The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 25, 2013, 11:20 AM   #51
Rick F
Member
 
Join Date: October 2, 2012
Posts: 71
I got it back from Springfield Armory on Friday 2/22 . . .

I know a lot of you guys are going to tell me to "suck it up" but I'm not happy with it.




Please advise if that groove is normal running down the length of the frame. My 1911 expert friend said it's not normal (he owns and comptetitvely shoots a wide range of 1911's from Dan Wesson, STI, Springfield, Kimber, Charles Daly, and RIA). And I know my Kimber does not show any wear there. It sort of looked like a weld line, and not a gauge, but it was hard for me to tell. Maybe it's from the barrel lug?!?









Forgot to mention that they did fix the rear frame/slide fit by the hammer, where the slide poked out about a millimeter from the frame.
__________________
Sig P220 Elite Stainless .45 /// H&K P30L 9mm /// Kimber Eclipse Target II .45 /// S&W 686+ 5" Pro /// Walther PPS 9mm /// SA MC Operator .45 /// LMT MRP w/ACOG TA11HG /// Ruger Scout w/Nikon /// Benelli Nova Tactical 12g /// EVO X & S2000

Last edited by Rick F; February 25, 2013 at 06:44 PM.
Rick F is offline  
Old February 25, 2013, 11:26 AM   #52
Rick F
Member
 
Join Date: October 2, 2012
Posts: 71
deleted
__________________
Sig P220 Elite Stainless .45 /// H&K P30L 9mm /// Kimber Eclipse Target II .45 /// S&W 686+ 5" Pro /// Walther PPS 9mm /// SA MC Operator .45 /// LMT MRP w/ACOG TA11HG /// Ruger Scout w/Nikon /// Benelli Nova Tactical 12g /// EVO X & S2000

Last edited by Rick F; February 25, 2013 at 06:47 PM.
Rick F is offline  
Old February 25, 2013, 06:48 PM   #53
Rick F
Member
 
Join Date: October 2, 2012
Posts: 71
Spoke to Springfield

I spoke to SA, who said they are looking into getting me a refund for the pistol. To be honest, I'd rather have a new one that isn't messed up. At this point, with the QC issues they are having, I suppose I'm better off cutting my losses. Before sending it back, I did ask the customer service person to just open the box and look at it before it shipped, but they admittedly didn't. They could've fixed it before I even knew by quickly glancing at it.
__________________
Sig P220 Elite Stainless .45 /// H&K P30L 9mm /// Kimber Eclipse Target II .45 /// S&W 686+ 5" Pro /// Walther PPS 9mm /// SA MC Operator .45 /// LMT MRP w/ACOG TA11HG /// Ruger Scout w/Nikon /// Benelli Nova Tactical 12g /// EVO X & S2000
Rick F is offline  
Old February 26, 2013, 09:22 AM   #54
scottl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2007
Location: Morehead,Ky
Posts: 751
Some larger, better detailed pics would help show off what you not happy with.But going by what you've got here it looks like finish was rubbed during assembly or take down.
scottl is offline  
Old February 26, 2013, 10:52 AM   #55
Rick F
Member
 
Join Date: October 2, 2012
Posts: 71
Quote:
Some larger, better detailed pics would help show off what you not happy with.But going by what you've got here it looks like finish was rubbed during assembly or take down.

Hi Scott. thanks for the reply. I enlarged the picture to show the flaws on the outside. Basically the one on the left is the one that really bothers me. Makes me worry that if it went out with such an obvious mistake, what else is wrong?






__________________
Sig P220 Elite Stainless .45 /// H&K P30L 9mm /// Kimber Eclipse Target II .45 /// S&W 686+ 5" Pro /// Walther PPS 9mm /// SA MC Operator .45 /// LMT MRP w/ACOG TA11HG /// Ruger Scout w/Nikon /// Benelli Nova Tactical 12g /// EVO X & S2000
Rick F is offline  
Old February 27, 2013, 01:29 PM   #56
ShipWreck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,743
Sorry to hear you are having all these problems. I previously owned one and it was a fantastic gun!
ShipWreck is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 04:27 PM   #57
Rick F
Member
 
Join Date: October 2, 2012
Posts: 71
Thanks Shipwreck. For the past few days, Springfield has been ignoring my questions, so I don't know what's going on.

