The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 10, 2013, 09:23 AM   #1
DavidB2
Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2008
Posts: 83
full length guide rod on 1911

I am already thinking about my next 1911. I have the mil-spec in the Rem. R1. Now I want a tactical 1911. Noticed tha the Taurus 1911 in stainless with a rail has the best price. However, I am wondering about the significance of the full length rod on the slide. Most of your high-end 1911s have this feature. Taurus is most affordable. What difference does the full length rod provide verses the configuration in the basic 1911 with the shorter rod? Thanks.
DavidB2 is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 09:32 AM   #2
TacticalDefense1911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,276
Quote:
What difference does the full length rod provide verses the configuration in the basic 1911 with the shorter rod? Thanks
It makes it harder to field strip. Thats about it.
TacticalDefense1911 is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 09:37 AM   #3
Constantine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 5,177
Doesn't add anything over the regular style short guide rod and spring.

Just what the above mentioned. It's harder to field strip. Keep an allen key handy.

I know someone who removes the full length guide rods off all his 1911's

Strumgwhere (sorry if I spelled that wrong)
__________________
Sáncte Míchael Archángele, defénde nos in proélio, cóntra nequítiam et insídias diáboli ésto præsídium. Ímperet ílli Déus, súpplices deprecámur: tuque, prínceps milítiæ cæléstis, Sátanam aliósque spíritus malígnos, qui ad perditiónem animárum pervagántur in múndo, divína virtúte, in inférnum detrúde. Ámen
Constantine is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 10:02 AM   #4
Tom Servo
Staff
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 10,240
The purpose of full-length guide rods is to sell full-length guide rods. I've never seen any sort of proof that they increase accuracy or help with reliability.
__________________
In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer.
--Albert Camus
Tom Servo is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 10:18 AM   #5
qwiksdraw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 23, 2012
Posts: 376
At a gun show I was asking the guy about the Wilson Combat FLGR and had the same discussion as this thread. But for $20, what the heck, I got one just to try it out for myself.

I'm too new at this to notice a difference in shooting.

It's a bit slower to field strip, but not by that much. It's 5 second I can spare, especially since it's 5 seconds of gun handling.

Anyway, I had my fun and the WC FLGR and it is still in my gun.
qwiksdraw is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 10:26 AM   #6
kimbershot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Posts: 119
someone's idea on improving jmb's design--a pita and a waste of money.
kimbershot is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 10:40 AM   #7
Don P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,786
PITA to strip. The only thing that I see is that the recoil spring doesn't flex, bend within the slide during opening and closing of the slide. I see no advantage
__________________
NRA Life Member, NRA Range Safety Officer, IDPA Safety Officer
As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.
Don P is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 02:09 PM   #8
Mello2u
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 21, 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,424
You can't do a "press check" with a 1911 that has a guide rod.

I do not target shoot. The way I shoot is to practice defensive shooting and some hunting simulations. All of my 1911s are more accurate than I am and none have a guide rod.
__________________
NRA Life Member - Orange Gunsite Member - NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society,
they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it.
" Frederic Bastiat
Mello2u is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 02:20 PM   #9
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 5,893
I have some with, some without. Some of the FLGR's do not require any special tools or procedures to disassemble, some do. One of my guns required special tools, that one was replaced with a GI guide rod. I cannot tell that the others hurt or help. As long as I can fieldstrip the gun with no special tools they can stay. I wouldn't spend money to replace either one.
jmr40 is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 03:24 PM   #10
Tucker 1371
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2008
Location: East TN
Posts: 1,989
I've had three 1911s, a Taurus, a Springfield Operator, and currently my Colt Rail Gun. The Taurus and Springer both had full length guide rods, the Taurus did not require an Allen wrench to break down, the Springer did. The Taurus was pretty reliable if fed only 230gr brass cased ammo. The Springer (SA fans are about to throw rocks at me) would jam on the third mag of anything if I didn't take my finger and wipe the feed ramp clean.

My Colt, with the short guide rod only has about 120 rounds through it. But I fed it every flavor of ammo I had on hand (230gr FMJ, 185gr ZMAX, brass and steel cases, very old and very new ammo), and it didn't jam.

