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Old January 26, 2013, 01:13 PM   #1
Jayster
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Possible straw sale entrapment attempt?

I was at a local walmart a few weeks back looking at a Ruger 10/22. Couldn't get it at the time because they had a problem with my driver's license which is another story but has been worked out.

Anyway there was a guy nearby sort of hanging around the counter browsing and he overheard the conversation about my not being able to get the Ruger that day.

He started talking about how he had a bunch of AR's and was willing to sell some. He also was talking about his brother who built them, etc. Really into the AR theme....

I asked him what he thought about the Feinstein bill he said he knew nothing about it. I thought that was a bit strange given his being into guns and AR's so much.

Anyway as I started to leave he followed me down an aisle and said he was willing to buy the Ruger for me, saying explicitly that he knew it would be a straw sale but he was willing to help me out. Now the alarms are really going off in my head. I say no thanks that that kind of thing is what gives legal owners a bad name and I get away from him quick.

My thinking was:
1. He was all into guns and ARs but didn't know anything about the proposed ban legislation.
2. He made the offer the sell the AR.
3. He made the offer to do a straw sale on the Ruger knowing it was a straw sale and making sure that I knew it would be a straw sale.
5. He looked like he was trying to look the part of a gun guy, wearing a vest and boots but I swear he looked to me like he'd be better suited to sitting behind a desk.

What do you think?
Possible ATF guy or other LEO agency?

Run into anything like this that made you think the same?
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Old January 26, 2013, 01:36 PM   #2
horatioo
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Entrapment like that is not legal. What possible reason would a guy have to offer to commit a felony for a complete stranger?

I think you should call the police now. No harm to the guy if he was just being nice but dumb, since he is long gone.
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Old January 26, 2013, 01:44 PM   #3
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Quote:
Entrapment like that is not legal.
That just means they can't ultimately get a conviction; they can still put you through the wringer.

Maybe you weren't the target of the sting, they might have been after Walmart.
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Old January 26, 2013, 01:56 PM   #4
Microgunner
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Originally Posted by zxcvbob
Maybe you weren't the target of the sting, they might have been after Walmart.
This seems to me the more likely scenario.
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Old January 26, 2013, 01:58 PM   #5
Willie Sutton
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^^ This was obviously a kook, not a law enforcement effort.

No fruit of any tree planted like that would hold up in any court, anyplace. It is what it seemed to be on it's face: Some nut walking around in Walmart.


Willie

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Old January 26, 2013, 02:56 PM   #6
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No fruit of any tree planted like that would hold up in any court, anyplace. It is what it seemed to be on it's face: Some nut walking around in Walmart.
Or a Bloomberger.
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Old January 26, 2013, 03:08 PM   #7
tyme
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I would have played a game with him, asked him for his badge number. If he looked aghast, then would have tried to cajole him into showing his ID, just for fun. He might think (irrationally) that showing his ID would put you at ease. Take a picture of it with your cell phone, then you either have the agent's ID, or you have the ID of a moron who was willing to violate federal law. Also, if he had had to reach for his wallet, he might have uncovered a concealed weapon or badge.

If it was a sting, it was poorly done, but I don't know if it would be considered entrapment in court. Entrapment is a lot more limited than is commonly thought. Since he made explicit that it would be a straw sale, and made sure you knew that, that might be enough to make it not entrapment. If you know what you're doing is illegal and the agent provocateur doesn't have to push you to do it, but merely suggests it and you agree, that's not necessarily entrapment as I understand it. But IANAL.
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Old January 26, 2013, 04:03 PM   #8
Jayster
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One thing for sure, it was strange and I wasn't going there.

I thought about playing along/messing with him, but then I thought they aren't people to mess with.

Maybe it was a walmart thing. Maybe it was a kook. Might not have been anything at all. Who knows.

I try to stay away from kooks, potential ATF and Bloombergers if at all possible.

