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Old February 7, 2013, 09:19 AM   #26
scottl
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Your worried about having a refinished gun but yet your willing to get it checkered?

I see no problem with them charging people return shipping if the gun goes to custom shop after warranty repairs.Why should the free warranty ship/return cover on your custom work?

You can go to any of the 1911 dedicated forums and learn that this has been Springfield's policy for awhile.

And the repair shop and custom shop are twp separate animals.
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Old February 7, 2013, 10:59 AM   #27
Rick F
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Your worried about having a refinished gun but yet your willing to get it checkered?

I see no problem with them charging people return shipping if the gun goes to custom shop after warranty repairs.Why should the free warranty ship/return cover on your custom work?

You can go to any of the 1911 dedicated forums and learn that this has been Springfield's policy for awhile.

And the repair shop and custom shop are twp separate animals.
I don't want the gun refinished. I prefer a new one with a frame that's actually shaped right. I'm assuming that they are just going to refinish this one. If they do refinish the defective one, I figured I might as well get the checkering done.

Custom shop is the same machine shop as the repair shop. They are 2 different teams in a hierarchical sense. In the email she stated that all of their regular, non-custom guns that have checkering are done in the same place.
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Old February 7, 2013, 11:59 AM   #28
JED1177
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and besides....

who ever decided to start painting guns? Geez....

We learned a long time ago that two metal surfaces rubbing on each other will wear the softest of the two. If they are both the same hardness, they gall.

Is it just me, or why would anyone be amazed that paint would wear off?


As far a Springfield Armory, they have a very good service department and a reputation to go with it. You need to talk to Dave. I have known him for years and he has personally handled all of my tuning, repairs, etc without fault. You either leave 100% satisfied or he stays on it until you are.

But then again, I don't buy painted pistols.
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Old February 7, 2013, 12:46 PM   #29
Rick F
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who ever decided to start painting guns? Geez....

We learned a long time ago that two metal surfaces rubbing on each other will wear the softest of the two. If they are both the same hardness, they gall.

Is it just me, or why would anyone be amazed that paint would wear off?
Hi Jed. My issue is that the finish or paint wore off before I even fired it. It is a sympton of the fact that the frame is not shaped right. I know I should have taken better pics, but I drew a little pic to show the issue.

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Old February 7, 2013, 03:20 PM   #30
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I feel your pain...

and we are cut from the same cloth on fit and finish. I have always cringed at the finish wearing off the sides of my grip safety, so I can be correctly accused of being "anal".

I toyed with a "painted" Springfield Armory but realized that type of coating will not compare to nickel or better yet, stainless. I'm obviously "old school".

As far as your drawing, I agree with you 100%. Even with close inspection at time of purchase, these things are hard to catch. Knowing Dave as I do, I think with your explanation, he will make it right. He has a reputation of that type of customer service.

Unrelated. but along the same lines, one thing I learned years ago about Berettas is to sight down the top of the barrel and ensure there is the same amount of light showing on each side were the barrel passes thru the front of the slide. If the tolerance is not the same on both sides, you will end up with a barrel that will lose its finish where it rides, not unlike your issue with the SA.

Insist on talking to Dave and keep us updated on your outcome.
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Old February 7, 2013, 04:00 PM   #31
Rick F
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^ Thanks for the reply Jed. That's what I love about the finish on my SIG- bead-blasted stainless. I'm tired of working on this- I'm giving up. This isn't a regular warranty issue. This is a clear failure of quality control. Shouldn't someone inspect the frame as it's assembled? I measured it with a caliper and it's clearly off.

All I wanted was:
- SA to machine the damn front strap for whatever charge they ask
- Refinish and ship back free, as it would under warranty if I didn't get it checkered.
- Have this done within around 2-3 weeks

If I want this service, I will have to pay for a refinish, shipping, and the checkering, plus wait 16- 18 weeks to get this POS back.

Apparently my simple request makes me an unreasonable SOB in their book. Now I get the "I said you shoulda bought the HK USP .45" from the fiance. I wish I never bought this POS.
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Old February 8, 2013, 12:21 AM   #32
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What your going to learn, or what you are running into... is the literal fact that Springfield and Springfields' custom shop... are generally two separate entities entirely almost.

What is pretty much happening is they will inspect your frame in the Repair shop... if it is that bad out of spec they will replace the frame.. if it can be fixed they will re-fit it, polish it, and refinish in the repair center.. and send it back free of charge... in approximately the quoted time.

I understand your point of if you wanted custom work done why refinish the gun in the first place... but you have to understand.. this isn't your local gun smith or even a small custom 1911 shop. They are a corporation... and they run it like one, that can be good and bad. They have that policy and return around time for the custom shop because they will be dealing with THOUSANDS of guns. Where as the "smiths" in the warranty repair center.. are no where near the smiths in the custom shop... and generally they probably don't let the two mix often.

I understand you want your issue fixed, and the work done at once, but really you must understand as a business stance... sometimes its not fisable dealing with the scale they work with, especially with EVERYONE in the industry on Red Alert at the moment. No custom shop would have the turn around time your asking for right now, generally speaking. My local 1911 smith is a GREAT guy.. but hes backed up 6 months at the month. So you should be lucky SA is even quoting a time frame at the moment.