Maybe the guide rod has something to do with it, maybe not. Those are just my experiences.
__________________
NCO of Marines, 3rd Award Expert Rifle, 236 KD Range
D Co, 4th CEB, Engineers UP!! OEF 21JUN-20SEP2011
REV. 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Tucker 1371 is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 03:39 PM   #11
Fishbed77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2010
Posts: 2,676
Quote:
Just what the above mentioned. It's harder to field strip. Keep an allen key handy.
Not sure about the Taurus pistols, but my Colt Government XSE with a full-length guide rod requires no tools to field strip (certainly not a allen key!). A plastic bushing wrench certainly makes it easier, though.

That said, this Colt has been 100% reliable and incredibly accurate, so I've seen no need to switch out the FLGR.
Fishbed77 is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 03:47 PM   #12
Ben Towe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 6, 2009
Location: Middle Tennessee
Posts: 1,120
Quote:
The purpose of full-length guide rods is to sell full-length guide rods.
Tom hit it on the head. I can see absolutely no advantage.
__________________
'Merica: Back to back World War Champs
Ben Towe is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 04:09 PM   #13
Rainbow Demon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 27, 2012
Posts: 397
One of the first tricks I learned when I carried a 1911 was how to cycle the slide one handed. You catch the muzzle end of the slide on the edge of the opening of a flap holster and push down hard, the barrel going to the inside and the stiff edge of the holster holding the slide immobile. The same can be done with a stiff leather belt. Takes practice but it works.
I don't think you can do it with a full length guide rod. I might be wrong though.
Rainbow Demon is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 04:15 PM   #14
AndyWest
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2011
Posts: 621
Erm, wouldn't you need a rather long slide for that to work? You can brass check it that way unlike most semi-autos.

[Edit]

I stand corrected. I just charged my SIG STX this way with a snapcap and a finger. Would certainly look cooler if I had a firm leather holster.
__________________
Shoot smart. Shoot S-Mart.

Last edited by AndyWest; January 10, 2013 at 04:21 PM.
AndyWest is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 04:46 PM   #15
Erno86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2012
Location: Marriottsville, Maryland
Posts: 506
You can do a press check with a 1911, that has a full or short length guide rod.

The full length guide rods are easier to field strip with a full length 1911.

I believe the STI 1911's, are more accurate with their short length guide rods. Personally...I would not buy a Taurus 1911, and would suggest buying a upper echelon 1911 in the $1,000 - $3,500 range.

The price of ammo will far outstrip the price of the pistol, especially if you practice shooting alot.

Established major pistol competitions, ban the use of heavy tungsten full length guide rods...but when I shoot my full length Kimber 1911 in 45 acp ---I prefer to have it equipped with a full length tungsten steel guide rod from Kimber. The heavy tungsten guide rod...gives me better recoil control {less muzzle flip} and an overall --- better handling and feel of the pistol.

Last edited by Erno86; January 10, 2013 at 05:08 PM.
Erno86 is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 04:53 PM   #16
1911Tuner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2004
Location: NC Piedmont/Foothills
Posts: 605
FLGR

Quote:
The only thing that I see is that the recoil spring doesn't flex, bend within the slide during opening and closing of the slide.
It can't bend or flex with the stub-type rod, either.
__________________
If your front porch collapses and kills more than three dogs...You just might be a redneck
1911Tuner is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 05:07 PM   #17
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 11,299
Personally, I like the full length guide rods on all of my 5" 1911's..../ all of my Wilson Combat 1911's came with them installed new out of the factory ....no reason to get rid of them. One wilson is my primary carry gun ...the other is primarily a range practice gun.../ my Ed Brown and my Kimbers all came with the full length rod installed new as well. I spec my new guns with it ...

Yes, it means you need a bushing wrench to field strip the gun ...but so what ???

I have one 1911, a Les Baer, with the GI rod ...and I haven't replaced it ...but I think without the full length guide rod - there is a chance the spring might kink.../ and personally the spring gets away from me once in a while using the old "armors" grip on this gun with the GI rod when I field strip it....so I just prefer the full length guide rod.
BigJimP is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 05:13 PM   #18
1911Tuner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2004
Location: NC Piedmont/Foothills
Posts: 605
Kinky Spring

Quote:
I have one 1911, a Les Baer, with the GI rod ...and I haven't replaced it ...but I think without the full length guide rod - there is a chance the spring might kink...
Can't do it.

