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Old January 28, 2013, 08:48 AM   #26
Patriot86
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I stay faaaarrrrr away from ranges during panic times. Lots of new shooters that don't have any training or experience. It really is putting your life in other's hands in that situation.
I am with you on this one Joe, I wanted to shoot my new PPQ bad so I went a couple of Fridays ago. LOTS of brand new gun owners and people who had guns in their nightstands for the last 20 years but never fired them. More women than normal too actually.

Thankfully at my range no one was hurt; the worst thing I have ever seen there is when someone pointed a fully loaded wheel gun at me while showing it off to his buddies.
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Old January 28, 2013, 09:30 AM   #27
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I remember I took a buddy of mine who was in the National Guard to the range so she could have the opportunity to shoot handguns. I "assumed" that she would have good range etiquette and safety procedures. Wrong! She was waving and flagging the weapons all over. Now, after serving in both the active and reserve components I thought this may happen. So, everything she did with those guns unloaded I asked her to tell me what she was doing. This kept her focused on the weapon.

I could not believe it when she said flagging did not matte as the gun was not loaded.

Golden Rule for all shooters "Treat all firearms as loaded." Accidents don't just happen, accidents are caused. There is simply no excuse IMO for an accidental discharge due to sloppy safety procedures by firearms user. I never keep guns ready to fire in the home unless it is a revolver. My first line of defense and warning is the dog. Hopefully that will give me the few seconds I will need to get my carry gun into operation.
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Old January 28, 2013, 09:44 AM   #28
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You could infer that the accidental shooter had non-existent trigger-finger training. (and several other deficiencies as well)

That's the single biggest thing I see newbies doing wrong - finger on the trigger at the wrong time. Because your finger goes there so naturally.....

Last training of a newbie I had her old the lower to my disassembled Glock with finger off the trigger to give it time to burn into her muscle memory that that is how you hold a gun.

We'll see if that helped next time we go shooting.
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Old January 28, 2013, 09:53 AM   #29
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Some freaking idiot accidentally discharged his firearm in the lobby of the range. He was apparently taking it out of it's case and fired it. I'm not sure where the bullet went but I think it ricocheted off the floor and up through the ceiling as dust was falling from the ceiling tiles after the discharge. This really just made me boil over with anger. At first I was shocked and a little shaken making sure no one was hit. then I just got angry.
1st off , one the main rules in gun handling/ownership is never touch the trigger until you are ready to fire. So why was this numb nuts having his hand near the trigger? Why was this guy unpacking his guns in the lobby instead of the firing lane? People need to think before they act when they are in possession of a deadly weapon. smh.. it just boils me over people's lack of respect and negligence.. .. there were kids at the range, families, etc. Thank God no one was hurt. A lady got a little shrapnel in her leg but no one was directly hit or seriously injured.

This is just a reminder that no matter how comfortable you are or laxed you become with a weapon. Safety is still a priority and should be taken seriously. The guy at the range said they had been there for 5 years and it's never happened. However, that's not good enough. It should not happen.
this is one of the reasons why I think a firearms safety course ought to be mandatory. say what you will but all it takes is one numb nuts to ruin a perfectly good day, and there are a lot of numb nuts out there. I don't trust anyone with a firearm that hasn't taken a safety course of some sort.
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Old January 28, 2013, 10:43 AM   #30
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Maybe it's a good time to stay away until the panic ends. Many new shooters so ranges better pay better attention to this influx of new shooter's before the News get their grubby fingers on accidents like this. Stay safe
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Old January 28, 2013, 10:50 AM   #31
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Much of my shooting is at a public range just a few minutes from the house. There are sometimes yayhoos who seem to immediately forget the safety they just watched (all new shooters have to watcha safety video). I haven't been since the GREAT PANIC OF OUGHT THIRTEEN but I am sure its full of them.

I'll probably be asked a bunch of questions again (this is fine), help out with a jam and or such and show the proper way (this is fine) get mad at people and getting the range guy if the'yre waiving pistols a little too close to the 180 (deal with it).

But it will settle down. Some of those yayhoos will turn into good shooters and the sport will increase.
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:09 AM   #32
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Too bad the guy didn't have someone to walk him through basic gun safety before going to the range. Any time I take a new shooter out to the range we spend more time going through basic safety than anything else.
At a very minimum, read the manual that came with your new gun. About half of all new manuals cover gun safety.
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:12 AM   #33
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My range has the rule: Take your gun out of the case only at the firing station, unload it and put it back in the bag before leaving the line. But if the shop is crowded and some doofus pulls a LOADED pistol out of a range bag in the shop area -- how's a rule going to prevent that?
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It won't. The rule can only justify kicking the guy out and maybe banning him for however long. But it will not prevent the moron from bringing a loaded gun into the lobby and having a stupid accident with it.