However since you seem to hate the gun... I would take it off your hands for $500 if your interested, would go nice with my Champion Operator.

Last edited by HKFan9; February 8, 2013 at 12:27 AM.
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Old February 8, 2013, 11:11 AM   #33
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Dealing with any customer service can be a pain right now but if you had to choose one Springfield's is one of the best. It may take a while but they will do you right in the end.

And hey, if you don't want it when you get it back I'd be willing to put in $900 for it. It would go great with my customized Springfield GI and Sig Scorpion.
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Old February 13, 2013, 11:19 AM   #34
Rick F
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2/13/13 update

I emailed SA asking for an update. I received a phone a phone call from a nice woman who went over a few things with me. She said a tech has started working on it, but he is going to be out for a few days. They like to keep the same tech with the gun, so I should expect to get further clarity in about 10 days or so.

She said that if they can get it to work, I'll be getting the same gun back. The rails have to be adjusted or straightened or something, the frame and slide has to be refit, the grip safety has to be refit, and the thumb safety has to be refit. Then it will be refinished. I wonder how much integrity I'm going to lose here. Hopefully it's not like a car getting repaired after an accident where the frame was bent.

I asked her about the clandestine "Custom Shop" and the repair center. They are the same place, but work under a different hierarchy. They may or may not be the same techs. She wasn't sure.
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Old February 13, 2013, 11:36 AM   #35
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To Rick F,

I wouldn't worry too much about it. If they have a single person do all the adjusting/hand fitting, they must care about the end result. What does boggle me is the cost involved in doing so, which they are eating. It would be cheaper to give you a brand new pistol. I am the QC manager in a parts manufacturing facility, and I have an idea of what these kinds of things cost.

I assume they will test fire the gun to ensure functionality/safety before sending it back to you. What I would ask them is if they will have someone competent see what kinds of groups the pistol gives AFTER the work is done.

My $.02
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Old February 13, 2013, 11:56 AM   #36
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@ Rick F,

Your illustration is the exact same malformity that I had when I bought my DW Guardian. I found it at a gunshow for $1K and jumped at it only to find once I brought it home that it had a good 1/4" scratch in the front left of the slide. (I assume they knew about the flaw, hence the great price). The frame had too much metal right where yours was. Anyways, the Para customer service I had gone through before had left a bad taste in my mouth so I went to the guys I bought it from which, by sheer luck, was very close to where I live and have an in-house smith. I showed them the flaw and they sanded, polished and re-finished it within a week and has been flawless ever since.

This was a year ago, BTW so lead times were normal.
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Old February 13, 2013, 11:56 AM   #37
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Thanks Soilwork. I can't believe it had so many issues. I'm glad I never fired it. Regardless, I'm bummed about the situation, as it obviously lost a great bit of value. Will realigning the rails (I forgot the actual term) cause the gun to loosen up? And will they bend the slide on an angle to compensate? I've seen tightened pistols like that, where people have crushed them in a vise, and I will be pretty ****** if it looks that sloppy. Despite the few months it would take to acquire a new pistol permit, I'd prefer a new one, regardless of the cost or man hours.

She also mentioned that their repair department has been going crazy recently. Even though there has been a mass buying spree since Obama was re-elected, and the Sandy shooting, warranty and repairs should be residual. It should take at least a year for the increase in sales to catch up with the increase in repair work. This leads me to believe they've been rushing their product to market without an adequate QC in place.
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Old February 13, 2013, 12:03 PM   #38
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"Bend the slide to compensate"? "Crush it in a vise"??

Dude, your gun is **at the factory**, not "Rocco's School of Handgun Repair".

There's no reason to believe that your gun is going to leave the factory in anything other than perfect shape. In fact, it's probably going to get about ten times as much personal love and attention as any random gun off the line.
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Old February 13, 2013, 12:05 PM   #39
Rick F
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^ Thank CAZ

Good to know I'm not the first to have this problem (misery loves company?) It looks like mine had more issues than just that. That's why I'm concerned. I also paid full MSRP for mine. My local shop told me to send it back to SA myself as their customer service treats end consumers better than shops. Maybe that was a nice way to tell me to go f myself?

If they had that gun at the shop as a "special" and they sent it back to SA for repair, I wouldn't pay more than $800 for it. At this point, when it comes back to me, even if it comes back in proper form, I'm still going to feel a** raped for all the effort and time for it for the amount I paid.
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Old February 13, 2013, 12:09 PM   #40
Rick F
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Quote:
"Bend the slide to compensate"? "Crush it in a vise"??

Dude, your gun is **at the factory**, not "Rocco's School of Handgun Repair".

There's no reason to believe that your gun is going to leave the factory in anything other than perfect shape. In fact, it's probably going to get about ten times as much personal love and attention as any random gun off the line.

