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Old January 22, 2013, 10:43 PM   #1
jabba21
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Can anyone tell me anything about this rifle?

Hello all, I'm new to the board and hoping to get some advice on a purchase.

I'm wanting to buy a black powder rifle and I really don't know much about them. Someone was wanting to sell me a Jukar .50 cal. I know they were made in Spain but that's about all I know. They are asking $125. Are these decent guns? Is that a fair price? Any info at all would be appreciated. Here is a picture of it. Thanks.

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Old January 23, 2013, 12:39 AM   #2
4V50 Gary
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Not a bad price for a starter gun. Note it has a two piece stock and no patch box.
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Old January 23, 2013, 01:06 AM   #3
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Can't be certain but it appears to be...

... A CVA percussion version of what they call a Kentucky Rifle.

I had one in .45 caliber which I built as a kit back in the day and another one also in .45 which was given to me by a friend who was tired of the muzzle loading scene.

I have owned three firearms from Jukar; those two wifles and a Colonial Pistol. I thought all were of consistent quality. The mated two piece stock is a compromise on the part of the manufacturer. They wanted to package the rifle in a shorter box and this meant the stock had to be jointed in the middle.

They were consistent shooters and much fun.

I agree with Gary that this is a good way to get into muzzle loading.

As regards price, I agree again with Gary that in good condition this is a decent price. I think it is entirely possible that you could find one for less money but frequently if we do a transaction with a friend we are reluctant to quibble over a coupla bucks. Good will is sometimes priceless. Give him the 125.00 and if you see it somewhere for a less money, don't tell him about it.

He may have some stuff to go with the rifle which will get you shooting and these things alone can be worth more than 60.00.

If the seller is just a casual acquaintence, you might check gunbroker.com and do a search for CVA Kentucky Rifle.

Undertand that this piece claims almost no commonalities with its namesake. The name given to it by CVA is as much a marketing compromise as the two piece stock.

I think everyone on this forum would be happy to hear that you bought the rifle and absolutely love it. So let us know how it goes.
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Old January 23, 2013, 01:43 AM   #4
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I just checked gunbroker out of curiosity....

There are no CVA Kentucky Rifles for sale.

BUT

There are three CVA percussion rifles which I think are worth knowing about. They are the Mountain Rifle (2) and the Frontier Rifle (1). All have bids in the 125.00 range and have some time to go before the auctions end.

In my opinion, these rifles are far more desirable than the CVA Kentucky. Three reasons:

1. The stocks are walnut instead of the blond colored stained wood that I saw in all kentuckys.

2, They are closer in appearance to a historical prototype than the CVA Kentucky.

3. Better sights.

Don't know what the final bid will be on the gunbroker rifles and of course there will be shipping on those rifles.

I suppose 125.00 is still a good price for that rifle.
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Old January 23, 2013, 05:36 AM   #5
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Get it. Doc whacha wanna bet that mountain rifle winds up at over 300?
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Old January 23, 2013, 06:23 AM   #6
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Hawg,

I have them on watch just to see where they go.
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Old January 23, 2013, 06:30 AM   #7
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Ooops

Just checked the listings and I called one of the listings a Mountain Rifle but it is a Plainsman,

One of the rifles had a "Buy it now" price of 120.00. That was exceeded and the bid now is 125.00

Tnx,
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Old January 23, 2013, 06:45 AM   #8
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Sheeesh...We are a little late on this but...

Welcome to the group.
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Old January 23, 2013, 08:02 AM   #9
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Thanks and thanks for the info. I'm still kind of looking around. The same person also has a Hawken for sale but they told me they really didn't have any idea about pricing it. They told me to throw out an offer so I just threw out $120 without knowing anything about them. They passed on that. I'll put up a picture of it. I like the look of it better than the Jukar. Do you think it would be a better gun? Also, what do you guys think would be another fair offer to give them on that? It's a .45 cal.

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Old January 23, 2013, 09:02 AM   #10
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I have a Hawken very similar to that one, I think I paid somewhere's in the neighborhood of $110-125 for it, I'd say either one would be fine. It's a repro anyways, so unless you are a complete stickler or getting paid to have a historically accurate piece who gives a S***. Truth is, both of them will give you a relatively equal amount of fun, and either can be had at let's say $125, and still be way more fun that what you would pay for a new Winchester at Walmart. Get the one from the friend now, you'll end up buying another rifle of some sort on Gunbroker anyways, lol!
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Old January 23, 2013, 09:22 AM   #11
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Ok, let's take a step back for a minute (have patience, this won't take long).

Condition. Condition is everything when talking price of black powder rifles, especially those which are used and several years old (CVA stopped making these rifles years ago).

They don't look bad at all from the pictures. But it's what's on the inside that counts the most. If the bore is badly pitted the barrel is junk and the rifle isn't worth $50. If the bore is pristine it may well be worth more than $175.

I suggest a bore inspection with a good bore light (about a $10 investment). That can tell you a great deal about the value of the gun. Second, remove the lock and inspect both the back (working) side for dirt and rust AND the wood underneath for dry rot, indicating it was left wet after cleaning. I'd also suggest removing the barrel and checking the stock barrel channel, but that's not practical on the CVA/Jukar Kentucky design.

