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Old February 2, 2013, 09:35 PM   #1
RMFC
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Please help identify this rifle

So I am new to rifles, not to guns. I own a few handguns but was looking to pick up a rifle and get into hunting. My neighbor has a bolt action 30-06 he picked up from a friend at church but does not know what kind it is. He was asking $300 and I wanted to see if you all could help me identify it so I could have a better idea of what company manufactured it/what model it is and whether or not it would be worth the money.

Here's a little info that might help:
-30-06 is inscribed on the left side of the barrel near the front mount of the scope.
-The numbers 4493 (I believe) are inscribed on the magazine plate in front of the trigger guard.
-I tried to get a decent shot of the safety in one of the picture. My neighbor said it might help.


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Old February 2, 2013, 09:44 PM   #2
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It is a military Mauser action that has been sporterized with a new barrel, new stock, new bolt handle and low safety for a scope.
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Old February 2, 2013, 09:44 PM   #3
ogree
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Looks like a custom Mauser 98.
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Old February 2, 2013, 09:48 PM   #4
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Look like a sporterized Mauser..

the safety anf the large gas ring visible with the bolt closed.

It also maybe "Santa Barbara" Mauser, that was commercially made in the late 50's to 70's, for customized rifles.

Can't really give a price, try searching the various auction pages, to try a get a range.
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Old February 2, 2013, 09:55 PM   #5
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Its military, you can see the cutout for the stripper clip even tho the hump has been ground down.
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Old February 2, 2013, 10:02 PM   #6
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Nice looking rifle. Someone put more money into making it a sporter than it is currently worth.
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Old February 2, 2013, 10:09 PM   #7
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So would you all say it is worth it for a first rifle at $300?
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Old February 2, 2013, 10:19 PM   #8
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depending on the make, 300 is a decent asking price. german K98 mausers in perfect condition go for 1000 but once they are sporterized they drop to around 250-400. other mausers like czech vz24s or turkish mausers top out at around $400 in good condition so it will depend on the markings on the rifle to help verify it's origins. however I would say regardless of the make and caliber then I would say you got a good deal.
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Old February 2, 2013, 10:32 PM   #9
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Yes it is worth $300, and no it isn't. The sporter job appears to be pretty well done, and the .30-06 is a versatile cartridge and it will be relatively easy to find ammunition for. However, the proof will be in how well the rifle shoots weather or not it was $300 well spent.

The Bushnell scope on top of it doesn't add any value to the rifle. Plus I can't tell from the pictures how well the stock and action fit together. I can't tell if the trigger has been replaced or is the old military two stage either.

What are your expectations of your first rifle? What kind of accuracy do you.expect? Are you willing to spend.more money on it if it doesn't perform to your standards? Plus you need to be honest about what you are going to use it for. If you are going to be mainly hunting it is hard to beat the .30-06, if just shooting at the range is your goal then there are better cartridge choices for that.

To me it is well worth the $300 for the rifle. However, I would also expect to put some money into it to get it shooting the way I want at the very least it would get a new scope right off the bat. That said I may have to do nothing to it as it could be a tack driving big game killing machine.
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Old February 2, 2013, 10:51 PM   #10
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As far as the rifle shoots, truth be told, I have not yet shot it. I am not experienced enough shooting rifles that it would make a difference either. I have known my neighbor for many years and know him to be an honest forthcoming persons (one of those rare breeds nowadays). That being said, he has let me know it shoots well and hes never had any problems. As far as my expectations are concerned I am looking for a rifle that will be consistently accurate. I will be starting off at the range to get comfortable with it and with shooting a rifle in general, but I do plan on putting in for a deer tag when this year's season comes around.
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Old February 2, 2013, 11:47 PM   #11
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I definitely would not pay any more than that. Looking at the workmanship makes me cringe. The action is sitting high in the wood, the wood is proud around the ejection port, a.d it looks to have the military grigger. $250-$300 is about max.
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Old February 3, 2013, 12:21 AM   #12
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So Scorch I know you said the workmanship was sub par. What all was likely modified?
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Old February 3, 2013, 12:23 AM   #13
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I guess I'm asking what it means that its sporterized?
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Old February 3, 2013, 01:34 AM   #14
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Quote:
So Scorch I know you said the workmanship was sub par. What all was likely modified?
It's hard to tell what was modified, but that's not the point. The wood work is sloppy, so I always assume the rest of the work matches. Saying "it shoots well" is not very descriptive. How well is well? 2" at 100 yds? 4" at 100 yds? It goes bang? It is what it is, an old gunsmith rifle made with a military action and a pre-carved stock blank. There is one similar at a local shop here, asking price $250, and it's been there for a couple of years. For the $300 your neighbor is asking, it may or may not be a good deal. Since you said you know little about rifles, it may easier in the long run to pay a little more for a new factory rifle and be on the safe side (if you run into problems, they are warranted). If you feel like your neighbor is going to help you out if you run into issues, you can go for it. Your call.
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Old February 3, 2013, 01:36 AM   #15
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Quote:
I guess I'm asking what it means that its sporterized?
It means it started out looking something like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ka..._AM.021488.jpg

Small variations depending on the country of origin, but it would have had a full stock, upper handguard, bayonet lug, and iron sights, and in all likelihood been made in 8mm Mauser.

