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Old January 28, 2013, 10:32 PM   #1
Paul81
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Glock 19 vs Sig P250

I'm new the handgun world and looking for my first gun.
I've been pretty much narrowed it down to these 2 or possibly the Sig 2022. I really don't have access to shoot either gun.
The grip angle of the glock worries me a little. I've been shooting a Ruger P95 and like the way it feels, and for a new shooter I'm pretty accurate with it.

On a side note I plan on getting my CHL in the near future, and while I'll probably get a subcompact eventually. In the meantime I'll carry which ever I end up with.
I'm also concerned about not having a safety on a carry weapon. I know most of you guys prefer not to have one, but I'm leary of sticking a ready to fire inside my waistband. Seems more of a chance of unintentional/neglant discharge than an emergency situation.
I'm sure the more I get familiar and comfortable with the weapon that uneasiness will decline.
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Old January 29, 2013, 04:11 AM   #2
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In my opinion, heavy DA triggers and safeties tend to make most newer shooters LESS safe. They often rely on those features for safe firearm handling instead of doing what they SHOULD be doing; keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction and KEEPING THEIR FINGER STRAIGHT AND OFF THE TRIGGER. I can't stress the last part enough; at the shop where I work, I can't tell you how often I hand a gun across the counter and the first thing the customer does is put their finger on the trigger and casually point the gun at me. When I tell them the gun they're holding will fire if they pull the trigger, and if they always keep their finger on the trigger they will end up shooting themselves or someone they love, they usually listen.

Both the Glock and the SIG will fire if you pull the trigger, but only if you pull the trigger; keep your finger indexed above the trigger guard until you're aimed in and ready to fire and it's not an issue. And the heavy, DAO trigger pull of the P250 and the DA/SA trigger on the 2022 both require a lot more training to master than the lighter trigger pull of the Glock. As for the grip angle of the Glock vs. the SIG, that's something you can only decide on from shooting both; I don't like the way the Glock's grip feels when I hold it, but I shoot it well and that's all that matters.

If I had to get rid of ALL my guns but one, I'd choose to keep my Glock 19.
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Old January 29, 2013, 06:07 AM   #3
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Something overlooked is the ability to modify the size of the sig 250. Making it sub compact is easy and cheap. Making a glock 19 sub compact means buying a glock 26. Something to consider for future carry options. Myself, I tried both and went with the glock 19.

Also, the glock grip angle makes since once you do quick follow up shots.

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Old January 29, 2013, 07:39 AM   #4
Paul81
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Theohazard, I get what your saying. While I'm new to handguns I've handled shotguns and rifles the majority of my life. Finger off the trigger is something I preach to my wife(who is a new shooter). and my kids. No matter if it's on the range with rifles, his Red Ryder or his air soft.

Mainly looking for pro/cons of each of the 3 guns from rightfull gun owners not gun salesman :–)


thatgrittyguy, I do like that option but I will get a separate gun for carry.
Reason 1...So wife and kids can be protected when I'm not home
Reason 2..cant have too many guns
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Old January 29, 2013, 07:59 AM   #5
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It's simple, pick whichever one you shoot best. If you can't shoot them yet. Pick whichever one feels better or more solid in your hands. Use your intuition. Different strokes for different folks. We can't really answer for you. Just for ourselves.

Pick one. And post pics back here with a range report. Or it didn't happen.

And God bless the family. I'm sure they're gorgeous. You protect them now, and make sure the wife can also.
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Old January 29, 2013, 08:36 AM   #6
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If you like the P95, why not get one of those? I've had one for 8 years and thousands of rounds without issue.