With regard to the rifles on Gunbroker, obviously you can't do a hands on inspection before buying. That leads to my First Rule of Buying Used Guns Unseen:

NEVER, ever buy a used gun sight unseen without an iron-clad, guaranteed right to return the gun no-questions-asked after a reasonable inspection period (3 to 5 days after receipt). Offer to pay shipping both ways as a sign of good faith. Did I say never?

End of broadcast.
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Old January 23, 2013, 09:56 AM   #12
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Boots could use a shine...
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Old January 23, 2013, 11:42 AM   #13
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I have read Mykeal's caution before...

and it is sound advice.
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Old January 23, 2013, 11:49 AM   #14
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the sight unseen rule is good, exceptin for the fact that you would probably be stuck paying local gun store prices, which far exceed the worth of the gun. If you are a stickler, buy the thing new if ya got the bucks. But if $125 is your price range, you're gonna have to take a few chances, and maybe do a little bit of work when you get the gun. I've bought pristine guns off gunbroker, and I've bought some that needed a bit of work. But at the end of the day, I'd rather spend $125 than $300 plus. Of course, if you have the means, then by all means feel free to buy the more expensive pieces.
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Old January 23, 2013, 12:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
NEVER, ever buy a used gun sight unseen without an iron-clad, guaranteed right to return the gun no-questions-asked after a reasonable inspection period (3 to 5 days after receipt). Offer to pay shipping both ways as a sign of good faith. Did I say never?
As usual, mykeal is spot on with his suggestion. The above valuable suggestion is an 'iron-clad' rule I would live by with most all gun purchases. Especially, in the BP market.
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Old January 23, 2013, 01:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
the sight unseen rule is good, exceptin for the fact that you would probably be stuck paying local gun store prices, which far exceed the worth of the gun.
Why? If some bubba tries to triple the price after you ask for an inspection period you sure as heck ought to run for the door on that gun.
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Old January 23, 2013, 02:16 PM   #17
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Rifle Condition

Mykeal is right, condition is critical. The bore light is a good suggestions but running a tight patch down the bore will tell you a lot. To me, light rust on the patch is not the end of the world, but the patch should go down the bore in a smooth and steady fashion. Any roughness can be felt and with experience you can feel even smoothed pitting. The bore lights that I have used give a good indication of the bore condition at the muzzle (which is usually the same for the entire bbl). That said I have had experience with several cases where there was significant corrosion at the breach and the muzzle was pretty clean. I believe this was due to the use of the older Italian made corrosive percussion caps.
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Old January 23, 2013, 02:24 PM   #18
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Thanks for the input so far. I was going to just pick up the Jukar but we've been unable to work out a time to meet. They live pretty far away. What makes some models of the same gun more expensive than others? I was looking on Midway and they were selling a Hawken for over $700. It looked just like the one in the picture. Granted, it was new, but why such a big price gap?

Also, I had another guy offer a Lyman deerstalker to me for $200. That a fair price? Sorry for all the questions. I'm just wanting to make sure I get something decent and not get ripped off for my first muzzleloader. Thanks.
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Old January 23, 2013, 02:51 PM   #19
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Quote:
I was looking on Midway and they were selling a Hawken for over $700. It looked just like the one in the picture. Granted, it was new, but why such a big price gap?
Repeat after me: CONDITION.

Quote:
Lyman deerstalker to me for $200. That a fair price?
Maybe, maybe not. CONDITION.

Did I mention that condition is important?
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Old January 23, 2013, 05:27 PM   #20
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(CVA stopped making these rifles years ago).
You know better than that Mykeal. They stopped importing them. CVA never made anything.
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Old January 23, 2013, 10:06 PM   #21
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You are correct. I should have said CVA stopped selling them. Or importing them.
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Old January 24, 2013, 06:57 AM   #22
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Just checked the listing on GB that I was watching.

Two of the rifles have sold for 125.00 and 130.00 plus shipping.

One rifle remains at 100.00 opening price with no bids and just over one day to go on the auction. Forty bucks for shipping includes about ten dollars profit. Seller is not requiring use of an FFL holder.

I was at an auction in Zephyrhills FL and one of the Kentucky rifles from CVA in poor condition went for 75.00. That auction has a reputation for attracting folks who are willing to overpay for black powder stuff. I stopped bidding at 40.00.
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Old January 24, 2013, 11:29 AM   #23
jabba21
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I ended up going with the Lyman Deerstalker .50 cal. It's in really good condition and I got it for $116.


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Old January 24, 2013, 06:06 PM   #24
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Congrats, and welcome to the forum! You ought to have a lot of fun with that one.
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Old January 25, 2013, 03:57 PM   #25
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I just got a Lyman Deerstalker from Midway. I paid more than that.

I'm new to BP, and love it. I just got it to shoot this morning after a beginner's mishap with a stuck bullet.

So, it has been said, but is worth repeating:

Welcome aboard from another new guy. I like it here, and when that Deerstalker fired for the first time, it was ALMOST as good as another activity I enjoy quite a bit. Though far less frequently, being old and single.

The folks in this forum are extremely helpful. And fun.

Pat
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