Yeah. If I had done it knowing it was a straw I think my ass would have been grass.
Walmart AM mentioned the ATF had been there in December going over records.
Might not mean a thing but still, with the gun climate like it is I think we all need to be careful out there.
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Old January 26, 2013, 04:11 PM   #9
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Could have been one of those undercover TV crews trying to make hay.
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Old January 26, 2013, 04:31 PM   #10
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I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the guy was LE.
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Old January 26, 2013, 05:32 PM   #11
Nasty
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Not a Blue operation...more likely a local news crew looking to make news supporting the liberal side.
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Old January 27, 2013, 09:59 PM   #12
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Sounds like a set up of some kind. Regardless of who is doing it the goal isn't to catch you. The goal is to put it in the media that Walmart is "Selling illegal guns"
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Old January 27, 2013, 10:20 PM   #13
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"selling illegal guns", or "selling guns illegally"? There is a distinction.
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Old January 27, 2013, 11:04 PM   #14
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My vote goes to undercover LEO sting.
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Old January 27, 2013, 11:13 PM   #15
shootniron
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Feinstein bill...had not even been introduced a few weeks ago. ????

He might have been a TROLL....
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Old January 28, 2013, 09:22 AM   #16
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If it smells bad, it is.
You were wise to just walk away. Guessing what he was or might have been does no good.
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Old January 28, 2013, 10:14 AM   #17
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What Riflemen said.

They bust people here in Illinois often enough to keep it fresh in your mind. They nailed some guy for not abiding by the 24 hour waiting period when selling a shotgun in an ISP sting. The sting was in a ruralish area more than an hour outside Chicago. Not where you would expect such.

Abide by all State and Federal laws, you never know when the person standing opposite you is a Fed running a sting. Especially as gun control efforts fail in the congress, expert a lot more stings so the President can be shown to "do something about gun violence".
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:43 AM   #18
HK_Flo
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Interesting.

I am going to have to go with crazy guy at walmart though, but let me share my crazy guy at walmart story.

I was driving to chicago last week, decided to try and stop at walmart along the way to find some .22lr

There is some guy talking at length to the gun counter person about shotguns when I walk up. I ask if they have any 22. Nope of course not. Then the customer standing there offers that he has some .22 back at his farm that he would sell me.

Now I am not an Illinois resident so I don't have a FIOD card. I couldn't find any concrete answer if it was legal for me to buy ammo there but I thought hey why not try? IDK how a private sale of ammo is handled there.

I turned him down since I was in a hurry and I just generally got a creepy vibe from the dude and didn't want to end up as pig feed.

Don't know if it was just some dude trying to be helpful but I thought it was interesting you just ran into another "helpful" guy trying to help you possibly skirt the law.

/tinfoil
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:45 AM   #19
DAVID NANCARROW
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Attempting to entice someone into committing a felony is in fact a felony itself.
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Old January 28, 2013, 01:16 PM   #20
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The Walmart in Lexington, TN, gave up their FFL last week. An associate apparently wasn't following company policies, but I've not heard what they did wrong from any news source. There was a comment on another article that they had allowed a straw sale, but that was a random person and not something from a journalist.
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Old January 28, 2013, 06:27 PM   #21
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or maybe the guy just behaved in an odd way? and that is all it was.
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Old January 28, 2013, 07:40 PM   #22
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I'm with white eagle. THis REEKS of LEO sting. Not all LEOs know anything about guns. His apparent lack of knowledge is a red flag to me.
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Old January 28, 2013, 08:10 PM   #23
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You did the right thing in declining the proosition made by the guy. I doubt it was a sting. Though the guy offered to break the law. I am not sure how I would have reacted. I have not bought a gun from Walmart since 1995. I am one of the wierd people that will pay a few dollars more to deal with a local shop with people that know me when I come through the door.(Kinda like Norm on Cheers at the local gun srore.) They know who I am, and besides I put my CHL down with the form 4473. No back ground check. I pay, and walk out the door with the gun.
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Old January 28, 2013, 09:58 PM   #24
DFrame
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I'm with white eagle. THis REEKS of LEO sting. Not all LEOs know anything about guns. His apparent lack of knowledge is a red flag to me.
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Old January 28, 2013, 10:04 PM   #25
Mr.Scott
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"selling illegal guns", or "selling guns illegally"? There is a distinction.
Do you even pay attention to the media in this country? They don't use factual info in headlines. They distort the facts and make the most sensational headline possible.
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