I took this pic from another forum. This is what SACS did to refit his frame on his TRP:

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Old February 13, 2013, 12:14 PM   #41
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I don't have another TRP to compare it to, so I'm not sure what I'm looking at. Are the tops of the frame rails not supposed to be rounded like that? Or is he just upset about the gap between the extractor and the slide? I'm not a gunsmith, but the slide/frame fit actually looks okay to me.
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Old February 13, 2013, 12:22 PM   #42
Rick F
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I don't have another TRP to compare it to, so I'm not sure what I'm looking at. Are the tops of the frame rails not supposed to be rounded like that? Or is he just upset about the gap between the extractor and the slide? I'm not a gunsmith, but the slide/frame fit actually looks okay to me.
How the frame rails are bent down to make it tighter.
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Old February 13, 2013, 12:23 PM   #43
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Ah, gotcha. Thanks.
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Old February 13, 2013, 01:15 PM   #44
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How the frame rails are bent down to make it tighter.

That is something...

That's the kind of "repair" you would do to a 10 year old lawnmower to get it running again.

Total horse sh**. I would add that bending the rails on a hardened receiver might lead to stress fractures later. I bet if you did that yourself it would void the warranty.
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Old February 13, 2013, 02:16 PM   #45
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That's the second time I've heard of a crap TRP come out of SA. I've seen on another forum where a reputable smith took pictures of the fitting and beveling he had to do to make one right. I'm just really surprised that, for the money you spend and reputation SA has, the TRP should have little if any flaws. I know that as a mass producer and manufacturer, there will be flaws come out of Q/C but I consider their TRP and Loaded models their top-of-the-line models out of their catalog. Makes me think twice about that TRP Operator on my To-Own list. Always wanted a full rail TRP.
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Old February 13, 2013, 07:18 PM   #46
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I'd really like a picture where i can see the actual wear on the gun? Not saying its not there but I'm curious.
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Old February 14, 2013, 01:42 AM   #47
Auto426
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Quote:
I took this pic from another forum. This is what SACS did to refit his frame on his TRP:
That's an old school method of tightening the slide to frame fit on a 1911. There's nothing wrong with it and smiths have been doing it for decades.

Quote:
If they had that gun at the shop as a "special" and they sent it back to SA for repair, I wouldn't pay more than $800 for it. At this point, when it comes back to me, even if it comes back in proper form, I'm still going to feel a** raped for all the effort and time for it for the amount I paid.
You haven't even fired a single round from the gun yet. Slight slide rubs are not uncommon, and from what I read every time you send a gun into Springfield for a single issue they have a tendency to "fix" more than what is actually wrong with the gun.
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Old February 14, 2013, 01:49 AM   #48
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Seems to me you bought a gun that you really didn't like as you already had reservations about SA to begin with. The turn around time estimate you got seems pretty damn good IMO considering all the insanity/demand currently. I know of a Glock that took over 6 months for a grip reduction...

I've had some time with a TRP Full railed operator and let me tell you Armory Kote (no offense to anyone) isn't much to get worked up over, isn't very pretty, durable, or special. It is easy to maintain and touch up. You bought a workin' mans gun IMO. Its built for use not looks. Kinda like complaining that the tree branches you thru in scratched your truck bed. If it really bothers you get a better coating to protect it. There are like a billion options.

I'm sure if there is an issue with the gun SA will take care of it to the best of their ability.
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Old February 14, 2013, 12:12 PM   #49
Rick F
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That's an old school method of tightening the slide to frame fit on a 1911. There's nothing wrong with it and smiths have been doing it for decades.
How many times can you do that to a frame/slide? Once? Twice? I plan on keeping all of my firearms for life. If this has to be done now, it means its one less time I could do this in the future.

Quote:
Seems to me you bought a gun that you really didn't like as you already had reservations about SA to begin with.
Not at all. I searched for one for a few months, and finally tracked it down and paid full MSRP.

Quote:
The turn around time estimate you got seems pretty damn good IMO considering all the insanity/demand currently. I know of a Glock that took over 6 months for a grip reduction...
Sorry my pics suck. Your Glock example is for custom work. One should expect to wait, as one bought the product with that in mind. My situation is to get a product that fell through the QC cracks repaired so it can pass a QC test.

Quote:
I've had some time with a TRP Full railed operator and let me tell you Armory Kote (no offense to anyone) isn't much to get worked up over, isn't very pretty, durable, or special. It is easy to maintain and touch up. You bought a workin' mans gun IMO. Its built for use not looks. Kinda like complaining that the tree branches you thru in scratched your truck bed. If it really bothers you get a better coating to protect it. There are like a billion options.
This is a gun that's flawed from the factory. It is not just the finish- that is the sympton I found to see the frame was not properly machined. The slide/frame fit is the equivalent of the "square peg in the round hole." It's $1500 out the door. Would you buy a brand new truck at full sticker price that was keyed along the flanks because you planned on using it asa work truck? Really?
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Old February 14, 2013, 01:07 PM   #50
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How many times can you do that to a frame/slide? Once? Twice? I plan on keeping all of my firearms for life. If this has to be done now, it means its one less time I could do this in the future.
The cost of the ammo to wear the gun out to the point where the slide and frame are so loose that the gun no longer functions properly would easily buy you a dozen or so new TRPs.
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