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Old January 17, 2013, 01:08 PM   #1
chewie146
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Air pistol

Hey all,

I'm wondering who of you out there hunt with an air pistol. I'm considering getting one for practice, but one with enough pop to take rabbits and other small game at close range. Any ideas out there?

Thanks,

Ben
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Old January 17, 2013, 02:42 PM   #2
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Beeman P1 in 22 cal. Very close range and good head shots.
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Old January 17, 2013, 03:17 PM   #3
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I've used a .22 S&W78g on rats, not a hunting grade pistol and velocity (less than 400 fps) is not really up to the task.
I did find it would kill a large rat cleanly at close range if pointed pellets are used, but wadcutters while producing mortal internal injury would not break the skin and the rat could crawl away to die no matter how many times it was hit.
Those rats stunned to immobility by the first shot would still be kicking after five or more hits.

Basicaly you need a bit more velocity than I was getting from that S&W if you go with .22 bore size.

My Daisy pump up .177 gave quicker kills with either pellets or steel BBs, due to the much higher velocity of around 800 FPS, and much better penetration, often passing completely through the body of the largest rats.
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Old January 17, 2013, 07:08 PM   #4
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I have an old Crossman pump pistol. It originally came with tiny darts and a small target dart board. I found that 10 pumps would send the dart all the way through the board and half way through the sheet rock behind it. I never used it for hunting, but I know at short range it would easily kill a squirrel or even a rabbit.
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Old January 17, 2013, 08:38 PM   #5
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I have a crossman 10 pump. Not sure of the model but its a bolt action single shot. Will kill a rat clean. I killed a opossum with it, but it took in the area of 5 shots. Either way opossum didnt eat any more duck eggs.
Check out the higher end ones like the beeman single pump. Deadly accurate and about 800fps with one pump.
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Old January 17, 2013, 10:47 PM   #6
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really depends on what your looking for:

Spring Break barrel single shot/ Nitro Piston Break Barrel Single Shot/ or the more extensive and "expensive" pre charged Pneumatic rotary clip multishot Rifle

Price range is the next issue... then...-if you want a varmint grade air rifle there will be some needed fine tuning.

Lastly the spring rifles shoot differently from the pneumatics due to the vibrations of the spring shooting forward when the trigger breaks.
Pneumatics for the most part have a consistent break and projectile alignment producing the best target grade accuracy potential.

If your looking for a rifle with the recomended power levels that would humanely take small game out to distances within 50 yards, your looking at a high end break barrel or a pnuematic in my opinion.

The Benjamin Nitro piston rifle is one example- going for around 275.00 give or take.

They have a .25 cal version that gives you close to 25 foot pounds- enough for close range shots under 50 yards.

Pneumatics are going to be more suitable for shots taken farther than 50 yards because ya just loose too much energy at distances. Your looking at 30-70 foot pounds which is a different realm in terms of power.

Great youtube sites to look at reviews would be "Pyramyd Air, or Ted's Hold Over" These 2 will give you a great overview of the pros and cons of a few brands.

I've shot a few pellet rifles in my days and my conclusion which came recently was using the CCI Quiet ammo out of my 1022. ( 40 grain solids @ 710 fps) Out of the 18.5 inch barrel it produces decipel levels of a high power pellet rifle and I get a tad more than 40 foot pounds at the muzzle. At 50 yards I've produced 5 shot groupings 1 & 1/4th inches which is enough accuracy for my hunting needs. Much more accurate than CB longs and shorts.

I get these for around 3 bucks a box of 50 and they seem to work great for me

Was--when I found out I could turn my .22lr into an accurate pellet rifle

Last edited by m_liebst; January 17, 2013 at 11:28 PM.
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Old January 17, 2013, 11:04 PM   #7
springer99
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Beeman P1 in .177 or .22 would be OK for close(10yds or less) range at rabbits or smaller. I'm NOT including squirrels in this, btw.

IMHO, very few spring piston or pneumatic pump air pistols meet the power levels needed for hunting. There are a few CO2 or compressed air pistol that will do the job, but they tend to be a bit pricey.
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Old January 17, 2013, 11:36 PM   #8
m_liebst
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Quote:
IMHO, very few spring piston or pneumatic pump air pistols meet the power levels needed for hunting.
My error to your reply: I meant pre charge pneumatic rifles. I don't know of any pump pneumatic rifles or pistols that will humanely kill varmints as large as rabbits from beyond 20 + yards unless an exceptional head/ spine shot is attainable.

