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Old January 20, 2013, 10:45 AM   #1
horatioo
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another question about the gun ban craze

Since so many people are worried about a gun ban, lots of people are buying up lots of guns and ammo. Is that a good thing? Do you like it that lots of people who didnt own a gun two months ago, now do?

Lots of smart people think the ban idea will faze out over time and gun and ammo availability will get back to normal. Most people who really love their guns already own enough (thats a loaded word) and have enough ammo to last them until normalcy returns.

Anyway, my question is do panics like this have any positive effect? And more specifically is it a positive that more people now own guns because of the craze?

I am not sure how I come off, so just to state, I am very pro 2nd amendment and pro gun. I realize there are lots of negatives to the gun ban craze and dont mean to downplay them, just asking about any upside.

Steve

Last edited by horatioo; January 20, 2013 at 10:51 AM.
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Old January 20, 2013, 10:49 AM   #2
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More people are becoming politically aware and realizing that their gun rights are never entirely "secure". Maybe more gun owners too. I don't see any downside.


There may be some buyers remorse down the road for the guy who paid $2K for the DPMS Sporter but that always happens when you don't prepare properly.
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Old January 20, 2013, 11:47 AM   #3
flyinpolack
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Quote:
Anyway, my question is do panics like this have any positive effect? And more specifically is it a positive that more people now own guns because of the craze?
No not at all.
1. Every time there is a panic frenzy it is because some politician decided to pull some kind of meaningless restriction.
(A politician that probably has stock in Winchester, the hypocrites!)
2. especially for the folks that were ACTUALLY into shooting before all of this BS happened, there is nothing good other than unloading some guns at inflated prices...
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Old January 20, 2013, 11:51 AM   #4
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I think the increased sales is due to the public realizing what's going on, politically. I think it's okay.

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Old January 20, 2013, 11:53 AM   #5
2ndsojourn
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I'd be interested to see some statistics about how many are new gun owners vs already being a gun owner.
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Old January 20, 2013, 12:20 PM   #6
horatioo
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Quote:
2. especially for the folks that were ACTUALLY into shooting before all of this BS happened, there is nothing good other than unloading some guns at inflated prices...

How has it hurt you?
I am nowhere near involved in guns as many here, but I have the guns I really want and enough ammunition to shoot the amount I usually shoot for a couple years. I dont shoot just a whole lot though, so a couple hundred dollars worth of ammo is good for a year or two for me.
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Old January 20, 2013, 12:26 PM   #7
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2. especially for the folks that were ACTUALLY into shooting before all of this BS happened, there is nothing good other than unloading some guns at inflated prices...
Well there is always the upside of picking up cheap barley if ever fired guns and magazines once a ban is never realized or when it's lifted
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Old January 20, 2013, 12:47 PM   #8
flyinpolack
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How has it hurt you? I am nowhere near involved in guns as many here, but I have the guns I really want and enough ammunition to shoot the amount I usually shoot for a couple years. I dont shoot just a whole lot though, so a couple hundred dollars worth of ammo is good for a year or two for me.
I like to go shooting every couple of weeks, & I'll generally go through 500-600 rounds (a little of everything) per trip.
The more people panic, the more expensive the bullets get.
Yes, I do reload, & those prices are going through the roof too.
I haven't bought any guns in the past couple of months-the prices are ridiculous!
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Old January 20, 2013, 01:17 PM   #9
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I think the politicians that represent metropolitan areas are starting to realize you can't apply a blanket policy meant for high density areas to rural America (as evidences by the state nullification laws recently passed). My wishful thinking is that we may see some decentralization of power to more local or state government. It is wishful thinking, but would be a huge benefit to the liberty of the American populace.
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Old January 20, 2013, 01:27 PM   #10
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The only positive effect that comes to mind is that gun makers, parts makers, and gun stores are making money. Same can be said for companies that make bullets, cases, primes, and powder.
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Old January 20, 2013, 01:29 PM   #11
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The only lasting effect of the last panic (upon Obama's first election) was a permanent increase in the price of ammunition. I didn't see large numbers on non gun owners rushing out to buy a gun while they still could.

This time is different. I think it's positive, but we need to get those new buyers active politically. I happened upon a clip of the president's address last night. He flat out stated that a majority of the people support a ban on "assault weapons," that a majority of the people support magazine capacity limits, that a majority of the people support ...

The only one I think he was correct on is that it does appear a majority support enhanced background checks. But even that's a knee-jerk reaction, because nobody has yet defined what some hypothetical enhancement will actually be.