I would normally suggest the G19, but it sounds like you aren't comfortable carrying it. I've carried glocks for a while, I've even pocket carried a G26 without a holster and I've never had an ND. But if you don't like it, you don't like it. An M&P can be had with an optional thumb safety and is as well respected as the glock.
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Old January 29, 2013, 08:59 AM   #7
Paul81
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Quote:
If you like the P95, why not get one of those?
I will probably end up with one of those too. We've been shooting my dad's and both me and my wife probably have a couple 100 rds each through the it. Thats what my wife is set on getting for her. While not wealthy by any means we're able to buy 2-3 guns in the next 6 months or do. We both "want" our own gun and then I'll geta subcompact for me to carry. So this really will not be a carry gun.
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Old January 29, 2013, 10:24 AM   #8
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"Something overlooked is the ability to modify the size of the sig 250. Making it sub compact is easy and cheap. Making a glock 19 sub compact means buying a glock 26. Something to consider for future carry options. Myself, I tried both and went with the glock 19. "

Better yet buy a G26 and get a G19 mag and sleeve. Cost me all of $40.

The trigger is so much better than the DA sig.
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Old January 29, 2013, 10:49 AM   #9
Theohazard
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Quote:
Mainly looking for pro/cons of each of the 3 guns from rightfull gun owners not gun salesman :–)
Ha, yeah, I guess I got a little preachy there. Sorry about that; maybe I just had too many guns pointed at me yesterday...

My rant notwithstanding, I just wanted to stress to you that modern handguns without external safeties are still completely safe to carry. The only times I've seen negligent discharges with a gun like that are, A) when the person insists on keeping their finger on the trigger, B) when someone "clears" the gun without removing the loaded magazine, then pulls the trigger to dry fire, and C) when someone drops the gun and tries to catch it. All of those are situations easily avoided by a little training and common sense.

Also, I'd caution you against buying the P250 soley for its modular design. It's a neat and convenient design, don't get me wrong, but I've seen too many people trade the gun back in because they couldn't get used to the long DAO trigger pull.
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Old January 29, 2013, 11:37 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Theohazard
And the heavy, DAO trigger pull of the P250
Huh?

Sure, the P250's DAO trigger is long but it's far from heavy. It's pretty light and VERY consistent.

I'll leave discussion of the Glock to others... I don't own one (don't like the way they feel in my hand), but they are good guns and worthy of consideration.

I do have several P250s. It is very true that the trigger is not for everyone and it tends to get a lot of guff from the Glock guys for the length of the trigger pull and the reset (but then, since I also like 1911s, I just return the guff upon them). It is very easy to learn the trigger, and since it's a true DAO you can do a lot of dry fire practice to figure it out. However, I would recommend trying one out before plunking down cash- at least dry fire it to see if you might like it. It seems that the striker fired guys don't like and can't stand it, but those coming over from wheelguns very much like it. My P250s have been very reliable and very manageable. Sure, they aren't quite as easy to shoot accurately as a 1911, but one can get good accuracy out of it. The modular design, IMO, is a benefit to the design but not necessarily the reason to buy it. If you like the gun it can put it over the top. If you don't like the gun it won't make you love it.

The SP2022 is also a fine gun. There's many, many other fine guns in this same vein and price class out there as well.

As for safety, I would contend that the short and light trigger pull of Glocks can work against a shooter too... there's no shortage of folks who've put a bullet in themselves from something getting in the way of the trigger when reholstering. That's far less likely to happen with a longer DA trigger or a manual safety. Good gear and good practices will mitigate this, but I think that calling out any particular model or action in this class of gun as unsafe is incorrect. Some have more tolerance for poor handling than others, but if one's practice is poor there's nothing that will finally prevent someone from a negligent discharge, no matter how "safe" the design.
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Old January 29, 2013, 11:51 AM   #11
Theohazard
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Sure, the P250's DAO trigger is long but it's far from heavy. It's pretty light and VERY consistent.
You're right, that was my mistake. If you notice I just said "long" in my second post; the P250's trigger pull is very long with an equally long reset, but it's definitely not heavy.
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Old January 29, 2013, 06:44 PM   #12
Paul81
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Thanks for all the input guys, back to the gunship today. They didn't have the glock but did have both Sigs. I've eliminated the 2022, just didn't feel right. I really did like the 250, I'm assuming it had the std grips which seemed a little fat. I can deal with it but worry my wife will have a hard time with it. I know they make smaller grips but can't find themon ttheir website.