There are a few spring rifles that have foot pound ranges with in the 24-28 foot pound range which is sufficient for a humane kill within 50 yards:-
Beeman, Bejamin Nitro, Gamo Falcon Hunter,RWS and quite a few more.

pre-charged pneumatics are the upper end of power.
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Old January 18, 2013, 12:40 AM   #9
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I did a ton of small game hunting with my Webley Hurricane. The Hurricane is bit tired now and due for a piston seal and spring, but buying that air pistol in 1983 was possibly be best shooting purchase I've ever made. I've certainly shot it more than my 10-22. It was passed around at campsites and on hiking trips and introduced a lot of non-shooters to the sport. I recall one camp in 1987 or so and the whole weekend you'd hear "click(loading)...thhwank" all day. We went through a couple of thousand pellets that long weekend.

A .177 at 400+ fps will shoot right through a lot of stuff. Mine shot great with Silver Jets.

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Old January 18, 2013, 07:18 AM   #10
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Air

The way to go for hunting with an air pistol is to the PCP guns. Unfortunately, they are expensive to set up. In addition to the cost of the gun itself, from $390 (Benjamin Marauder/ 14gr .22 at 700fps) to $600 (Evanix AR6 14 gr .22 at 1000 fps), there is the added cost of a way to charge the things with air. Usually this is done with a high pressure Scuba tank ($) and/or a three stage high pressure hand pump ($190-$240).
They do shoot, though.
Another hot PCP pistol....somewhat larger....is the AirForce Talon. A .25 caliber gun. It will shoot a 43 grain pellet at 760 fps if the descriptions are correct.
A particularly nice feature of the Talon is that it will work with CO2 bulk cylinders, though a converter is needed.
About $400.

Pete.
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Old January 18, 2013, 12:50 PM   #11
m_liebst
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Quote:
Benjamin Marauder/ 14gr .22 at 700fps
The Ben. Marauder .22 cal will produce 900 FPS velocities with the 14.3 grain pellets for close to 27foot pounds.

The Ben. Marauder .25 cal will push 27.8 grain pellet @ 850 fps producing close to 45 foot pounds.

I've shot the .25 cal a few times. It produces quite a bit more umph than your average air rifle. Very accurate too up to 100 yards to say the least.

In the Air Rifle realm: Pushing bigger heavier pellets at slower speeds produces higher accuracy.

I've seen on air gun videos that most light weight pellets ( under 20 grains ) pushed at velocities beyond 950-1000 FPS produce unstable pellet trajectories. -That is being that the pellets tend to wobble or spiral out ward in flight. Faster isn't always better speaking for air rifles.

Last edited by m_liebst; January 18, 2013 at 01:07 PM.
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Old January 18, 2013, 11:28 PM   #12
darkgael
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Ok

I am corrected about velocities. My references, however, were to the Marauder Pistol.
Pete
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Last edited by darkgael; January 19, 2013 at 05:48 AM.
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Old January 19, 2013, 12:14 AM   #13
Rainbow Demon
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The Crosman site lists the Bejamin Marauder PCP pistol in .22 as giving 700 FPS.
The Marauder .22 PCP rifles are advertised on some sites as giving up to 1000 FPS. On the Crosman site they list it as giving 900 FPS.

The Quackenbush airguns sound interesting.
http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/outlaw_pistol.htm
The 9mm especially.

Last edited by Rainbow Demon; January 19, 2013 at 12:22 AM.
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Old January 19, 2013, 01:57 AM   #14
m_liebst
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Quote:
The Crosman site lists the Bejamin Marauder PCP pistol in .22 as giving 700 FPS.
The Marauder .22 PCP rifles are advertised on some sites as giving up to 1000 FPS. On the Crosman site they list it as giving 900 FPS.
Just youtube .22 marauder and check out the specific chrony testing at pyramyd air - for the marauder .22 cal and .25 cal- they do testing with several pellet brands and weight.

On the .22 cal you can adjust it up 1000 fps levels,...the weigh-off is having less shots per fill.

I've heard there adjustments you can make to get up to 60+ foot pounds with the .25 cal marauder using heavy specialized pellets ( 50 + grains) !....- obviously you'll have less full power shots per fill.
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Old January 19, 2013, 05:52 AM   #15
darkgael
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Pistol?

