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Old January 28, 2013, 08:42 AM   #1
militant
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Acceptable snub nose accuracy?

I finally got some rounds through my taurus 605 and can only manage 3-4 inch groups at 30 feet. This is standing up with both hands and not off a sandbag. Is this considered acceptable accuracy? This was with remington umc 130 gr fmj .38 special.
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Old January 28, 2013, 09:00 AM   #2
PetahW
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IMO, acceptable accuracy from a snubnosed revolver is "minute of badguy's thorax" @ 15 feet.


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Old January 28, 2013, 09:04 AM   #3
Skadoosh
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Quote:
Is this considered acceptable accuracy?
That is actually pretty good shooting on your part.

My bet is that if you tried using a sand bag for support or put the snubby in a ransom rest , your snubby would be able to achieve a grouping of about 2-2 1/2" groups at 30ft. Maybe better.
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Old January 28, 2013, 09:22 AM   #4
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Decide on what carry ammo to use and practice with it..

and if you reload make up some more the same.

The 130gr FMJ is so-so on accuracy, the commercial self-defense is normally better.

What you shot for a group is good, just start increasing distance to really get to know your sidearm.

Try finding a bowling pin shoot and work on "quick sighting and trigger coordination," and reloading with speedloaders while keeping on the pins.

Good luck.
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Old January 28, 2013, 09:39 AM   #5
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You need to get realistic with your shooting distance. If you pull that snubby to protect yourself, your threat will most likely be on top of you. Most shootings are within 7'-10'. Practice accordingly. You'll be surprised how accurate your revolver is.
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Old January 28, 2013, 10:32 AM   #6
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3-4 inch groups at 30 feet. This is standing up with both hands and not off a sandbag. Is this considered acceptable accuracy?
For me - no...
I'm capable of better so I'd demand more of myself.
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:11 AM   #7
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Yes. For it's intended purpose 3-4 inches is excellent. The snub nosed revolver is NOT a target weapon. They are capable of excellent accuracy but their short sight radius and (percieved) recoil tend to make them more diffucult to shoot well. I regularly shoot mine at greater distances but I'm a snub junkie and do a LOT of shooting with mine.
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:33 AM   #8
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Snubbed

A good quality snub-nosed revolver is probably capable of shocking accuracy...from a machine rest...but what does that have to do with it?

We're talking about a personal defense arm that is assumed to be a last-ditch effort most often deployed at powder burning distances...or with the muzzle in actual contact with an attacker. It doesn't have to be very accurate.

Stressing over the accuracy of such a piece is like a discussion concerning the top speed of a pickup truck. Interesting...but irrelevant.
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Old January 28, 2013, 01:13 PM   #9
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Its not a "bulls eye" target weapon...and the ammo you selected isn't known as extremely accurate....so yes, I think its ok.

If you want to compare your skill....shoot with the 2 1/2" .....and then a 4" ...and then a 6" ....with the same ammo / and see if you do better or about the same....( ideally same model of gun / in different barrels ) don't switch from a Taurus to a S&W or a Ruger...because there is too much difference in the triggers...between those 3 mfg's...

maybe its the grip, the trigger, the sights, your eyes, the ammo ...the light that day ....all kinds of stuff....

But if you're concerned about whether the gun is a suitable "tactical" weapon....shoot it in rapid fire and evaluate your skill level. Out of a holster...and a double tap on the target...say under 3 sec to start with.
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Old January 28, 2013, 01:30 PM   #10
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8 of 10 shots @ 25 yards for me, I couldn't believe it. Not perfect though, 1 headshot and different placements on the body. If I try more I will get better.

Quote:
can only manage 3-4 inch groups at 30 feet. This is standing up with both hands and not off a sandbag. Is this considered acceptable accuracy?
To me acceptable accuracy is being able to hit your target at long ranges with PDW(personal defence weapon/or EDC) 25 yards max. I don't think bad guy is going to care if I can nail him with a 2 inch group @ 25 yards..
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Old January 28, 2013, 03:26 PM   #11
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Is that double or single action shooting?
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Old January 28, 2013, 05:20 PM   #12
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Double action.
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Old January 28, 2013, 05:28 PM   #13
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That is acceptable combat shooting.

Consider these facts;

A Taurus is no Smith and Wesson or Colt.
The ammo you were using is average.

Good practice will help shrink the group and/or enable you to get the same hits faster.
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Old January 28, 2013, 05:51 PM   #14
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Not trying to start a brand war here, but I have shot a ruger and a s&w and they all did about the same accuracy wise.
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Old January 29, 2013, 05:51 AM   #15
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I use a plain piece of printer paper when practicing with my snub revolvers. If when shooting double action, you can keep all of your shots in the paper, some what centered, you should be good to go for a short barreled self defense gun.

You can try strong hand, support hand, and two hand.