That's why so much of these new gun control laws are so stupid. They will prevent nothing and the bad part they are supposed to prevent are already punishable under current law so what's the point? Unless the point is the next step in someones process.
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:15 AM   #34
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The range owner just called me. He said the guy was sitting in a row of chairs waiting to enter the range. He had his gun in his bag and reached in the bag and grabbed the gun to pull the slide and discharged the gun.The gun discharged through his bag, hitting other ammo, hearing protection and then grazed the ladies leg I mentioned in the original post. Totally negligence on the gun owners part. He said they were now going to implement a check in policy and strictly enforce the already existing rule of no guns out or unholstered in the lobby. They also blew up a picture of the guy and put it on the wall as a reminder that he is lifetime banned and not allowed to ever shoot there again. He also said with this he's made bigger signs stating these rules and there will be a 0 tolerance policy on it. If you remove your weapon or unholster in the lobby you will be removed and banned. If you need gun smith service they unpack and unload your weapon. Not you. I am glad they took a proactive approach and a serious tone to this. He was very appreciative for my feedback and input. I am enjoying the hobby and sport of shooting. I don't want things like this to ruin it. So I feel a little better about the situation.


It's killing me not to be able to mulit-quote.. lol however, the above poster is right.. if you read the stinking manual the 3 main rules is scattered through out on almost every page as well.
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:32 AM   #35
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Unless the point is the next step in someones process.
That is what is really scary.
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:37 AM   #36
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gaseousclay, I would have no problem with a range requiring new shooters (to their facility) to take a safety course in order to use the range. Frankly, that might be a good thing.

Having the government require safety training for ownership is another matter. Too much potential for abuse (fees, course scheduling issues, you name it) and not much evidence to show that training would make a significant difference.
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:45 AM   #37
nixfix
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Hearing stories like this makes me glad I live 5 miles from the NRA range.
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Old January 28, 2013, 12:30 PM   #38
gaseousclay
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gaseousclay, I would have no problem with a range requiring new shooters (to their facility) to take a safety course in order to use the range. Frankly, that might be a good thing.

Having the government require safety training for ownership is another matter. Too much potential for abuse (fees, course scheduling issues, you name it) and not much evidence to show that training would make a significant difference.
in the case of firearm safety i'm not opposed to either a government program or a private program, so long as a new gun owner is familiar with firearm safety and proper gun etiquette. to me it's inexcusable that there are morons out there who have no business owning a gun, especially if they don't comprehend the basic rules of firearm safety. i'm 41, I took my firearm safety course through the DNR 2 yrs ago even though the law stipulated that I wasn't legally required to do so. I did it because of incidents like the OP mentioned. I didn't want to be that guy
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Old January 28, 2013, 12:33 PM   #39
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The range owner just called me. He said the guy was sitting in a row of chairs waiting to enter the range. He had his gun in his bag and reached in the bag and grabbed the gun to pull the slide and discharged the gun.The gun discharged through his bag, hitting other ammo, hearing protection and then grazed the ladies leg I mentioned in the original post. Totally negligence on the gun owners part. He said they were now going to implement a check in policy and strictly enforce the already existing rule of no guns out or unholstered in the lobby. They also blew up a picture of the guy and put it on the wall as a reminder that he is lifetime banned and not allowed to ever shoot there again. He also said with this he's made bigger signs stating these rules and there will be a 0 tolerance policy on it. If you remove your weapon or unholster in the lobby you will be removed and banned. If you need gun smith service they unpack and unload your weapon. Not you. I am glad they took a proactive approach and a serious tone to this. He was very appreciative for my feedback and input. I am enjoying the hobby and sport of shooting. I don't want things like this to ruin it. So I feel a little better about the situation.
i'm curious about the guy whose gun discharged - why was his gun loaded to begin with? I'm assuming this isn't common practice at a shooting range, right?
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Old January 28, 2013, 12:33 PM   #40
MLeake
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(Referring to post 38)

Good for you. From that, I can deduce that you had the money to pay any course fees DNR may have charged; you were able to obtain or provide your own transportation to wherever the course was held; you had no work nor family conflicts with the DNR course schedule.

To some people, any one of those factors could put such a course out of their reach.
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Old January 28, 2013, 01:05 PM   #41
gaseousclay
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Good for you. From that, I can deduce that you had the money to pay any course fees DNR may have charged; you were able to obtain or provide your own transportation to wherever the course was held; you had no work nor family conflicts with the DNR course schedule.

To some people, any one of those factors could put such a course out of their reach.
yes, I had the means to take the course on my own. the cost of the course was minimal.....a little over $20 from what I can remember. I also lucked out and managed to find a course being offered at a VFW relatively close to my house. The downside to the DNR course, classes fill up quickly and their locations can be out of the way depending on where you live. The other downside is that I took my course with a bunch of 10 year olds who were there with their parents. I manage to get a good laugh from my wife about it but it was a little embarrasing at the time as it was the only class I could get. but, I was there to learn about firearm safety and nothing more.

I think part of the problem is that there are some adults who think that taking a safety course is beneath them, or that they don't need training. people tend to get caught up in gun culture and just want to start shooting things and having fun. I get it. when I became interested in hunting I went out and bought a rifle almost immediately. but, after doing so I knew I had to take a firearm safety course if I was going to actually go hunting or handle a firearm. I know when my son is old enough to understand guns I will personally teach him firearm safety, but I will also enroll him in a safety course for good measure.
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Old January 28, 2013, 01:12 PM   #42
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As I have noted in other posts, I am a fan of training, and for that matter am a certified instructor.