I have a question for you guys. My friend also told me they didn't even bother finishing the barrel bushing, as the edges were very sharp enough to shave with. Is that normal for a SA 1911? Due to my lack of experience with 1911s, I just thought that's how SA does it. My Kimber, and a few others I looked at locally the other day are not like that.

UPDATE

ANYWAY, I just called them. They haven't had time to look at it yet, so there are no answers on the "what went wrong front." They said all of their inventory is designated to retailers at the moment, so it will likely be a few months until they are to replace it. They will most likely be able to issue me a refund (not sure if tax and NICS will be refunded too) by the end of next week, but this is not confirmed yet.
__________________
Sig P220 Elite Stainless .45 /// H&K P30L 9mm /// Kimber Eclipse Target II .45 /// S&W 686+ 5" Pro /// Walther PPS 9mm /// SA MC Operator .45 /// LMT MRP w/ACOG TA11HG /// Ruger Scout w/Nikon /// Benelli Nova Tactical 12g /// EVO X & S2000

Last edited by Rick F; February 28, 2013 at 05:07 PM.
Rick F is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 05:08 PM   #58
RickB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2000
Location: Western WA
Posts: 5,745
Quote:
I would not own a repainted car (unless it's a custom hotrod) as the finish is never as good as the original OEM. Should I be concerned with that here?
Until a car has been sold for the first time, it's a new car. Cars are damaged in the dealer's parking lots all the time, they have the cars repaired and sell them as new, with no requirement that they reveal the damage.
Some new-gun warranties specifically do not cover cosmetics, and if Springfield determines that worn paint is only a cosmetic issue, they may not want to fix it.
That said, they do have top-notch customer service, so I'd expect them to do the repair so the slide and frame don't rub.
RickB is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 05:32 PM   #59
Rick F
Member
 
Join Date: October 2, 2012
Posts: 71
Hi Rick,

It was more than just cosmetic. The wear of the finish was indicative of the fact that the frame wasn't machined right, so it was re-machined, and the frame/slide were re-fit.

They "repaired" it, and sent it back like the pictures above (page 3). I know SA is a sacred cow, but I wouldn't call that top not customer service when they return it like they did. Then again, I had a good example with SIG, whom many have complain about.
__________________
Sig P220 Elite Stainless .45 /// H&K P30L 9mm /// Kimber Eclipse Target II .45 /// S&W 686+ 5" Pro /// Walther PPS 9mm /// SA MC Operator .45 /// LMT MRP w/ACOG TA11HG /// Ruger Scout w/Nikon /// Benelli Nova Tactical 12g /// EVO X & S2000
Rick F is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 06:05 PM   #60
RickB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2000
Location: Western WA
Posts: 5,745
Those last pics show what definitely appears to be damage? Even if it's not rubbing anymore, those little dings around the front of the frame don't look like anything that should be on a freshly repaired frame.
RickB is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 06:17 PM   #61
Rick F
Member
 
Join Date: October 2, 2012
Posts: 71
Quote:
Those last pics show what definitely appears to be damage? Even if it's not rubbing anymore, those little dings around the front of the frame don't look like anything that should be on a freshly repaired frame.
Indeed. That's why I'm getting frustrated. I just can't believe that they would send it to me in that condition, knowing QC screwed up in the first place. I would've made sure everything is perfect before sending it back if I was them. Then, they can't be bothered to send me a new gun, because they have more important customers, etc. I'm beginning to take it personally. I guess I am better off with a refund, granted they pay back the tax. I'm mad I wasted a people's republic of NJ pistol permit on this. I'll be waiting a few months for another one now.

