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Old February 4, 2013, 11:19 AM   #26
reynolds357
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The only thing I know to tell you is that if you want a Lapua, get a Lapua. Get Nightforce for it as well so you wont have to be sending the scope back continually.
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Old February 4, 2013, 12:04 PM   #27
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Quote:
I DO appreciate help, but I do feel like I was being mocked for asking a stupid question. And yes, there really is such a thing as a stupid question.
IMO, there is no such thing as a stupid question, especially when it comes to firearms. However, there are stupid ways to ask one. Ways that make the question hard to take seriously and make the reader wonder if the asker is actually serious. Referring to one caliber as "the shizz" when one has no personal experience with it, really makes others question your experience. Asking if you should mount an ACOG on a .338 Lapua, while a valid question, is also hard to take seriously due to the comments and questions that had been made previously. (And referencing SHTF/TEOTHAWKI is not usually good).


I will try to answer your question to the best of my ability...

You do not want a .338 Lapua, you want a step up from your .270 Win, not 5 steps up. Go with a 7mm out of your two choices. You will have a wider selection of brass and bullets available and it will take you a long time to outgrow its capabilities.

Now, if you are willing to go outside of your two choices, then I would recommend a .260 Remington or a 6XC. The 6XC is a great long range cartridge and will cost less to reload and will be easier on your shoulder than either a 7mm mag or a .338 Lapua.

When you go to optics, go with a manufacturer that has built a name for themselves for quality and service. Leupold, Nightforce, etc., but make sure it has finger adjustable turrets that are easy to read while your head is still on the gun and that it has a FFP reticle.

If you are wanting to get a real tack driver that is capable of working with you out to 1,000 yards, prepare to be spending close to (or more than) $4,000.
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Old February 4, 2013, 02:26 PM   #28
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Quote:
Now, if you are willing to go outside of your two choices, then I would recommend a .260 Remington or a 6XC. The 6XC is a great long range cartridge and will cost less to reload and will be easier on your shoulder than either a 7mm mag or a .338 Lapua.
Thanks, I will research that. And I will take your advice on the 270. I'll just keep pushing it out using the 270.
I'll see about the .260 rem and the 6xc ... will do some investigation today.
I have a Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40 on my 270...

I appreciate the suggestions.
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Old February 4, 2013, 10:00 PM   #29
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I have to admit that after reading David Tubb's article on the 6XC cartridge, I'm like a kid asking about the intricacies of Quantum Mechanics without even taking Calculus!

I'm getting way ahead of myself.

Thanks, again.
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Old February 4, 2013, 11:26 PM   #30
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When the SHTF scenario is in mind, most people think in terms of 100 yrds, not 1000.

Ergo the question are you serious.

Kind of hard to figure out what someone is planning on doing at 1000 yds.

I think the query takes the record for SHTF range.
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Old February 5, 2013, 02:50 AM   #31
Ben Towe
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Pnolans, just FYI, your .270 and your 7mm have VERY similar ballistic curves. The only difference will be that the 7mm has a bit more energy and it's slightly larger bullet may make it somewhat more suitable for extreme distances, due to better ballistic coefficients and sectional density. Out to 500 yards or so, the difference will be negligible.
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Old February 5, 2013, 08:00 AM   #32
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RC20...

Good point. And to answer, I'm definitely not most people!

I feel like at 60 years old, I'm still relatively new (about 7 years).. and I've got a lot of catching up to do. I want to learn as much as I can.

I learned as a result of this thread that there's a lot more knowledge and experience I need to acquire if I want to hit a target out that far. Why do I want to? Because I want to.

But I do appreciate the input. It may not always seem like it. But really, thanks to all.

EDIT:

As allaroundhunter suggested, I looked at the 260 rem. That really IS a good suggestion. I will put that on my "planning list".
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Last edited by pnolans; February 5, 2013 at 08:27 AM.
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Old February 5, 2013, 09:08 AM   #33
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Quote:
I learned as a result of this thread that there's a lot more knowledge and experience I need to acquire if I want to hit a target out that far. Why do I want to? Because I want to.
There's always more to learn about this hobby/sport, regardless of how long you've been doing it. And heck, if I had to have a reason other than "because I want to" in order to keep shooting...well, then I'd be in trouble
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Old February 6, 2013, 01:21 AM   #34
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Dunno what kind of Rem 700 you have.

If you have a Sendero or Sendero SF in 7mm rem mag, you have a formidable rifle capable of being tuned to deliver 1200yd precision. Maybe not in same 4" 10rd grps at 1000yds as a 30lb bench gun, but very decent...

There is also the potential to ream your barrel to 7mm STW for more velocity.

Velocity plus ballistic coefficiency is what delivers the potential for small groups at great distance. Are you a handloader? Need to study-up on ballistics and performance of various cartridges.