The problem I have with "mandatory training" is, as I noted above, it is just not feasible for some people. This is a matter of economics, not attitude.

It may be money; it may be distance; it may be time. Any one could be an obstacle - and that is assuming the government entity responsible for the course does not deliberately set it up so people have trouble finding or attending a course.
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Old January 28, 2013, 01:24 PM   #43
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We all make mistakes, it is human nature. I've gotten my chops busted by the range personnel for forgetting to put my glasses back on and that could have meant, in the occasion that something went wrong with the gun, going blind.
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Old January 28, 2013, 01:51 PM   #44
ChasingWhitetail91
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I'm with Joe Pike, find yourself a buddy with a nice chunk of land and leave the unsafety of your ranges. I support people learning how to shoot and defend themselves, but do it away from me
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Old January 28, 2013, 02:00 PM   #45
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this is one of the reasons why I think a firearms safety course ought to be mandatory. say what you will but all it takes is one numb nuts to ruin a perfectly good day, and there are a lot of numb nuts out there.
It won't help. I've been to ranges where new customers have to watch a video. Folks roll their eyes and harrumph through the whole thing. It doesn't work.

I've seen trained LEO's have ND's. I had a competition shooter (and LEO) crank one off on a busy salesfloor. Another I know had one at home, in which the bullet traveled into his neighbor's house.

A mandatory class won't solve basic irresponsibility.
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Old January 28, 2013, 02:19 PM   #46
gaseousclay
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The problem I have with "mandatory training" is, as I noted above, it is just not feasible for some people. This is a matter of economics, not attitude.

It may be money; it may be distance; it may be time. Any one could be an obstacle - and that is assuming the government entity responsible for the course does not deliberately set it up so people have trouble finding or attending a course.
I suppose you're right. the only reason why I like the DNR safety courses is because they're inexpensive. but, the DNR relies on volunteers for their training courses. if it were a private/for-profit company I can foresee cost being a big factor for people. in this case you'd be paying trainers to instruct people, but their level of expertise might be better. I really don't know in either case.
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Old January 28, 2013, 03:14 PM   #47
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The range I go to most often (private indoor range) has absolutely no firearm or ammo handling in the lobby. It's a one strike and you're out rule. You can have it in a box, case or holster, but if it's in your hands...you're out. The only exception is when you are at the counter, and having an employee (gunsmith, or whatever) look at your gun, but even in that case, the employee clears it before letting you touch it.
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Old January 28, 2013, 03:20 PM   #48
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I used to be an instructor at our range. We get many new shooters from the Phoenix area. It is unbelievable what people will do. I have seen shells loaded backwards, but my favorite is when they turn to talk to you with a loaded gun pointed AT you, if you are not close enough to stop it, which I always try to be.
This is a funny post but very sad.
It's just like new drivers, don't know what they are doing.

This is why I wear BODY ARMOR LVL II W/2xtrama inserts.

I once saw two women (21-26 in ages) rented some guns, one was a Glock 23 in 40 cal. I saw her finish shooting and hes like I am out. I saw her place it on teh table, she removed the magazine but the trigger was still forward, meaning round in chamer/slide never locked back. I told her that it was still loaded, and shes like what? me about now, I just sit back and watch. The younger friend picks it up and racks the slide and says, oh its loaded.
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Old January 28, 2013, 08:04 PM   #49
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It was just an accident in which no one was seriously injured. Saying there is no excuse for it is like saying there is no excuse for getting in any kind of accident. The individual involved was certainly not using proper gun handling rules but I'm willing to bet that each and every one of us has at one time or another broken a gun safety rule. Hopefully this guy learned a valuable lesson and will never have it happen again.
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Old January 29, 2013, 11:14 AM   #50
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It was just an accident in which no one was seriously injured. Saying there is no excuse for it is like saying there is no excuse for getting in any kind of accident.
Accidents happen. When a firearm goes off when it's not supposed to, however, it's not an accident, it's negligence. The attitude that says, "Oh, it's just an accident" is the kind that minimizes the severity of what happened. It's what makes people complacent, and makes them do something stupid.

If that person had done everything exactly as he had done before, except someone got shot as a result, would you be throwing around the "It was just an accident"? Of course not. You'd probably say he was negligent. Negligence happens whether someone is hurt or not.

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The individual involved was certainly not using proper gun handling rules but I'm willing to bet that each and every one of us has at one time or another broken a gun safety rule.
Whether I have broken the rules or not is irrelevant. He broke them and his firearm discharged. I haven't had that happen. By the way, do you do dry fire practice? If you do, you're breaking at least 1 of the rules, and sometimes as many as 3 of them. Yet most professional shooters say dry fire is mandatory. The difference is not being negligent while handling a firearm, regardless of the rules...period.

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Hopefully this guy learned a valuable lesson and will never have it happen again.
That's a potentially expensive lesson. Someone could have been seriously hurt, or killed for it.
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