Anyway, thanks for looking and providing feedback.
__________________
Sig P220 Elite Stainless .45 /// H&K P30L 9mm /// Kimber Eclipse Target II .45 /// S&W 686+ 5" Pro /// Walther PPS 9mm /// SA MC Operator .45 /// LMT MRP w/ACOG TA11HG /// Ruger Scout w/Nikon /// Benelli Nova Tactical 12g /// EVO X & S2000

Last edited by Rick F; March 2, 2013 at 12:41 PM.
Rick F is offline  
Old February 28, 2013, 08:12 PM   #62
HKFan9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2008
Posts: 2,731
The edges on SA factory guns on smaller parts are pretty well known to be a little on the sharp side. In all fairness these are standard production guns, not semi custom or custom 1911's. The slide release on my SA Mil-Spec back in the day was like a razor. I took a patch and a little flitz polish and smoothed it out in 2 minutes and was not concerned with it.

I understand your frustrated but the edges on a barrel bushing would be the least on my worries on a standard production 1911... not trying to be snark either. Unfortunately we don't live in a day where every gun is hand fitted, and raw materials are a lot more expensive, so corners ARE cut to keep the consumers happy. I can refer you to a hand built Wilson Combat 1911 with a rail or any other custom shop build that would cost 3-4x as much as your SA.

It sucks you got a lemon, I can relate on that, but least they are willing to refund you the $$ since they cannot keep up with current demand. That is a lot more than most other gun mfg's would even do.

I know you probably still aren't happy with the outcome, but I think they are trying their best for you. Though I can't comment on what happened when it was in for repair, I have never see a gun come back from SA to my shop with anything wrong with it.
HKFan9 is offline  
Old March 1, 2013, 11:52 AM   #63
Rick F
Member
 
Join Date: October 2, 2012
Posts: 71
Hi HKFAN9. Indeed the sharpness of the barrel bushing is the least of my worries. I was just asking if that is normal. My 1911-expert friend looked it over, and just started rattling off a bunch of corners they cut putting it back together. To be honest, all of the other things he brought up slipped my mind, or I didn't know what he was referencing. He said judging by the lack of care for what he has seen, he expects a lack of care on the inside as well. He brought his most low-end beater pistol, a RIA 1911 for comparison, which he purchased for $300, to use as a minimum benchmark. He said the SA did not pass.

My concern is with the damage on the frame, and the groove running down it. SA told me that groove is normal, and happens during assembly and when the barrel moves when fired. Others with this same gun told me that is BS.

Should I let them try to fix this gun one more time? Or has this become unsalvageable?
__________________
Sig P220 Elite Stainless .45 /// H&K P30L 9mm /// Kimber Eclipse Target II .45 /// S&W 686+ 5" Pro /// Walther PPS 9mm /// SA MC Operator .45 /// LMT MRP w/ACOG TA11HG /// Ruger Scout w/Nikon /// Benelli Nova Tactical 12g /// EVO X & S2000
Rick F is offline  
Old March 2, 2013, 03:08 AM   #64
HKFan9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2008
Posts: 2,731
To speak honestly, to me... it seems mostly cosmetic. I work in a gun smith shop (I'm a paperwork jockey not one of the smiths.) I see a lot of stupid careless mistakes like this daily (not referring to you.) Sadly SA is usually one of the best companies I deal with for repairs and warranty work.

To me.. this looks like in the rush of things.. whoever worked on your gun.. was hurrying and carelessly dinged the front of your frame when reassembling it. The scuff mark.. I do see a lot on certain guns with these "Armory Kote" or other Cerakote like finishes. Usually what I see is the gun was fitted properly with bare metal and once the finish is applied the tolerances tighten up and wear some. With out seeing it in person... even with your high res photos I cannot tell if this is your problem or not.

I know its frustrating, specially after dropping the amount of cash you did on it. My champion operator is one of my favorite 1911's. I would say send it back with detailed notes and calmly explain you find it unacceptable and would like it repaired. Yelling at CS reps... though can make you feel great for a moment, generally doesn't help any matters.