So there is a massive disconnect between the White House and reality. And that's dangerous.
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Old January 20, 2013, 02:14 PM   #12
Magnum Mike
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I know for a fact that 3 first time buyers were buying on panic.
1. Bought a rifle because he felt it would be cool to have after it was banned!
2. The other 2 bought them because they are catching on that the criminals are not obeying the laws and the government is doing a lousy job of protect it's people! They want guns before they are outlawed for protection!
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Old January 20, 2013, 02:42 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Magnum Mike
2. The other 2 bought them because they are catching on that the criminals are not obeying the laws and the government is doing a lousy job of protect it's people! They want guns before they are outlawed for protection!
This is the message we have to keep spreading.

Just after Sandy Hook I read that that school had "just" instituted a policy of locking the front door at 09:30 and requiring visitors to be buzzed in. God only knows why that school only just got around to what other schools have doing for ten or fifteen years, but the point is -- what's the point? A buzz-to-enter system OBVIOUSLY only works if the person on the outside is willing to stand there and wait to be buzzed in. They gave zero thought to what this "security protocol" actually meant in the face of a bona fide threat. I watched an interview with one of the teacher's aides -- she said when she and her teacher realized they should lock the door, they discovered that neither of them had the key!

A week or so ago my newspaper ran a repeat of an interview somebody did in Connecticut with a school superintendent, regarding arming teachers. She was against it. She was also against doing anything to "harden" schools against attacks. She just wants the state to confiscate all guns. "We don't want our schools to look like secured facilities. That might be upsetting to the children."

Good God! Paraphrased, "We want our kids to feel safe, but we don't want to do anything that actually make them BE safe."

Therein lies the problem. It's what LTC (Ret) Dave Grossman calls "Denial," and that's exactly what it is. "Let's do something so it looks like we're concerned about security, but don't make it too obvious because, after all, we'll never really need it."
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Old January 21, 2013, 12:08 AM   #14
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There are down sides...

To so many people buying guns, besides the temporary hyper inflation of prices and lack of availability...

One of those is the rash of first time buyers. A lot of people went looking for the black guns before the ban, and found them sold out, so they got something else instead. So we now have a lot of people with guns, who never owned one before.

Likely all they know about guns is what they have seen on tv.
How many of those are going to read the instruction manual?
How many are going to get ANY safety training? etc.,etc.,etc...

Some of those people ARE going to have accidents. Some of those accidents ARE going to be fatal for someone. And then there is the whole list of possible misuses that untrained people are going to get into. I doubt many of the first time buyers even have a clue when it is legal to shoot to defend themselves, and when is isn't. That's going to be a problem, too.

Most of the people who are new gun owners aren't going to be a problem. Some of them may even become enthusiasts, with time. But some of them are going to be idiots, who now have a gun....
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Old January 21, 2013, 11:24 AM   #15
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But some of them are going to be idiots, who now have a gun....
Guess what? That was always the case and always will be in a free country. You should see how some people drive. And I use drive in the loosest of terms.
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Old January 21, 2013, 02:14 PM   #16
Tom Servo
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Most of the people who are new gun owners aren't going to be a problem. Some of them may even become enthusiasts, with time. But some of them are going to be idiots, who now have a gun.
That was my worry during the 2008-2009 panic.

To some extent, I was proven wrong. I'm at ground zero for the gun culture in a large suburban area, and we saw requests for instruction skyrocket. We saw a huge upsurge in shooters (as opposed to owners).

Furthermore, we haven't seen any evidence that negligent injuries have increased, nor that more people than usual are miscalculating things in self-defense. Crime rates continue to plummet.

Is it all sunshine and unicorn belching? No. We're always going to have dinks who shouldn't be handling any sort of potentially hazardous machine. However, there isn't any evidence to show that they're any more a problem now than they've ever been.