If you got a Sendeo, you've got a better than typical factory barrel and an H-S Precision stock to work with. Rem 700s are easy to change barrels. Buy another magnum barrel in ctg you want on Ebay or Gunbroker and have gunsmith install it. Takes about 30min and cost maybe $30.

Load something like the Hornady 162gr A-Max with .625 bc and learn to shoot it. The Sierra match king 175 or a Berger 180 is the ticket for longest yardage. Learn to handload your ammunition and to tune your rifle.

The .338 Lapua is a specialty item. Takes a larger diameter boltface. Brass is 4x as expensive and hard to find. Burns a lot more powder and only really performs with 250 to 300gr bullets. Bullets are 2-3x as expensive as for 7mm match guns.


7mm rem mag is a superbly accurate round and relatively mild compared to larger bore magnums. Handloaded it can do almost anything you could want. Learn to shoot it to its limits and then decide if you need a 7mm STW or 7mm ultra mag, or 7mm Dakota...


If your rifle is a BDL or ADL model 700, it will be capable of decent accuracy for its intended role as a hunting rifle. You can buy a new stock and heavy contour barrel once you get into the sport. A custom barrel is a great improvement to work with.

First thing you can do to be sure your rifle is capable of best performance is to have the trigger tuned to 2.5lbs so you don't have to fight the trigger. Handloading to mild velocities will enable you to get used to the recoil and not develop flinching habit.

Magnums are not really a beginner centerfire rifle, but if committed and if you can tune your own ammunition, you'll be fine.

Lots of 7mm rem mag brass and heavy 7mm bullets out there as the round is not currently favored or touted. That works in your favor. Get into handloading now and learn your rifle, then you are set to understand what improvements you want.

Good luck!
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Old February 6, 2013, 01:49 PM   #35
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SPS-DM

My 7mm Rem Mag is a 700 SPS-DM.

A little unusual, because it's got a detachable mag.

So, it's the least expensive of the 700 family.

I have a Vortex Voyager 3-9x40 on it. (I may have misspoke in an earlier reply. I have a Zeiss Conquest on my 270 win. )

the rings are Leupold.. I had them put them on at Sportsman's WH.

I went out to the gun club where they have a 600 yard range this morning. I was able to get to a 3" grouping on the outer ring at 400 yards. It's the first time I've attempted to hit a target at 400 yards. I ran out of time, and had to go to work. Else I would have tried 500 yards.

As armsmaster270 said earlier, I think the gun can shoot better than me.
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Old February 6, 2013, 02:16 PM   #36
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There are 2 other options in the 338 family that have not really been mentioned.

The 338 RUM (Remington Ultra Mag) and the 338 Edge. The 338 Edge is a 300 RUM necked up to 338.

Both of course use the same boltface as the other big normal magnums such as the 458, 375 H&H, etc.

The 338 Edge rivals and can outrun the 338 Lapua and brass is pretty cheap. Same with the 338 RUM, brass is relatively cheap as compared to the Lapua.

Now if you are a government or a rich guy that can afford the Lapua, go for it. But in the what if scenerio and just plain fun category the Remington based 338's would be just fine and a whole lot cheaper.

You know the military is having (or already have) the Remington 700's they used rebarrelled to .300 Win Mag. Their rifles, even though chambered for .308, were the long actions. Originally they were intended for 30-06 chambering.

So, if the military thinks that a 300 Win Mag is good enough for the majority of the precision work, it would work for the SHTF type scenerio.

And in fact, if you get into it with someone at 1500 yds that necessitates that distance, (as opposed to simply fading into the woodwork) then they probably have better hardware than you will.

HOWEVER, the fun factor is something else.
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Old February 6, 2013, 07:49 PM   #37
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pnolans, I think you're starting out on the right foot, but I'll suggest a few things to help you put it in the right place on the path to success.

First off, note the more recoil a rifle has, the harder it is to shoot accurate. Especially with shoulder fired rifles. This was demonstrated not too long ago when the US Army was testing several cartridges for their sniper rifle fired by top ranked competitive marksmen at ranges up to 1500 yards. The .300 Win. Mag. delivered the best overall success in first shot hits as well as accuracy at all ranges. The .338 Lapua faired not to well. But the Army had an ego trip that had to be satisfied so they chose the Lapua.

The same difference exists between the 7mm Rem Mag and the .308 Winchester; the smaller one's going to be a lot easier to shoot accurate at something a long, long ways away. 40% better shooting accuracy will produce more first shot hits than 40% better wind bucking ability.

It's all based on the fact that the more recoil a shoulder fired rifle has while the bullet's going down the barrel, the more the rifle's gonna move off the point it was aimed at when the round fired.

Reloading the .308 Win. case is a lot easier than reloading the 7mm Rem Mag one. New cases in the 7 MAG may well shoot more accurate than traditional reloading techniques used; it's belt causes problems that two sizing dies need be used to correct.

