The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 30, 2013, 02:14 PM   #1
Hammerhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,565
End run around the 2nd amendment, EPA lead ban.

The Brady campaign announced they will be petitioning the EPA to ban all lead ammo. In the past the EPA had enough Republican influence and internal 2A backers that they refused to consider it.

Now FNC reports that is changing. Pro 2A EPA officials might be getting nervous about their jobs.

Anyhow, just a heads up that a lead ban might be coming, as it requires no Congressional action.

BATF is also looking at micro stamping ammo again. I'm sure the new BATF chief just appointed by Obama is not pro 2A.

I'm going to continue to stock up.
Hammerhead is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 02:25 PM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,754
It really doesn't have anything to do with the EPAs opinion or influence of any politician.

The law specifically denies the EPAs regulation of ammunition and bullets under TCSA 3(2)(B)(v).
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 02:25 PM   #3
Dr Big Bird PhD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 778
How in the world has our system devolved so much that an entire mineral can be banned without due process?
__________________
I told the new me,
"Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'"
But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back."
Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor
Dr Big Bird PhD is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 05:06 PM   #4
vranasaurus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 16, 2008
Posts: 1,175
As mentioned the EPA lacks the authority. On another note the banning of all lead ammo would have a tough time in the courts. Firearms are useless without ammo and lead ammo "is overwhelming chosen by law abiding citizens" for every lawful purpose for which they use firearms.
vranasaurus is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 05:58 PM   #5
testuser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2010
Posts: 495
If lead were toxic once in the ground, then most of the state of Virginia would be a uninhabitable. Pretty sure the Civil War deposit a pound or two in some concentrated areas...
testuser is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 06:15 PM   #6
speedrrracer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2011
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 259
Quote:
How in the world has our system devolved so much that an entire mineral can be banned without due process?
This sounds as though you are suggesting a mineral has constitutional rights

Last edited by speedrrracer; January 30, 2013 at 06:28 PM.
speedrrracer is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 06:37 PM   #7
Jimboski
Member
 
Join Date: January 28, 2013
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 32
They better not do that! Or give us another way to make ammo in an equal quantity...I need ammo...
Jimboski is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 09:19 PM   #8
2ndsojourn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 15, 2013
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 630
Would zinc work?
2ndsojourn is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 09:22 PM   #9
Daggitt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2011
Posts: 321
No, Zinc does not work very well.
Daggitt is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 09:38 PM   #10
vranasaurus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 16, 2008
Posts: 1,175
Zinc only has 60% of the density of lead. Zinc and Iron have similar densities.

You can use copper, tungsten, bismuth, etc.. but they all are considerably rarer and more costly than lead.
vranasaurus is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 09:55 PM   #11
2ndsojourn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 15, 2013
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 630
Depleted uranium is pretty dense!
2ndsojourn is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 10:49 PM   #12
UtopiaTexasG19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 3, 2011
Location: S.E. Texas Gulf Coast
Posts: 743
The good news is that if they banned lead use for bullets all the inner city gangs would obey the law and there would be no crimes using guns.
UtopiaTexasG19 is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 11:05 PM   #13
vranasaurus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 16, 2008
Posts: 1,175
The real problem with many of the things that would replace lead is that the ammo would then be cosidered armor piercing.
vranasaurus is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 11:09 PM   #14
9mm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 9, 2011
Location: Land of the Free
Posts: 2,711
Lead came from the ground and we are just putting it back in. What is their problem! this is not some lab made chemical!!!!!!!!!
__________________
See user title
9mm is offline  
Old January 31, 2013, 02:29 AM   #15
Dr Big Bird PhD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 778
Quote:
The good news is that if they banned lead use for bullets all the inner city gangs would obey the law and there would be no crimes using guns.
hahah
__________________
I told the new me,
"Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'"
But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back."
Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor
Dr Big Bird PhD is offline  
Old January 31, 2013, 03:04 AM   #16
Hammerhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,565
Quote:
It really doesn't have anything to do with the EPAs opinion or influence of any politician.

