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Old January 28, 2013, 11:02 PM   #1
TheNocturnus
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I'm done buying cheap pistols.

Finally made it to the range today. I have not been to the range in months. I have either not had the time or the desire to go. I had the bug today and finally took out some guns that I have not shot yet.

Brought my Glock 30, Ruger Mark III 22/45 Target and my Kel Tec P3AT.

The Glock and the Ruger performed as I suspected they would, perfectly.

The Kel Tec on the other hand was a huge letdown. I was using 95gr Federal FMJ rounds and could not get two rounds shot before it would jam up either due to a FTE or Fail to feed. I even had the range master tinker with it and he couldn't get it to function right either. I got the gun used several months ago and never had the chance to shoot it until today.

I kick myself because there have been times that it was the only CCW piece I had on me. I trusted my life to this POS and it might have got me or a loved one killed if it failed like that during a real shooting.

I sold it off immediately after I got home. The guy that bought it from me said he could get it working right, I wished him luck.

I learned 2 things today.

1. NEVER carry a firearm for protection that you have not fired and tested.
2. I'm not going to be buying any bargain brand pistols again. My life is worth more to me. I will save up a little more and get a more reliable pistol.

Anyone else had this embarrassing revelation?
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:13 PM   #2
johnwilliamson062
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Quote:
I got the gun used several months ago and never had the chance to shoot it until today.
I wouldn't blame the brand then. You have to be careful people aren't dumping a problem when you buy used. Have you closely inspected it? Did the previous owner take a file to anything? Every manufacturer has problems. Call Keltec and see what they will do before being angry with them.

Quote:
never had the chance to shoot it until today.
Quote:
there have been times that it was the only CCW piece I had on me
You carried a gun you had never tested? I realize you say you learned that today, but you can't be mad at Keltec for your mistake on this one.

Quote:
The guy that bought it from me said he could get it working right, I wished him luck.
You probably sold it to him at a nice discount and he figures round trip to the factory will be more than worth it.
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:16 PM   #3
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I still buy cheaper handguns, but I've been pretty strict about making sure a weapon is totally reliable before carrying.
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:17 PM   #4
TheNocturnus
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I now need another BUG (back up gun)

These are a few of the ones i'm looking at:

Sig P290


Kahr CM9


Glock 26 or 27


Beretta Nano




And I sold the Kel Tec for $225. And I am not mad at Kel Tec. I am mad at myself. I had a flawless PF9 and a P11 at one time, the recoil was just atrocious though. I only sold those to pay for a Glock.
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Last edited by TheNocturnus; January 28, 2013 at 11:24 PM.
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:25 PM   #5
dcvyn
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Anytime I by a new pistol the first thing I do is shoot 50 rounds in my backyard before it moves to my truck or side.

Last edited by dcvyn; January 28, 2013 at 11:27 PM. Reason: phone mistype
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:26 PM   #6
RBid
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I won't carry anything without running at least 500 rounds through it, first. I'm looking for 0 fails. I came to this practice after experiences with a PF-9.

Lesson learned!
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:30 PM   #7
TheNocturnus
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Yes I have certainly learned my lesson. I am more embarrassed about this than anything. I could have chosen not to share this and save myself some ridicule but with all the new shooters out there maybe they can learn from my mistake.
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:31 PM   #8
shootniron
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It actually could have just been an ammo problem. I have had several of the smaller low priced pistols that would refuse to feed at least one brand of ammo. It might be worth trying another brand.
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:47 PM   #9
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The Glock 26 might be a bit big to replace a P3AT. I think the CM9 is a great choice, although it too is bigger. My CM9 has been completely reliable and is a great shooter considering its tiny size.
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:49 PM   #10
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Don't go too cheap

I don't like to blow big bucks (which I don't have) but I agree you should not compromise on your CCW gun since it may have to save your life. I had a Kel-Tec P-11, carried it for years, put up with the horrible trigger and recoil and all until it started popping the trigger return spring. One trip to Cocoa Beach, fixed. The next time I popped it back in. The third time I popped it back in and sold it. This problem would happen any time with no warning. Luckily all 3 times it was at the range.

Recently, I actually looked at the PF-9, read all the great reviews, considered it, recalled my P-11, and got an LC-9 instead. Fifty bucks more but I am fifty times happier with what I got. Not a Kahr, Sig, Glock, or Beretta by any means, but I have no fear of it failing.

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Old January 29, 2013, 12:00 AM   #11
michael t
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I have 5 KelTec 3 P-32 1 380 and PF-9 My better 1/2 and 2 oldest girls carry the P-32's the 380 and PF-9 are mine . All have been fired with different brands and all have been perfect from 1st brought home .
Don't blame all KelTec's for one That could have been fixed
All companys make a bad gun Ive had 1 Para Ord and 2 Taurus over the years . So it happens .
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Old January 29, 2013, 12:21 AM   #12
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I love my Glock 26. If I needed a smaller 9mm I'd probably get the Kahr.

I've never had a low-end pistols except for a few .22s. I did recently clean out my safes of any cheap long guns and spent the cash on a pair of older Sigs. I've pretty much decided that I'm done with any gun that doesn't get the nod from respected industry professionals, unless it's strictly for recreational shooting. Even then I still opt for higher-quality on the off chance I need it for something more important.
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Old January 29, 2013, 02:02 AM   #13
JimmyR
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I've done the lower end pistols, but mostly as a car gun (Rossi 972). Never gave me any issues, but I didn't keep it that long. Just decided I wanted something different (Mosin Nagant m44).