My uncle had a glock 19 I'm about to go pick up so I can run a few rounds through it

One more question, I know the trigger pull is long on the 250 but can't find the spec on it.. And how much does he short trigger help?
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Old January 29, 2013, 09:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
If you notice I just said "long" in my second post
Yeah, but you know how we work here. Never pass up an opportunity to bust on somebody.


As for the grip sizes, the small grip size might well fit your wife better. The grip module assembly can be found under "accessories" and then "parts." Or just click this handy link. They change out in all of about a minute.

I have never tried their short trigger, so I can't say squat about it. You can call them and ask about it. It can be found here.
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Old January 29, 2013, 10:15 PM   #14
Paul81
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Wow my last post was full of typos. Gotta love posting from a phone.

Thanks Technosavant for the links


I didn't get to bring the glock home but it felt good in my hands.

So I'm kinda back to where I was.
Loved the feel of both guns.
Out of the box the glock fit my hands better but like I suspected of my natural aim was high. I know I can overcome that with practice

The Sig seemed to have better sights but is heavier and think I'll need the smaller grips.
Even with the new grips I'm looking pretty much the same money.
Wish I could just buy both

I'm going to see if a range here has one of each I can rent for a session... Now if I just can find ammo

Thanks again for all the input, I know I'm asking for a lot of input but I'm just trying to learn as much as I can before I drop $500
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Old January 29, 2013, 10:43 PM   #15
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So, you had said that A) This probably won't be your carry gun. For whatever reason. B) You can't have too many, and plan to get several more this year. And C) You actually liked the feel of the Block....

So why not get the Glock now, and sub-compact size 250 later??


I myself sold my G17 for a P250c .45. I really did love that Glock. It points very naturally. And so came my follow up shots. I just wasn't "in love" the Glocks...
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Old January 29, 2013, 10:54 PM   #16
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The "short" trigger for the P250 is a SHORT REACH trigger. That is, it is shaped a bit differently than the standard one, in order to be easier to reach for people with small hands/ short fingers. It does NOT, however, alter the pull length (or reset) in any way.

I will put in a recommendation for the P250. Very accurate, dead nuts reliable (I've put over 1000 rounds through mine with ZERO problems), the flexibility of the three different overall sizes, plus three different grip sizes for each of the Large and Compact frames. The Sub-Compact is available in only two grip sizes. The modular design makes for easy maintenance and repair. The gun is very well made and at the price is a good value.

Despite the long trigger pull (and reset), the trigger is not hard to learn. It is only a matter of getting used to it. Granted, if you switch back and forth between different trigger designs, such as SA only or DA/SA....and the DAO P250, it will be more difficult to maintain proficiency with any of them. But, if you have the P250 as your only pistol, then you will get maximum value from your practice sessions. For purposes of SD shooting and practice along those lines, I've never found the long trigger of the P250 to be a handicap. If I was involved in competition shooting, I wouldn't choose the P250....but for everything else, it does just fine.

One other point, which is controversial.....but I'll mention it anyway. With the Glock, slide movement pre-cocks the striker most of the way. The short trigger movement finishes cocking the striker and releases it. Thus, if carrying with a loaded chamber, you are carrying a (mostly) cocked pistol at all times. I speak for no one else, but I will NOT carry a cocked pistol (if loaded) - as a matter of principle. It is just too easy to have an accident. Others will disagree - so be it. But, I was trained to NEVER trust safety devices (on firearms) 100 %. With the Glock, you are essentially required to trust said safety devices.

The P250, on the other hand, is NEVER cocked (even partially), UNTIL you pull the trigger. That is why it was designed with a relatively long trigger pull. Sorry to those who don't want to hear this - but the P250 IS the SAFER design of the two. It simply IS.

Last edited by wpsdlrg; January 29, 2013 at 10:59 PM.
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Old January 29, 2013, 11:02 PM   #17
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Paul81,
I agree with what others have already said, the P250 trigger was just too long for me. The G19 is a great all purpose pistol.