The law specifically denies the EPAs regulation of ammunition and bullets under TCSA 3(2)(B)(v).
Well that's good news, thanks.
Guess Fox news had that one wrong.
Hammerhead is offline  
Old January 31, 2013, 03:30 AM   #17
BitterTait
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 133
Lead ban is like the Executive Order or UN Treaty urban ledgend, a good sales pitch or forum post, but no basis in reality.
__________________
Powered by VI!
BitterTait is offline  
Old January 31, 2013, 07:48 AM   #18
UtopiaTexasG19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 3, 2011
Location: S.E. Texas Gulf Coast
Posts: 743
If they banned lead for making bullets I would switch to Galena!
UtopiaTexasG19 is offline  
Old January 31, 2013, 07:59 AM   #19
BoogieMan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2012
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,274
Im in NJ where we have specific laws regarding Pinelands in addition to wetlands, etc... The Pineland commission has attempted to block expansion and shut the club down altogether over lead contamination. Our backstops are steel with a plastic liner under sand. The lead has to be collected and disposed of periodically. My range will through you out if your caught purposely not reaching the lead traps, no scatter guns allowed.
Is what Im saying is that lead may be difficult to ban as a whole but they can take it away a little at a time. Think waterfowl hunting. No more lead shot.
__________________
Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it.
Milton Freidman
BoogieMan is offline  
Old January 31, 2013, 09:28 AM   #20
JimDandy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,426
There is a definite chain of events in leadshot in wetlands. And leadshot is not in and of itself banned. I realize you can make a slippery slope chipping away at a right argument here, but I don't think it has enough wing area to actually fly. At least as far as the leadshot/wetlands argument.
JimDandy is offline  
Old January 31, 2013, 09:48 AM   #21
Slamfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2007
Posts: 4,076
I am going to tell you something you don’t want to hear: lead is bad for you!

I run into denialists all the time, I think they think that by denying lead toxicity shooters somehow are protecting shooting rights.

The attack on our shooting rights is a much larger effort.

Still to get back on track, avoid lead. The current OSHA standards limit workers to 50 micrograms per cubic meter of lead. When you breathe lead vapors lead gets into your body and stays there. Can take years to get lead out of your blood, tissue, fat. Just Google Lead toxicity to find out what it does to humans. Based on my research the greatest source of lead contamination is shooting lead bullets in handguns, and indoor pistol ranges.

This chart shows that each time you pull the trigger on a 38 Special loaded with 158 grain lead bullets, that round puts out 5600 micrograms of lead in the air. That is one heck of a lot of lead particles in the air.

Shoot in open air, clean up your hands before eating, and I don’t know what to do about the clothes. There are lots of lead particles on your clothing after shooting.

__________________
If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.
Slamfire is offline  
Old January 31, 2013, 09:57 AM   #22
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,754
The toxicity of lead is a completely different question than it's danger to the environment or individual shooters because it's used for bullets.

Lead has already been totally, or nearly so, replaced in waterfowl hunting. No other form of shooting or hunting is dangerous to people, animals or the environment, except indoor shooting ranges, which already have their own (effective or otherwise) regulations governing exposure/abatement.
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old January 31, 2013, 12:58 PM   #23
UtopiaTexasG19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 3, 2011
Location: S.E. Texas Gulf Coast
Posts: 743
"There are lots of lead particles on your clothing after shooting."

I shoot while naked so no problems here.....
except in the prone position!
UtopiaTexasG19 is offline  
Old January 31, 2013, 01:05 PM   #24
zincwarrior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2011
Location: Texas, land of Tex-Mex
Posts: 1,232
Quote:
No, Zinc does not work very well.
Zinc respectfuly disagrees and proffers he works quite hard from 9.15 to 9.45AM.

As noted there currently is a law, and IIRC the EPA has publicly stated in the past it does not have to the right to rtegulate lead. I do know this tactic has regularly been brought up by Brady et al in the past.
zincwarrior is offline  
Old January 31, 2013, 03:18 PM   #25
speedrrracer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2011
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 259
Well no one can trust you because, as a zinc warrior, you clearly have a conflict of interest

unless you'll have us believe you're a sunscreen pimp
speedrrracer is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12072 seconds with 7 queries