Quote:
On the .22 cal you can adjust it up 1000 fps levels,...the weigh-off is having less shots per fill.
Rifle or pistol? Benjamin specs 700 fps as max for the pistol. AFAIK, the pistol is only available in .22 cal.
The YouTube videos are about the rifle.
And....this is the handgun forum.
Quote:
The Quackenbush airguns sound interesting.
The Quackenbush guns are the berries. Very powerful. Hard to get. He takes orders only once a year during early Spring, IIRC, and only for a limited number. Once the quota is filled....wait another year.
His Outlaw pistols are quite something else.
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Last edited by darkgael; January 19, 2013 at 06:16 AM.
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Old January 19, 2013, 12:59 PM   #16
m_liebst
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Quote:
Rifle or pistol? Benjamin specs 700 fps as max for the pistol. AFAIK, the pistol is only available in .22 cal.
The YouTube videos are about the rifle.
And....this is the handgun forum.
Look up modified Marauder pistol on youtube- one guy has his shooting 650 FPS levels with the heavy 28 grain eugin pellets and 980 FPS levels with the lightest .22 pellets.


Increasing the Hammer spring tension, hammer throw length, and transfer port size are the main ways of power tuning your precharged PCP pistol.

You can attain up to 19.8 foot pounds with the marauder pistol...like i said though, you won't get too many consistent shot strings.

Oh and there are a few who own specialized .25 cal marauder pistols- go youtube it

p.s.: Very expensive conversion. I think the .25 cal conversion is getting close to 40 foot pounds!

Last edited by m_liebst; January 19, 2013 at 01:08 PM.
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Old January 19, 2013, 05:40 PM   #17
darkgael
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Ok

Quote:
Quote:
Rifle or pistol? Benjamin specs 700 fps as max for the pistol. AFAIK, the pistol is only available in .22 cal.
The YouTube videos are about the rifle.
And....this is the handgun forum.
Look up modified Marauder pistol on youtube- one guy has his shooting 650 FPS levels with the heavy 28 grain eugin pellets and 980 FPS levels with the lightest .22 pellets.


Increasing the Hammer spring tension, hammer throw length, and transfer port size are the main ways of power tuning your precharged PCP pistol.

You can attain up to 19.8 foot pounds with the marauder pistol...like i said though, you won't get too many consistent shot strings.

Oh and there are a few who own specialized .25 cal marauder pistols- go youtube it

p.s.: Very expensive conversion. I think the .25 cal conversion is getting close to 40 foot pounds!
No doubt that you are correct about the above modified pistols.
You are, however, citing the exception rather than the rule. That may be misleading to someone unless it is explained upfront that those velocities and energy figures are not to be expected in an over the counter air pistol, though the Evanix AR6 comes close if Pyramyd can be believed (28 grainer at 700 fps and much more money).
Pete
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Old January 19, 2013, 06:44 PM   #18
Rainbow Demon
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While you can usually get higher velocity from a PCP or a CO2 gun by increasing velocity of the linear hammer by increasing spring tension, it may cause undue wear or failure of the valve stem.

The better quality guns have very sturdy parts, but increasing spring thrust will cut into the mechanisms safety factor.

The Factory specs are approximately (sometimes on the low side) what you can expect from an unaltered gun, with built in safety factor to avoid premature failure and warranty issues.

PS
When converting a CO2 gun to PCP, or vice versa, the spring tension necessary for optimum performance will be different for each power source.
I don't remember the details, but apparently when under that much pressure the differing size of the gas molecules determines just how much gas can pass through the valve in the alotted opening time.

Last edited by Rainbow Demon; January 19, 2013 at 06:50 PM.
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Old January 19, 2013, 09:43 PM   #19
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I built custom WGP Autococker paintball guns during the era when we switched from C02 to HPA (high pressure air). C02 is a pretty dense energy source. HPA provides a lot of pressure but a lower volume of gas. Some of the things we did was heavier hammers, opened up valves (both the valve stem/seat and the transfer port) etc. One of the more interesting things we found back then was a Nelson hammer spring kit that used thinner wire wound in a larger diameter pattern, which gave higher velocities with a seemingly lighter hammer strike.

HPA is simply head and shoulders better than C02 for shot to shot consistency.

I'm a hold out, and when I drag myself out to play once a year I'm still using C02, but I'll probably switch to an HPA setup pretty soon.
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Old January 20, 2013, 12:55 AM   #20
m_liebst
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Quote:
No doubt that you are correct about the above modified pistols.
You are, however, citing the exception rather than the rule. That may be misleading to someone unless it is explained upfront that those velocities and energy figures are not to be expected in an over the counter air pistol, though the Evanix AR6 comes close if Pyramyd can be believed (28 grainer at 700 fps and much more money).
Your right about me thinking rifle instead of pistol, /and about the extensive mods vs over the counter product.

I wasn't expecting someone to be looking for an air pistol for hunting game as large as rabbits.