As for a CC weapon, I have to join the Kahr Chorus. I have the CM9, and its been 100% reliable. I love that I can carry it in my pocket, IWB, or ankle with equal ease, depending on my need and attire.
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Old January 29, 2013, 03:36 AM   #14
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Mosin Nagant m44
for a car gun? nice, wouldn't be hard to hit an engine block if say thugs tried to ram you.
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Old January 29, 2013, 05:16 AM   #15
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Agree

My walther p22 is getting dumped. I'm sticking
To Glock and H&K can't believe a company like
That would produce a POS like the p22
Shot 75 rounds of mixed ammo. CCI blazer
Remington and Winchester. Out of 75 only 30
worked. Not acceptable at all. For another 125 I could
Have gotten a compact Glock.
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Old January 29, 2013, 05:18 AM   #16
JimmyR
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@9mm- No, I wasn't replacing the car gun- I was getting away from the car gun idea, and decided to pick up the m44. Although, in the wrong neighborhood, I guess the m44 might be a nice weapon to have...
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Old January 29, 2013, 06:21 AM   #17
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At least it was a pretty inexpensive couple of lessons! My wife picked out a Ruger SR9c for Christmas this year. I picked up several magazines and handed her 300 rounds of 9mm ball and 50 rounds of Speer Gold Dots; told her she needed to go through all before she used it for the bedside or CCW…she loved it and wanted another 300!

Most issues with handguns (or any guns for that matter) occur in the first 100-200 rounds and it is prudent insurance to run through a few boxes of ammo to confirm. I know many who won’t CCW a piece until after 500 rounds and another 100 rounds of their carry ammo.

As to cheap guns, it’s hard for many non-shooters to swallow $500-600 for a quality handgun; and then add a few magazines, ammo, decent holster and gun belt. Still, I cringe when some I know go out and buy that Hi Point, or a very light-weight compact such as Kel-Tech. Nothing is wrong with those choices, but they often don’t have very good, first-time range experiences. Of those that chose the low-end or very light-weight, compact CCW guns, they ended up purchasing else.

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Old January 29, 2013, 11:20 AM   #18
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Good thread. I agree whole heartedly. I'm so thinking of the same BUG choices as you, except take away the G26/27 and add the Diamondback DB9. I just love the size but hear so many terrible reviews on it. Ugh! What to do.. I'm leaning toward the P290rs. I hear lots of good things since the upgraded trigger.
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Old January 29, 2013, 11:32 AM   #19
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Fotofix,

Don't hold the P22 against Walther. It's made by Umarex, who also make the Sig Mosquito, S&W M&P 15, HK MP5 A5 .22lr, Walther PK380, IWI Uzi .22lr, etc.

'Real' Walthers are a totally different ball game, as are Sigs, HKs, M&Ps, etc. Umarex is great at making good looking .22 toys, which aren't of the same quality that you'd expect from the brand on the box it comes in.
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Old January 29, 2013, 11:34 AM   #20
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If you liked the size and function of the P3AT you could always go with its more expensive knock off brother..


Ruger LCP

However of all the .380's I've fired the nod definitely goes to the Tarus TCP
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Old January 29, 2013, 11:40 AM   #21
Pyzon
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I'm really glad you learned the easy way that a pistol would probably not work when bad mojo was around, and I'm sure a lot of beginners and "old hands" could learn from you if they are listening.

And I am also willing to bet that the majority or CCW folks out there shoot a new carry gun far less than the 'accepted' 500 rounds before sticking it in a pocket, especially the little pistols that are not fun to shoot to begin with. In fact, I would go so far as to bet that there are a bunch of folks that shoot the minimum in a CCW class to get their ticket and never shoot again, even to fill a brand new gun with new (and especially cheap) ammo and carry away.

Don't get me wrong, I am for absolutely no rules or controls on lawful and responsible gun use and carry, but practice is part of what I call responsible.

And specific to the little semi autos like KelTec and Ruger and the others, physics and gun mechanical function require enough mass to cycle the action. If the gun is a lightweight, you have to provide the missing mass in a good firm shooting technique, and avoid 'limp wristing' or you will be plagued with function problems. The good technique is not something that comes naturally to most beginning shooters or even to those of us usually shooting heavier semis or revolvers.

And lastly, yes, some KelTecs work better than others, and yours may have been a lemon, but the often mentioned "fluff and buff" treatment can help any pistol work better. In fairness to KelTec, their customer service has always been top notch in resolving more difficult issues for me.

Glad again that you are lucky in your learning curve.
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Old January 29, 2013, 11:44 AM   #22
dcvyn
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I'm not a fan of 380acp its a good caliber just not for me. S&w makes some very comfortable ccw in a medium size. My 4043 is a very smooth shooter that feeds anything I've tried.
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Old January 29, 2013, 11:45 AM   #23
RedBowTies88
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"accepted 500 rounds"?

And what almighty god came up with that standard?

everyone has their opinions.. some people feel they need to have 1000 rounds downrange before they trust a gun. Personally 200 rounds without a hickup is fine with me..but I only carry guns with good track records.
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Old January 29, 2013, 11:53 AM   #24
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Quote:
Sig P290
Quote:
I'm leaning toward the P290rs. I hear lots of good things since the upgraded trigger.
We just picked up our P290RS, and while I can compare it to the old 290, it is a great piece so far. Only have 160 through it and another session coming up Thursday. Smooth trigger and very very little recoil. And it conceals very well.
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Old January 29, 2013, 12:10 PM   #25
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Don't be so quick to knock "the cheap stuff"

I recently met people who bought some rock island 45, and a citadel45
I never heard if Citadel..( I believe that it came from a cabelas)

one of the rock islands IMO is a POS, the other rock island And the Citadel seem to shoot very well..
there are duds in ANYTHING....

Take my advise with salt, as I am a newbie
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