Best accuracy barrel life of a 7 Rem Mag's about 700 rounds with a good match barrel. Maybe 1400 with a factory barrel shooting larger groups. A .308's got at least twice that life.
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Old February 7, 2013, 01:31 PM   #38
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Bart,

Best accuracy for 700 rounds! I guess I better start leaving my 7mm Rem Mag in the safe - except to go hunting!

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Old February 7, 2013, 01:43 PM   #39
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PB, it isn't that after 700 rounds groups will open up to 5", they will just begin to open up slightly. If you don't handload, you might not even notice until several hundred rounds after.
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Old February 7, 2013, 02:09 PM   #40
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(Sigh of relief!) That sounds better, I've really fallen in love with that gun. It shoots great!

@200 yards

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Old February 7, 2013, 02:12 PM   #41
allaroundhunter
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That definitely looks like a shooter!

And fwiw, a new barrel will run you less than $400 typically... The cost for rounds that it takes to shoot out a barrel will normally be at least twice that.

But barrel life is a reason that I like my .308
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Old February 7, 2013, 05:02 PM   #42
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Barrel life does not really concern me. The .264 Win mag. is a "notorious barrel burner." Mine went above 3/4 MOA at about 1200 rounds. I re-barreled with a Lilja. I paid about $575 for it and smith work.
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Old February 13, 2013, 07:29 PM   #43
pnolans
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Current state

I decided to go with the 7mm Sendero. I have to wait about a week for the CO. background check.

I'm confident I'm going to love it.
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Old February 13, 2013, 07:31 PM   #44
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You definitely picked a nice rifle! Remington's "SuperCell" recoil pad is very nice (in my opinion), but if recoil is a little much you can still add a Limbsaver.

Do you have a scope for it?
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Old February 13, 2013, 09:38 PM   #45
reynolds357
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Bart, I can not tell the difference in my .300 Win mag with brake and my .338 Lapua with brake. They both recoil something about like a .243 Win. The only difference is the Lapua is a bit louder and knocks off hats beside me. On my shoulder, they both feel the same. I am sure the Lapua would be a bruiser without the brake, but I have no desire to pull the trigger on it with the brake off and find out.
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Old February 13, 2013, 09:40 PM   #46
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I had two super cell recoil pads and they both melted to the bottom of my gun safe. Only recoil pads I have ever seen do this.
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Old February 13, 2013, 10:12 PM   #47
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pbcaster45, that 3-shot group at 200 yards looks like it's a little bigger than an inch. Right? That's good for a factory rifle.

I'd like to see how 10 shots do with it

reynolds357, I'm not referring to recoil after the bullet's left the muzzle and the brake deflects gasses to subdue felt recoil when that happens.
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Old February 14, 2013, 01:27 PM   #48
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Bart, I have to tell the truth. It may look like a Remington Sendero but it's really a custom build by Mike Bryant. Stiller TAC 300 Action, Rock Creek barrel, Badger Ordnance trigger guard, Timney Trigger, all glass bedded to a McMillan Remington Hunter stock. It wasn't cheap - but it sure does shoot!

The 3-shot group at 200 yards was .672 center-to-center. Lucky for me it was dead still - too dumb to get wind flags (soon!)

The load:

Bullet: Nosler 160 gr. AccuBond
Powder: Alliant Reloader 25 69.0 grs.
Primer: Federal 215
Case: Federal Once Fired
LOAL: 3.323 (2.758 Base to Ogive with Stoney Point)
Average Velocity: 2995.40 fps
ES: 19.98
SD: 8.42

When I picked it up from the gunsmith and shot my first three shot group I nearly fell out of my chair...



That's at 100 yards.

Last edited by pbcaster45; February 14, 2013 at 11:52 PM. Reason: grammer
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Old February 14, 2013, 01:50 PM   #49
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Nastiest gun I have shot is the 7mm. don't get me wrong, it is pretty amazing, but it was far worse than the 375 H&H or the 338 WM.

Effective recoil pad is a must for more than typical hunting situation (a few shots to confirm zero, one shot for the Elk (Colorado, moose or caribou in AK)

My brother got a limb save on his and it tamed it.

And don't get me wrong, I think long range shooting would be a lot of fun.

I just don't see it has a SHTF need. If that would occur, then everyone who has it will be carrying a gun rural Colorado or anywhere in AK!).

At that point you have to determine "bad intent" vs someone just going about their legitimate business. My take is that occurs at 100 yds or under pretty much where you can start to figure that out.

Even a guy with tatoes and pieced ears could well be an ally not an enemy. Only if they are aggressive do they get shot.
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Old February 14, 2013, 03:20 PM   #50
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Uh,... I meant I almost fell out of my chair from shock (at the accuracy) - not recoil!
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