If you decide to carry it, get the belt clip that Sinclair sells. Makes it much more concealable and comfortable and cost a lot less than a holster.
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Old January 29, 2013, 11:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpsdlrg View Post
The "short" trigger for the P250 is a SHORT REACH trigger. That is, it is shaped a bit differently than the standard one, in order to be easier to reach for people with small hands/ short fingers. It does NOT, however, alter the pull length (or reset) in any way.

I will put in a recommendation for the P250. Very accurate, dead nuts reliable (I've put over 1000 rounds through mine with ZERO problems), the flexibility of the three different overall sizes, plus three different grip sizes for each of the Large and Compact frames. The Sub-Compact is available in only two grip sizes. The modular design makes for easy maintenance and repair. The gun is very well made and at the price is a good value.

Despite the long trigger pull (and reset), the trigger is not hard to learn. It is only a matter of getting used to it. Granted, if you switch back and forth between different trigger designs, such as SA only or DA/SA....and the DAO P250, it will be more difficult to maintain proficiency with any of them. But, if you have the P250 as your only pistol, then you will get maximum value from your practice sessions. For purposes of SD shooting and practice along those lines, I've never found the long trigger of the P250 to be a handicap. If I was involved in competition shooting, I wouldn't choose the P250....but for everything else, it does just fine.

One other point, which is controversial.....but I'll mention it anyway. With the Glock, slide movement pre-cocks the striker most of the way. The short trigger movement finishes cocking the striker and releases it. Thus, if carrying with a loaded chamber, you are carrying a (mostly) cocked pistol at all times. I speak for no one else, but I will NOT carry a cocked pistol (if loaded) - as a matter of principle. It is just too easy to have an accident. Others will disagree - so be it. But, I was trained to NEVER trust safety devices (on firearms) 100 %. With the Glock, you are essentially required to trust said safety devices.

The P250, on the other hand, is NEVER cocked (even partially), UNTIL you pull the trigger. That is why it was designed with a relatively long trigger pull. Sorry to those who don't want to hear this - but the P250 IS the SAFER design of the two. It simply IS.
Sorry to be a bit blunt however your assumptions are a little ignorant.

I don't own or carry a glock as I am not very fond of them.

You claim a cocked pistol is not safe....I will partially agree with you in the case of a 1911. I personally would carry it cocked and locked however I do believe a Dao pistol is safer.

With a glock however, even of 99% cocked it cannot fire. Not mechanically possible in a pistol which is full working order. The striker needs to go back before it can go forward.



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Old January 30, 2013, 12:25 AM   #19
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Quote:
One other point, which is controversial.....but I'll mention it anyway. With the Glock, slide movement pre-cocks the striker most of the way. The short trigger movement finishes cocking the striker and releases it. Thus, if carrying with a loaded chamber, you are carrying a (mostly) cocked pistol at all times. I speak for no one else, but I will NOT carry a cocked pistol (if loaded) - as a matter of principle. It is just too easy to have an accident. Others will disagree - so be it. But, I was trained to NEVER trust safety devices (on firearms) 100 %. With the Glock, you are essentially required to trust said safety devices.
It is impossible for the Glock to fire without the trigger being pulled. It just cannot happen. Even if the striker were to somehow fling forward, the gun will not fire. You make an assumption that because a striker spring is under tension that it could somehow, magically light off a round in the chamber without the trigger being pulled. Well that's correct, for that to happen, it would have to be magic.

You said you don't carry Glocks and you don't like them. It's a safe bet that you have no clue how they work as a result (and based on what you've written about the safety here). Stick to things you do know, rather than perpetuating misinformation and lies.
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Old January 30, 2013, 12:29 AM   #20
wpsdlrg
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"Sorry to be a bit blunt however your assumptions are a little ignorant.

I don't own or carry a glock as I am not very fond of them.

You claim a cocked pistol is not safe....I will partially agree with you in the case of a 1911. I personally would carry it cocked and locked however I do believe a Dao pistol is safer.

