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Old January 30, 2013, 07:18 AM   #1
BoogieMan
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When do you start to increase distance?

I want to be able to shoot at longer ranges (500+ yds) but I dont know what is acceptable accuracy at 100 to be able to move out to 200 then 300 etc....
How do I know that the groups im shooting are me -vs- the rifles ability? I am bench shooting with front rest. Im not struggling to hold on target before I squeeze the trigger and my shots are not all pulling one direction. I shoot a fair amount of pistol also. No problem with 2" group at 25 off hand, when I shoot my bolt 22 at 50 I can put group average about 5/8".
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Old January 30, 2013, 07:45 AM   #2
MTSCMike
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You are shooting just over 1 MOA at 50 yards with your 22 and 1 MOA is a reasonable indicator of good accuracy. Depending on the rifle and ammo it could be indicative of GREAT accuracy.

To move out you just continue to use the same fundamentals you use at closer ranges. The equipment you use can become the limiting factor. You don't mention your rifle brand/model or ammo type. Not all rifle and ammo combinations will hold 1 MOA at 300+ yards even if bolted to the bench.
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Old January 30, 2013, 12:26 PM   #3
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my 22 is a jc higgins (marlin 80) from the late 40's to early 50's. I am shooting wolf subsonic to get groups like that and a Simmons 22mag 3-9 scope. The reason I ask is because I am unsure of myself and I dont have another shooter around whom I have confidence. I have a sported Mauser 30-06 (FN) that I plan to try my abilities with at the 100 mark. I am currently shooting a rem 7600 30-06, my first shot is normally within the bull ring but after that the rifle heat walks so bad im not sure what im doing.
My point is that its very easy for me to blame the rifle (at any range) and blow mega bucks before it becomes evident that its me that cant shoot..
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Old January 30, 2013, 12:45 PM   #4
Brian Pfleuger
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Acceptable accuracy is up to the shooter and target.

If you're in competition, you might have to shoot 1/4 MOA. If you're shooting deer, 2 or even 3 MOA is fine.

Shoot at 200, 300 and 400 and see what you get. It's teh only way to know.
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Old January 30, 2013, 12:50 PM   #5
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No time like the present.....
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Old January 31, 2013, 12:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
I squeeze the trigger and my shots are not all pulling one direction. I shoot a fair amount of pistol also. No problem with 2" group at 25 off hand, when I shoot my bolt 22 at 50 I can put group average about 5/8".
You are ready for 100 yards now. Shoot both long gun and pistol at 100 yards and you will learn to concentrate on that front sight/trigger like you never have before.

When you go back to 25 and 50 yards you will find the concentration needed for intermediate range shooting has made you better at the close ranges. As soon as you are shooting most of your shots inside the black bull at 100 move to 200 yards. As soon as you get over the mental hurdle of it being so far away and find that the bullet drop isn't near as much as you thought it would be your groups will tighten up again.

The big thing is between the ears, convincing yourself that you can and then you will do. In the meantime pay attention to the light, it will affect you more at longer distances, learn to judge wind and know how far to adjust your sights to accommodate it. Then you can get past these intermediate distances and start working on long range. Don't hurry it, nothing happens in a day. Just relax, think it out have fun and it will come quicker than you think.
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Old January 31, 2013, 06:45 PM   #7
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Thanks for the info and encouragement. What I need to find is a bench rig to determine if the rifle is actually shooting well. I need to differentiate if its me or the rifle or ammo that is off.
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Old January 31, 2013, 06:47 PM   #8
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I'm with Brian & emcon5 - shoot at distance now.

After shooting - if, when you examine the target there's no holes, it's time to drop back to a range where there are some. .


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Old January 31, 2013, 06:50 PM   #9
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Absent external influences, bullet flight is basically linear.

Meaning, whatever the rifle, ammunition absent shooter error can deliver at 100 yards will be multiplied by whatever factor of the distance involved- provided, of course, that all the factors affecting it- gravity and wind, and to a lesser extent things like temp and humidity are compensated for correctly.

Like Brian said, depends on what your expectations are.