I rather thought it was meant to be for a full power rifle which is more legitamite for hunting, even though this is the Handgun forum

Guess I skipp a few important words at times.

Most others fine tune their PCPs though- just the nature of the technology and the hobby of PCPs.

I was actually suprised at how easily modifyable the Maurader pistol is.

-Otherwise i really don't know of any other air pistols that would quickly and humanely kill varmints as large as rabbit from distances past 25 yards.
With rabbits- "especially the Jacks on my property",- 60-75 yards is usually how close I'm able to walk before they hit the gas pedal. That is unless its covert/ blind style hunting.

Mike

Last edited by m_liebst; January 20, 2013 at 01:13 AM.
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Old January 20, 2013, 05:58 AM   #21
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Quote:
Otherwise i really don't know of any other air pistols that would quickly and humanely kill varmints as large as rabbit from distances past 25 yards.
Past 25 yards is a haul for sure.
Years ago....before we had the sophisticated air guns that we have now (think 1976 or so), I was camping out for the summer and hunting rabbits for food. I had an old Crosman .22 pump up pistol - pretty much like their current model 1322 - that I used for rabbits. I would pump it up way past the recommended max - maybe 18-20 pumps. Blew the seals by the end of the summer. In any case, I took eight rabbits with nine shots total. Average distance would have been close to that 25 yards, a couple a bit longer though not much so.
That was using the basic Crosman pellet.....14 grain flat point. I wonder now if there were any other pellets available then....back in the day.
Still have that old pistol. Sent it out a couple of years ago to have it repaired....a reputable fellow. He said that he'd overhauled it, but but it still doesn't pump up and hold air at all.
Alas.
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Old January 20, 2013, 12:22 PM   #22
m_liebst
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It's amazing what some can do with 6-7 foot pounds at times with a well placed shot. In my days as a young teenager, I started out with a crossman pump ( something like 650 fps with bbs, and 600 fps with .177 pellets).

Now seeing an trying some of the new PCP guns makes me scoff at myself for being so sure about the power levels of the petty crossman pump when we took shots at extreme distances at rabbits and such.

I bought the crossman 1377 pistol too -back in the days , and that was a good squirrel gun up to 25 yards max. Mmmmm mmm mmm!..
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Old January 21, 2013, 12:12 PM   #23
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How about a Webley Tempest. 177, 1 cock 500+ fps.
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Old January 21, 2013, 02:03 PM   #24
darkgael
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Webley

The Tempest is a great looking gun. Powerful for its size. I had one and sold it to a friend who really wanted it.
I found that despite many positive qualities, the trigger was a big weakness - both in form (too thin) and function (too heavy). Air pistol triggers should be measured in ounces, not pounds.
Pete
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Old January 21, 2013, 02:38 PM   #25
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I have a "break/pump Air Rifle .177 that shoots at 1200 FPS (at least claims it does with proper pellets). When I used the high velocity pellets not only did it sound like a regular .22 rifle, but I tested it's penetration.

The .177 at 1000 to 1200 FPS went through 4 pizza boxes (so 8 layers) then into the phonebook behind it. It stopped around page 270. That is major power for a .177 air rifle that costed $150!! If if could penetrate that much, i wouldn't hesitate to use if even in self-defense if its ALL I HAD (key word is is if it was only weapon I had).

Now a friend of mine as a .22 Air rifle that also is high-velocity. Not as fast as .177 of course but I think 900 to 1000 FPS is what it claims. That thing was loud and seemed like a real rifle. He even shot a cylinder block and was taking chunks off it!! So I very we'll could picture a Air-rifle for hunting, especially smaller game. You need a .22 with the highest FPS you can get. Also the pellets meant for hunting work, too.

They also have Air rifles so powerful people go BIG GAMW hunting in..... AFRICA!!! With an Air-Rifle!!! I'm sure those cost a lot of money, as in thousands. I mean hunting big-game in Africa with an... Air rifle? Crazy, but people do it vs BIG game in Africa. I still bet those super super extremely crazy high powered air rifles cost thousands or more. Heck I wouldn't even feel all that safe with a .44 MAG in Africa. But some Air-Rifles are more powerful. Goes to show just how powerful modern Air rifles CAN be.

I've also seen YouTube videos where even a .177 Air-Rifle that is around 1200 FPS taking out a fox/coyote in one shot. I've also read a story of a guy who used his .22 air rifle as a means to "just scare away the deer". He didnt know how powerful modern air rifles had became. So he hit the deer in the right spot and supposedly the thing ran a little bit then dropped!

Last edited by Josh17; January 21, 2013 at 02:48 PM.
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