Marketing 101: Convince the customer that he needs it...and then sell it to him.

With the slide in battery, there are only 5 or 6 coils between the end of the guide rod and the end of the spring plug that are unsupported. As the spring compresses, its OD becomes captive by the plug, and its ID by the rod. By about 1/2 inch of slide travel rearward, the spring is captive. At full slide travel, it's completely encapsulated by the plug and supported in both directions.

Here, the end of the plug and guide rod can be seen, along with the unsupported spring coils. There just ain't a lotta room for the spring to bend.

__________________
If your front porch collapses and kills more than three dogs...You just might be a redneck

Last edited by 1911Tuner; January 10, 2013 at 05:22 PM.
1911Tuner is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 05:29 PM   #19
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 11,299
and it never has kinked....so I get the point....

( so I'm a slave to marketing.../ but I'll keep the guns, especially the Wilsons specd the same as they came out of the factory )....I have well over 40,000 rds thru one ( its about 7 yrs old ) .....and my carry gun is about 10 yrs old ...and only has 20,000 rds or so thru it ...

but since neither of them are broke...I'm leaving the FLGR's in them....

Note: I don't keep my carry gun specd as it came out of the Wilson factory - because of lawyers...I keep it that way, because I know, Wilson knows more about their guns that I do .. ....and because I like my 5" guns with the
FLGR in them. If I thought it was better ...or if I just wanted to change something on my carry gun...I'd change it. I could care less, in general, about what lawyters say about maybe modifying a carry gun...I think its an overblown issue...

Last edited by BigJimP; January 10, 2013 at 05:39 PM.
BigJimP is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 05:34 PM   #20
AndyWest
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2011
Posts: 621
Lawyered.
__________________
Shoot smart. Shoot S-Mart.
AndyWest is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 05:51 PM   #21
Charles S
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2002
Location: North East Texas
Posts: 927
Quote:
I know someone who removes the full length guide rods off all his 1911's
Me... I am not a fan of full length guide rods.
__________________
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
Charles S is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 05:54 PM   #22
buckhorn_cortez
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 30, 2010
Posts: 390
Quote:
The purpose of full-length guide rods is to sell full-length guide rods.

Tom hit it on the head. I can see absolutely no advantage.
I'm not sure that's true. I have a pistol built by one of the best 1911 pistol smiths in the business and he uses full length guide rods. I don't think he'd use them unless he found an advantage - at least for his style of building a pistol. That pistol is the most accurate 1911 that I own.

On the flip side - the second most accurate pistol I own does not have a full length guide rod. However, when compared in a Ransom Rest, the FLGR pistol beats the other pistol by about 0.1-inch in accuracy at 50 yards. Either gun being way more accurate than I can shoot.

Without looking at the Wilson website to confirm this - I think Wilson uses FLGR in their Commander size pistols as their experience has shown increased reliability in shorter pistols.

Last edited by buckhorn_cortez; January 10, 2013 at 06:06 PM.
buckhorn_cortez is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 05:59 PM   #23
RamItOne
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 24, 2011
Posts: 976
I would not want to need a tool to field strip any firearm, the only exception I can see is on the M&P pistol, its not required but is easier, however it fits in the grip of the pistol.
__________________
M&P- the other dark meat

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...rtant/DJyvnHz0
RamItOne is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 06:04 PM   #24
buckhorn_cortez
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 30, 2010
Posts: 390
Quote:
I would not want to need a tool to field strip any firearm,
Agreed. However, the only FLGR you should need a tool for is a two-piece guide rod. I have three pistols with FLGR and never use a tool to disassemble them. Disassembly really isn't a problem. Reassembly is the part that can be a bit tricky.
buckhorn_cortez is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 06:49 PM   #25
1911Tuner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2004
Location: NC Piedmont/Foothills
Posts: 605
FLGR

Quote:
but since neither of them are broke...I'm leaving the FLGR's in them....
It leads to a couple questions.

"What's so good about a FLGR?"

*shrug* "Nothin."

"Well, then...what's so bad about a FLGR?"

*shrug* "Nothin."
__________________
If your front porch collapses and kills more than three dogs...You just might be a redneck
1911Tuner is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.16018 seconds with 9 queries