustments, or "depth tuning" as I call it--after the powder charge has been perfected. Many folks begin with an arbitrary distance to the lands (DTL) and stick with that, using the coarse adjustment of powder charge to make that particular DTL work. The DTL is the "fine" adjustment--the powder charge is the coarse adjustment.

Once you've settled on the load recipe and perfected it, it then becomes a matter of not performing "death by unga-bunga" on your barrel when you bring the gun home to clean it. Just because these harsh, aggressive bore cleaning chemicals exist that does not mean you need to attack your barrel to the extent that you can't see one whit of fouling on the patch. Todd Hodnett has much to say about this matter--and he knows that of which he speaks, so objections to this barrel cleaning philosophy will be hard to bolster in light of the evidence. He's seeing thousands of rounds of good accuracy from 338 Lapua Magnums--whereas many others don't get near that much. Too much obsessive bore cleaning appears to *shorten* barrel life.

Our Practical Long Range Rifle matches are designed on the philosophy of first round hits. Each competitor has 5 shots he can take at each stage. The plate only needs one hit for score. A first round hit scores 100 points... for each additional shot needed to hit the plate the shooter loses 10 points.

In real world scenarios, one never really gets the opportunity to shoot 5 or 10 shot groups on anything. Game animals aren't going to stand there and let you plink away at them just so you can get a good aggregate. One shot, one kill... should be the mantra of practical riflery, and our course is designed on that philosophy. Here's how we do it... http://bangsteel.com/Rifle_Matches.php

Dan
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Old February 15, 2013, 01:27 PM   #8
Old Grump
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Quote:
It seems that for years folk have struggled with the cold, clean bore shot--when the answer to the issue has been handy all along. Just because someone is a pedigreed "match winner" that does not mean they have the market cornered on knowledge.
In the same vein knowing your particular gun counts. My 300 Wby will do the first 3 shots like this 100 yard target and then shots 4, 5,and 6 will be high right. Shooting at 200 or 300 I wouldn't expect a 2nd or 3rd shot so the first one has to be right. At 200 yards with this scope setting I am typically shooting approximately the same size groups but in the center of the bull and at 300 yards I am 5" below the bull but only with the first 3 shots. Not a gun that would be good for prairie dogs. I always shoot clean cold bore because I know where my first 3 shots are going.


It generally shoots tighter than this, these three shots were taken as fast as I could shoot them.
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Old February 15, 2013, 01:33 PM   #9
Dan Newberry
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Good point... When I shoot my light weight 270 Savage at long range targets, I get 2 shots in warmish weather, and 3 if it's colder... then they're high and a bit right of target.

It is definitely a good idea to know where your rifle is going to point after the barrel heats up a bit...

good post.
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Old February 15, 2013, 01:47 PM   #10
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Many thanks for the detailed posts and the links. I will review the links and try to work the info in. IMO one can never have enough viewpoints. Choice is good.

Thanks,
Leonard
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