The net result is an improvement for the gun culture.
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Old January 21, 2013, 02:54 PM   #17
bikerbill
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I went to my local range this morning to fire my new XDs for the first time ... usually I have the place more or less to myself ... today, there were more people there than I have ever seen before in nine years of use (I know it's a holiday, but I've been there on holidays before. this was unprecedented) ... in fact, there were so many people waiting for a handgun position they were making folks take a number, like at the bakery ... on both sides of me were couples, the guy showing his companion how to shoot whatever it was they had with them ... in several other cases, it was obvious the guns were brand-new; an older gentleman three booths away had a Ruger .380 that failed to feed the first round, and he had no idea how to clear the jam; I really was concerned, so I pointed him out to a range officer, who helped him get the gun running again ... I certainly share the concern that a lot of folks who don't know what they're doing and don't care to learn are arming themselves, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed and am happy to have them as new members of our community ... there is certainly strength in numbers, just keep that thing pointed downrange, please ...
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Old January 21, 2013, 04:17 PM   #18
mack59
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More people owning more guns is a good thing - more people to teach and recruit to the RKBA movement. More people with a tangible investment to lose, who may gain an understanding of guns and how they actually work, and who may enjoy shooting and be able to protect themselves and their loved ones.

No wonder the President and the Senior Senator from NY sounded so ticked, blaming the NRA for people buying guns and asking retailers to stop selling those evil guns.
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Old January 21, 2013, 06:06 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Tom Servo
The net result is an improvement for the gun culture.
I've said it before, read it countless times before, and it still bears repeating.

We as memebers of the gun culture are more often than not our own worst enemies.

Whether it be from apathy, reverse elitism, or downright snobbery, I think we do more to hurt ourselves than any piece of Legislation to come forth from the Capitol building.

For example, I see so much negativity directed towards first time gun buyers, both online and in the real world.

We should embrace each and every new shooter that walks into our favorite local gun shoip, pawn shop, gun club, or range. That is how we will spread the sport, protect our rights, and prevail.

Decrying to the world that all the first time gun buyers are going to result in blood in the streets is only a shade or two above what the antis- claim.
Instead of despairing the fall of our civilization, we should embrace these new shooters and show them the merits of our cause.
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Old January 21, 2013, 07:08 PM   #20
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I spend 2 or 3 days a week @ our gun club. Every first time shooter must watch a video on gun safety. I have never seen as many new shooter in the many years that I have been goin' there! I believe that is a good thing!
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Old January 22, 2013, 03:31 PM   #21
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More people owning them is just fine, they all got a background check, right?

The more people who have reason to think about the gov't banning their property, confiscatory taxes, confiscation, etc., etc., the better off we all are.
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Old January 22, 2013, 04:50 PM   #22
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We were all first time gun owners once.
Hopefully the new owners will learn to shoot them and get into the activity too. I wish I was some kind of instructor, I'd maybe offer low cost basic safety and familiarization class or something. I hope they take the time to learn and not get discouraged. We need numbers of gun owners to grow.

I don't go to ranges, I shoot at a ranch, but I see stories of people struggling at the range. Maybe if done of y'all see those guys, help them out.
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Old January 22, 2013, 04:52 PM   #23
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A week or so ago my newspaper ran a repeat of an interview somebody did in Connecticut with a school superintendent, regarding arming teachers. She was against it. She was also against doing anything to "harden" schools against attacks. She just wants the state to confiscate all guns. "We don't want our schools to look like secured facilities. That might be upsetting to the children."
Upsetting to the children only because the schools and idiots like this superintendent have brainwashed the little skulls fulla mush that guns are evil. Just think if we told kids that wearing a life jacket meant that the boat they were going on was going to sink. Do you think the kids would go on the boat, even with a life jacket on? Sheesh. We have really failed our kids with regards to firearms vs. safety. Firearms do mean safety when good people have them. We don't teach kids to fear firearms that uniformed police and sheriff's dept. people are carrying.
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Old January 22, 2013, 04:56 PM   #24
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Let me add to what some brilliant folks have already stated above. Many young people who are pro second amendment, have just come out of college, a technical school, or maybe the military. They don't have much money and in a tough economy are trying to find their way. They may have put off buying their very first gun until they had a better financial footing. However, the reaction by the anti gun folks to Newtown, has changed the dynamic. Some of these young people may have decided that they can't wait any longer to purchase if they feel the guns they might want will no longer be available.
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Old January 23, 2013, 01:43 AM   #25
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Not against new gun owners in the least. What I meant was, that since the number of new gun owners is up, the number of accidents and idiots will be up, also.

I expect the percentages to be about what they always have been, but I'm sure someone will try to make an issue about the (likey, slight) increase in the number of individual incidents due to more people having guns.

ITs what they do. If the accident rate stays the same but the base goes up, they'll cry about the increase. You know how they are, if it is 1 out of 1,000 (just for a number) then when it becomes 10 out of 10,000 they scream incidents have increased 10 times! IT's a lie, but they will say it anyway.
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