I usually practice at 25 feet and use 158 grain bullets because that is what I am most accurate with.

I am a snubbie fan and have several makes, models, and calibers. I think they make a great self defense gun but at least for me, it takes practice to shoot them well.
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Old January 29, 2013, 06:25 AM   #16
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It's good enough if you can shoot it reasonably fast that well. My 640 shoots groups about half that size slow fire.
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Old January 29, 2013, 08:59 AM   #17
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"Acceptable accuracy" can be defined in many ways depending on the situation...for squirrel hunting with a .22 it's probably an inch at 25 yds...for tin cans on a sunny Saturday, a cpl inches is OK...for SD use, night or day, from any position, it's something else...I attended the Defensive Handgun Course described below and here's what they train for.

For concealed SD carry with any handgun, Front Sight, the NV based shooting school defines successful accuracy as a two shot group that you can cover with the palm and fingers of your hand....from any distance...to the thoracic region ... or a single shot delivered to the cranial region. See the pic below for the black line defined cranial and thoracic regions.

They teach that a group smaller than your hand equates to lost time that you can ill afford in a SD situation. A group larger than that means that you need to slow down a bit to ensure hits when it counts.

The reason for the hand sized group in practice is that your accuracy degrades by at least 50% in a SD situation and that the resulting shot placement will be twice as large...so if you double your practice hand size shot group it'll still be in the thoracic region, when the chips are down.

Front Sight uses SD exercises, most all of them 'controlled pairs', shot from 3 to 15 yds in their Defensive Handgun four day course to achieve that level of proficiency. A part of the qualification testing on the last day will see a successful student place two shots to the thoracic region from the holster in 1.8 seconds shot from the 5 yd line. Time limits are increased for greater distances, but even from 15, the limit is only 2.5 seconds. Their four day course requires 600 rounds to complete...so there's plenty of practice to get that required level of hand eye coordination and muscle memory...and all of it is from the holster.

At any distance...drawing/presenting your handgun, then firing as fast as you can acquire the sights, and placing all fired shots under that palm sized group is the goal of training. Shots must be placed in the the thoracic region...see the attached target.

For adversaries that are not stopped by the two shots fired in the above manner, a third fight-finishing shot is fired to the cranial region...note the small area defined on the target...

A visit to their web site will give you a better idea of the reasons behind their advocacy of these standards. While they train primarily with auto-loaders of most any make, the accuracy standards are the same for those training with a revolver.

Best Regards, Rod

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Old January 29, 2013, 09:14 AM   #18
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Not trying to start a brand war here, but I have shot a ruger and a s&w and they all did about the same accuracy wise.
For most it depends more on the shooter than the firearm.
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Old January 29, 2013, 10:00 AM   #19
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Shots must be placed in the the thoracic region...see the attached target.
Those black rectangle things are about the right size....

The rectangle in Gort's noggin is way too big.


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Old January 29, 2013, 10:30 AM   #20
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We're talking gun fight accuracy, Hal; not who's gunna buy the beer tonight! BTW, they use those black pasters for a trigger control, sight alignment and sight picture exercise entitled, "one ragged hole", shot from 7 yds. LOL Rod
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Old January 29, 2013, 10:47 AM   #21
Don P
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As 9mm stated and others practice at longer distances. Push yourself to shoot/practice out to 25, 35, 50 yards with your snub nose. Consistently being able to hit at those distances will be rewarding and be a big plus to your skill level. My thought is if you can hit at those distances then you should be able to hit a 7, 10 yards.
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Old January 29, 2013, 11:25 AM   #22
Hal
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We're talking gun fight accuracy
Yep - so am I..
I don't do "big targets" well at all. I need something smallish to focus on.
The smaller the target, the better I get.
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Old January 29, 2013, 12:54 PM   #23
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Rod is right on the money, but I also agree with Hal.

I was taught many years ago what the called "instinctive shooting". The method was to bring the gun up but to shoot where you are looking, it was easier if you had something to focus on. Our standard was 3" at 15 yards without the use of sights. the method was "very"similar the what Jim Gregg teaches.

http://www.jimgregg.net/
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Old January 31, 2013, 09:26 PM   #24
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Pretty good shooting! Your groups at this extended range are good enough to save you and yours or at least give you a chance to vacate the area and be safe!
If you kill the BG really dosen't matter, long as you stop the agression.
I know many shooters think of killing an agressor but stopping him is the point.
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Old February 2, 2013, 03:54 PM   #25
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While the vast majority of defensive uses are within 5 yd., longer range practice can help reinforce fundamental shooting skills, build confidence and be great fun!
Search for Bob Munden on Youtube. There's a video of him hitting a steel plate at 200yd with a Model 60.
When light was just right on my sights, I've rung a plate at 100yd fairly regularly.
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