As a very general rule of thumb, if it can't shoot minute of angle (1" at 100) it would be unsuitable for any sort of longer range shooting. Again, that's the rifle, and not what the shooter is capable of doing.
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Old January 31, 2013, 07:13 PM   #10
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I was fortunate enought to have Brian P help me along the way ( thanks Brian).
I only shot at 100 yards for a very short time and then went right to 300. See where you are at when you do 300 yards. I then started going out 100 yards at a time. At the risk of sounding vain, It is not really that hard. A lot will depend on what you are shooting also. I remember my first 1000 yard shot. I was so ( not even sure what i was ) Then after the first 3 shot's and a drive down the range to see where i hit,I relized I was thinking it out to much. KNow your clicks and go for it. You might find it easier than you think
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Old January 31, 2013, 10:46 PM   #11
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Send it.

Not sure what your reluctance is. You mention wanting to get a "bench rig" to see if it's you or the gun. I'm not exactly which gun you're talking about using, but it doesn't matter. Move it out and shoot it. Find out what groups you shoot at XXX distance. Work on improving that IF YOU think it's not as tight as you want.
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Old February 2, 2013, 01:59 AM   #12
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No way to know unless you try! I took my .308 out over Christmas break and was stretching its legs out at 500 yards. My father (who hasn't shot a rifle in 20 years) and my little brother (who has never shot anything more than a .22) decided to tag along. Both of them wanted to take a shot, and believe it or not, both of them put their first shot in the bullseye!

Now, I knew beforehand that my rifle was more than capable of shooting under 1.5 MOA at that range, but I still have my doubts about my own abilities

Get out there, shoot some, and work your way out to 500
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Old February 2, 2013, 02:11 AM   #13
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if it can't shoot minute of angle (1" at 100) it would be unsuitable for any sort of longer range shooting. Again, that's the rifle, and not what the shooter is capable of doing.
Maybe for target shooting games ..... for hunting, not so much.

A 3 MOA rifle will put bullets in a roughly 9" circle @ 300, if the shooter adds no error. A whitetail's chest is larger than that. There are darn few rifles in working conditon that shoot that badly with good ammo.

It's the Indian, not the Arrow, that matters most.
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Old February 2, 2013, 11:11 AM   #14
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You don't need a fancy bench rig to take the human element out of the equation. Place sandbags under the forend and under the butt stock. Make minor adjustments by squeezing the bag, or wiggle the rifle down. That makes your rifle steady. You will be able to see less or no movement of your reticle on the target. Then do everything as you normally do.
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Old February 2, 2013, 02:32 PM   #15
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Note that the human element is always in the equasion as long as the rifle is touching the human. Benchresters eliminate 99% of the equasion by shooting their tack drivers in free recoil as the rest atop bags on a bench and the only human thing touching them is their trigger finger tip on the rifle's 2 ounce trigger. That rifle so held recoils exactly the same way while the bullet's going down the barrel for every shot fired.

Holding a rifle to ones shoulder with its stock resting on a front and somethimes a rear rest typically shoots less accurate than if clamped in a machine rest fired in total free recoil. Us humans don't hold a rifle with the exact same pressure and force angles and position for every shot. After watching several folks at a rifle range shoot the same scoped match rifle and ammo producing 5-shot groups from 3/4 to over 2 inches at 100 yards, I learned a lot. That rifle and ammo would shoot under 1/3 inch all day long from a machine rest.
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Old February 2, 2013, 07:31 PM   #16
jimbob86
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Note that the human element is always in the equasion as long as the rifle is touching the human.
Aye, but for nearly all practical purposes, the shooter must learn to shoot without a sandbagged bench ...... the difference between a machine rest and a solid bench and sandbags can not be measured in consequential increments for most shooters .....

The bench is fine for establishing the accuracy of a load and rifle ..... the trick is for the shooter to learn to shoot up to his rifle in practical situations.
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Old February 2, 2013, 10:52 PM   #17
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Note that the human element is always in the equasion as long as the rifle is touching the human. Benchresters eliminate 99% of the equasion by shooting their tack drivers in free recoil as the rest atop bags on a bench and the only human thing touching them is their trigger finger tip on the rifle's 2 ounce trigger. That rifle so held recoils exactly the same way while the bullet's going down the barrel for every shot fired

As Bart say's- This is very true. It is also what turned me off on Benchrest shooting. As i tell others now-Benchrest shooting is a equipment and load test only. The human skill is no longer there. I went with F-Class and FTR class.
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Old February 4, 2013, 07:44 AM   #18
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Old February 4, 2013, 11:58 AM   #19
Bart B.
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jimbob86 says:
Quote:
...the difference between a machine rest and a solid bench and sandbags can not be measured in consequential increments for most shooters .....
I disagree if the solid bench and sandbags setup has a very accurate rifle/ammo system held by the shooter. It'll be very easy to see the difference.
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