SA generally is a good company, and even though it seems they might have dropped the ball for you on this one, I would see what they are willing to do. If you personally can't trust this gun again, and they offer you the refund, I would take it, and buy something else on your wish list. It is very rare I see a MFG offer a cash refund on a firearm, so I think they are trying to do what they can to please you.
HKFan9 is offline  
Old March 12, 2013, 11:19 AM   #65
Rick F
Member
 
Join Date: October 2, 2012
Posts: 71
Hi HKFAN9,

SA has stopped answering my emails. I took a kind, professional tone, but nonetheless, I suppose they don't have the time to assist with my situation. I'm not sure if they are sending me a refund, or a new pistol, or anything at all for that matter. Does anyone have a supervisor contact?
__________________
Sig P220 Elite Stainless .45 /// H&K P30L 9mm /// Kimber Eclipse Target II .45 /// S&W 686+ 5" Pro /// Walther PPS 9mm /// SA MC Operator .45 /// LMT MRP w/ACOG TA11HG /// Ruger Scout w/Nikon /// Benelli Nova Tactical 12g /// EVO X & S2000
Rick F is offline  
Old March 22, 2013, 09:44 AM   #66
Rick F
Member
 
Join Date: October 2, 2012
Posts: 71
RESOLVED

SA did not have any MC Operators available, and they don't have time to check one over before sending it out, so they sent me a refund for the price I paid, plus tax & NICS. I suppose this is the best case scenario.

On a side note-
I found a SIG P229 classic .22 online. I asked the retailer if it had the new style E2 grips. They emailed me back stating they do indeed. While I was waiting for their response, I called SIG and asked which models come with the new E2 grips. The CS rep I spoke with said they all match the picture in their 2013 PDF catalogue if the manufacture date is 1/1/13 or after. I ordered the pistol and had it shipped. It arrived at my FFL, and as my luck would have it, they had the old style grips. I called SIG to see if all new models had the upgraded manspring, trigger bar, and de-cocker necessary to fit the new grips. I wanted to know if I needed to order them as well. They said it is likely not to if it had the old grips, and they decided to send me the full replacement kit for free to ship out with the caliber x-change kit I ordered. Needless to say, I'm glad I purchased another pistol from a manufacturer I can rely on.
__________________
Sig P220 Elite Stainless .45 /// H&K P30L 9mm /// Kimber Eclipse Target II .45 /// S&W 686+ 5" Pro /// Walther PPS 9mm /// SA MC Operator .45 /// LMT MRP w/ACOG TA11HG /// Ruger Scout w/Nikon /// Benelli Nova Tactical 12g /// EVO X & S2000
Rick F is offline  
Old March 22, 2013, 09:15 PM   #67
ShipWreck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,743
Good to hear that you are getting a refund. Wow.
ShipWreck is offline  
Old March 23, 2013, 01:24 PM   #68
Venom1956
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2008
Location: WI
Posts: 3,026
any news where I can buy this 'blem' gun?
__________________
E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system.- Yeah I can do that.
I guarantee you will know it if a bicyclist hits your house going 1000 mph.
Venom1956 is offline  
Old March 24, 2013, 01:25 AM   #69
Will Beararms
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 1999
Location: North Texas
Posts: 2,700
Yes I think there was some poor machine work on that pistol but every 1911 I have ever owned had rub marks on one area or another. Every Sig I have owned had wear marks from the slide in the aluminum frame rails. All my Glocks either pig nose or the RSA scratches the frame near the locking block.
__________________
"Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second."
-- Aron Bielski
Will Beararms is offline  
Old March 24, 2013, 10:59 AM   #70
ragwd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 20, 2006
Posts: 899
Rick , you indeed have had a dark cloud over your experience with Springfield. Sorry, my loaded model is flawless in appearance and function. wishng you better luck with your next purchase. Also I certainly hope that all the Kimber kickers have read this thread, see it happens to all of us .
ragwd is offline  
Old March 25, 2013, 09:33 AM   #71
Rick F
Member
 
Join Date: October 2, 2012
Posts: 71
I would like to thank everyone for your comments, suggestions, and kind words.
__________________
Sig P220 Elite Stainless .45 /// H&K P30L 9mm /// Kimber Eclipse Target II .45 /// S&W 686+ 5" Pro /// Walther PPS 9mm /// SA MC Operator .45 /// LMT MRP w/ACOG TA11HG /// Ruger Scout w/Nikon /// Benelli Nova Tactical 12g /// EVO X & S2000
Rick F is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11747 seconds with 7 queries