Someone threw away everything but the action, and built that rifle.

Are there any markings on the other side of the rifle?
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Old February 3, 2013, 01:53 AM   #16
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Thanks for the info emcon5, but I did not see any other markings. Scorch thanks for the perspective on the accuracy. I think I have a lot better of an idea about this rifle after everyone's input so thank you. If I end up buying it I will come back with a range report!
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Old February 3, 2013, 11:02 AM   #17
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I agree with Scorch.

What's meant by sloppy visible workmanship, can be seen in you pic, if one know what something done correctly should look like.

For just two examples, look closely at the top line of the stock (most likely an inexpensive aftermarket Bishop - $45 in the 70's), in two areas: between the rear of the EJ port, and again to the rear of the bolt handle recess.



In both areas, the top line should be straight, parallel to the top edge of the metal directly above, and higher than it is.

The EJ port wood has been cut or sanded at an akward down-sloping angle, and the wood to the rear of the bolt handle recess has been oversanded to the point that the side(s) of the tang are visible (a no-no).

Soooo, being that whoever did the work allowed at least that much to show, makes others like Scorch & myself wander how much sloppy work is hidden.

Below, for comparison, is an example of decent stockwork.




.

Last edited by PetahW; February 3, 2013 at 11:08 AM.
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Old February 3, 2013, 12:16 PM   #18
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We're talking about a $300 sporter rifle here, lets not loose sight of that. I could care less about how the stock looks on the outside as long as it is functional enough to give me an idea about how well the rifle will shoot. Like I said to me it is probably worth $300 because I'm looking at the cost of the action alone, the barrel might actually be a decent barrel but the info isn't there until the rifle is shot.

Remember back when the sporterizing of these rifles was popular people got creative with the stocks as well. There are a lot of examples out there that depart from the classic lines of the stock you pictured PetahW. For me if the stock can't be made into something I like then it will get replaced plain and simple, but for $300 we shouldn't expect anything like the photo that you posted above.

I'm more concerned with the metal work than the stock. However, in the picture the scope mounts seem to be drilled and tapped in the correct location, ahead of the ring where the recoil lugs butt up instead of through it. The bolt handle seems to be forged properly, as there are no scuff marks visible on the power adjustment ring or eyepiece of the scope and the mounts aren't obscenely high. Plus the rear receiver charging hump was ground down with a nice profile. I hate the low swing safety as they are usually hard to manipulate with a scope mounted and gloves on but that can easily be replaced with a new trigger and commercial bolt shroud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorch
Since you said you know little about rifles, it may easier in the long run to pay a little more for a new factory rifle and be on the safe side (if you run into problems, they are warranted). If you feel like your neighbor is going to help you out if you run into issues, you can go for it. Your call.
This is probably the most sound advice of all. Because even though I see potential in that rifle, it is going to take more money and possibly work that I couldn't do myself to make it what I would want. Spending a couple hundred more in advance might be the best insurance against a lot of heart ache down the road. My guess is the neighbor wants to sell it because he doesn't want to put money into it either, and figures that the OP is just looking for a functional rifle that will work for him. Which this rifle may very well be that type of rifle.
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Old February 3, 2013, 12:22 PM   #19
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Its well worth 300 and will probably out shoot anybody's off the rack hunting rifle.
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Old February 3, 2013, 02:56 PM   #20
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Hello,

I would probably give $250 to $300 for it. Might drop it back into a military stock as I just like those looks over anything else. Personal preference and I'm in no way saying sporterizing is wrong.

Milsurps can be amazingly precise. Here is my lightly modified Mosin:

http://www.smith-sights.com/accurizi...year-later.php

A stock 98 with a good bore will be similar.

Regards,

Josh
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Old February 3, 2013, 03:16 PM   #21
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Many years ago back in my tool and die maker days I helped several friends make sporters out of these great old military rifles. They all had one thing in common, they were great shooters.
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Old February 3, 2013, 04:56 PM   #22
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Thanks for your help everyone. After reading through all the replies I decided that, as the age old saying goes, you get what you pay for. In light of that, I ended up going out today and buying a Browning X Bolt chambered in 30-06. A bit more money up front, but I'm sure in the long run It's going to be a purchase that I will not regret.
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Old February 3, 2013, 05:17 PM   #23
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You can not come on and say that without a picture of the baby.
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Old February 3, 2013, 05:24 PM   #24
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Unfortunately I life in California ... I'll be back in 10 days.
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Old February 3, 2013, 06:42 PM   #25
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Well when you get it post a pic. I am sure it is a pretty one. Browning rifles are known to be great shooters.
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