With a glock however, even of 99% cocked it cannot fire. Not mechanically possible in a pistol which is full working order. The striker needs to go back before it can go forward. "



In the first place, I made NO "assumptions".

I did NOT say that a cocked pistol is "not safe". I said that the P250 is "the SAFER of the two designs". NOT the same thing. Try reading a little more carefully.

All that is required to fire a Glock, pre-cocked as it is, is a short, light pull of the trigger. MUCH shorter than the P250.
As with many others, you are ASSUMING that the safety devices in a Glock cannot possibly malfunction ("trusting the safety devices 100 %"). YOU used the word IMPOSSIBLE. HOGWASH. ThAT sir, is ignorant. However, it is true that Glocks have an excellent reliability record, including the safety devices. No argument here. Unfortunately, it is that propensity for reflexively putting one's finger on the trigger that gets people into trouble with Glocks, because they are pre-cocked and so easily fired. A circumstance that, I'll wager a million bucks, almost never occurs with a true DAO, such as the P250. It is FAR, FAR more difficult to negligently fire a P250 this way, because of the long trigger pull. Also, the exposed hammer gives a visual indication of the gun being cocked.

Given the FACT that Glocks have increasingly figured in accidental (or negligent) discharges of late, such as the recent case of the man who shot and killed his 7 yr. old son, while climbing into his truck and reaching to place the gun (a Glock) into the console compartment.....and the FACT that cases of this happening with true DAO's are, at best, very few and far between (I've NEVER heard of one such case involving the P250)......I'll consider my point proved, as best it can be. Granted, no one has data on ALL of the accidental discharges involving handguns, certainly not that lists the type involved anyway. But, data of this sort IS compiled by police agencies involving their OWN personnel - and this data indicates that Glocks figure very prominently in the cases of accidental discharges by LEOs. So, if even the (relatively) well-trained police have difficulties with accidental discharges with Glocks, how would poorly trained (or untrained civilians fare) ?

The P250 IS the safer design, when compared with a Glock (or any other closely similar design). Whether anyone likes it or not. That in no way goes to say that Glocks are bad guns...nor does it say that Glocks are inherently unsafe. Not at all. Handled PROPERLY, they are certainly "safe". But NOT as safe as designs like the P250. That was my original statement - that the P250 is the safer design, between the two. That's ALL I said. Some may not wish to believe it, but that changes nothing. You may not want to believe that the earth is round, but it still is, nevertheless.
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Old January 30, 2013, 12:57 AM   #21
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Given the FACT that Glocks have increasingly figured in accidental (or negligent) discharges of late, such as the recent case of the man who shot and killed his 7 yr. old son, while climbing into his truck and reaching to place the gun (a Glock) into the console compartment.....and the FACT that cases of this happening with true DAO's are, at best, very few and far between (I've NEVER heard of one such case involving the P250)......I'll consider my point proved, as best it can be.
I have to point out that the Glock is exponentially more popular than the P250, so comparing the number of incidents with each gun isn't a fair comparison.

I'll admit the Glock is less safe than the P250, but ONLY IF THE USER IS STUPID ENOUGH TO KEEP THEIR FINGER INSIDE THE TRIGGER GUARD. Otherwise, the danger is snags, which is an extremely rare occurence; the P250 protects against this with the long trigger and the Glock with the trigger safety bar.

Saying the Glock is less safe than the P250 is like saying one car is less safe than the other because it's capable of a higher top speed: Sure, if you drive like an idiot the faster car will be more dangerous, but if you drive with just a little bit of sense it's a non-issue.
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Old January 30, 2013, 06:34 AM   #22
thedudeabides
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The Glocks have a short 5 pound-ish trigger pull, it's easy to get used to and short. There's a trigger safety, but for all the Glock haters so is there one on just about every Glock copy out there.

The P250 has a ridiculously long trigger pull. The first gen was so bad I got rid of it (and I have several Sigs).

Glocks aren't unsafe, they are just MUCH more popular. Keep your booger picker off of the trigger.
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