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Old January 22, 2013, 12:03 PM   #1
Tomas204
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My Ex said my sons are to young to handle use guns

I have been teaching my sons gun safety since they where 4 ( santa brought them their first .22 at that age ), she never had a problem when we where married that she told me, well we have been divorced for 8 years and my sons are now 14. They spend everyu weekend with me and we go shooting when ever possible, well now she sez they cannot be around me or guns any more, I just don't get it, my sons handle guns saferer than most grown men, they are very very careful and know a lot about them, they know what they are used for, and know what they can do.
This christmas my son wanted a .308 so he saved up and got one, his mom is really angry, she wants him to buy some electronic junk and sit home, she does not want him out of the house, and enjoy the great outdoors and squeeze a few rounds off.
I am just bothered, I started taking my sons hunting at 5 when we moved here, now she has custody of them she wants them to do nothing with me, I am not paying another bottom feeder to fight in court.

Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; January 22, 2013 at 12:35 PM.
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Old January 22, 2013, 12:11 PM   #2
Baba Louie
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Quote:
I am not paying another bottom feeder to fight in court.
Then you will more than likely dance to her tune for the next 4 years Tomas.

Sad that. Explain it to your son. It could be the recent spate of shootings that has ex wary. It could be a control thing. It could be any number of things. If you cannot work it out, then wait a bit, but keep your sons interests at heart and maybe plan a hunting trip together worth a lifetime of memories when he turns 18 with the money you save from legal fees?
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Old January 22, 2013, 12:16 PM   #3
dascottsman
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Strange how things work in the land of divorce. That is the exact combination many people are trying to hit with kids today, get off that damn video game and go do something....and she encourages behavior which many people are trying to figure out how to combat.
If they are with you every weekend on paper, she can like it or not, I wouldn't think that you are doing anything that could be brought up in court to try to ding you on your custody. But then again, I am not a lawyer, but I have been through a divorce, and realize that almost EVERYTHING has to be run through lawyers to make sure,= $$$$$!!!!
Good luck, and keep up that relationship with your kids, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS!!!!!
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Old January 22, 2013, 12:25 PM   #4
Alabama Shooter
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If her wishes are contrary to any legal agreement I can't see how it would be enforceable.
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Old January 22, 2013, 12:28 PM   #5
Baba Louie
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If her wishes are contrary to any legal agreement I can't see how it would be enforceable.
All it would take is one restraining order from a sympathetic justice and boy, could things get agly. As we all should know or presume.
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Old January 22, 2013, 12:30 PM   #6
Tomas204
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Well I am not sure it will be 4 years, I may try to get them from her, in my state they can choose where to live and they despise her, I told her years ago watch out they will hate you if you keep up these goofy things. BTW I have twin boys Thank you guys
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Old January 22, 2013, 12:46 PM   #7
jlr2267
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You do have visitation, right? What you do on your own time with your boys is up to you, not her. She is the one who would need a court order to stop it.
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Old January 22, 2013, 01:03 PM   #8
lcpiper
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Your boys will see things from their point of view, not yours' or your EX's.

Always keep that in mind. They might agree with you on things "they want to do", and sound like they are all against her. But she is their mom and that is a strong bond. In the long run, you don't want to break that bond. You and your wife are divorced but your boys do really still need both a mom and a dad.

You have taught your boys about guns, they are not going to forget such things. Tell them the way it is, chill with the guns, get the wife to agree to other outdoor activities. When the boys are old enough to legally decide for themselves then you can catch up then.

In the mean time talk with those boys, don't ever "poison" them against her, they will remember it. And in time they will see if one or the other was being unreasonable all on their own and they will act on their own even doing things both you and your ex would rather they not do.

They are still boys
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Old January 22, 2013, 01:06 PM   #9
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You had better pay to have a ambulance chaser fight for you in court, because if you get the wrong judge you will be up a certain creek without a paddle. All you need is some activist family court judge saying you can't see your kids anymore because "You dare to let them handle dangerous weapons!".

I watched my parents go through it, my mother used the fact my father let me shoot at age 8 as a club with the judge while figuring out custody etc.
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Old January 22, 2013, 01:34 PM   #10
dlb435
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It all depends on the child. I have two grandsons, I gave one a 22 rifle at age 10. The other one I still haven't even given a pocket knife.
Take in to account size, maturity, desire to shoot and (most important) ability to follow instuctions without question.
I'd hold off until they reach the age of 8 or more. They need to be able to understand death and injury before starting to shoot.
Don't push them into someting you enjoy doing. They are individuals and that should be respected.
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Old January 22, 2013, 01:37 PM   #11
Dr Big Bird PhD
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I really really resented reading this. I am so sorry for your troubles Tomas.

It reminded me too much of the issue my parents went through. Nothing to do with firearms, but in my opinion the guns aren't the issue in this case. They're just the example of contention. :/
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Old January 22, 2013, 01:39 PM   #12
treg
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Quote:
You do have visitation, right? What you do on your own time with your boys is up to you, not her. She is the one who would need a court order to stop it
+1

Here, as long as the activity is legal she would have no say and the court would laugh at her. Same as if she tried to stop you from taking them to ride a bull or skydiving.
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Old January 22, 2013, 02:11 PM   #13
seabee78
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After all, they should be legal to hunt bt the age of eleven with an approved hunter safety course, right? I don't believe she can stop that now.

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Old January 22, 2013, 04:32 PM   #14
UtopiaTexasG19
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I suppose you have figured out by now the guns have nothing to do with her attitude. It's all a control issue.
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Old January 22, 2013, 05:05 PM   #15
jlr2267
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The courts typically like to keep the status quo, with regard to kids. If they were raised hunting and shooting with their dad, no court would interfere with that.

One thing that would hurt you though, is to not fight for your time. Courts see that as indifference and judge accordingly.

You could very likely have a guardian ad-litem appointed for your children, and his/her recommendations would carry enormous weight with a judge. If they prefer living with you, there is a very good chance that's where they'd end up.
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Old January 22, 2013, 05:25 PM   #16
wayneinFL
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If they're hunting or shooting on visits with you, why does she even have to know about it. Not saying to lie, but why bother telling her?
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Old January 22, 2013, 05:25 PM   #17
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A friend had a situation which seemed simply and felt an attorney was not necessary. Well, make along story short not only did he loose the hearing he also was charged with contempt of court. Basically he lost the case not on content, but because he failed to follow procedures and violated courtroom decorum. If you end up with any formal contact with the Court or any organization that might report to the Court please consider consulting an attorney.
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Old January 22, 2013, 06:12 PM   #18
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i applaud you tomas204 for actually wanting to spend time with your sons and not doing everything to get away from them as so many males,notice i did not say men, do theses days. i like you have 2 young sons,one age 8 and one age 2, and can sympathize with you as my wife was not raised in the gun world and its all us boys talk about. i would call whatever "bottom feeder" that you used during the divorce if you were satisfied with his performance and run things by him. it sounds like a power play to me as when you have them you can do whatever you wanna do with them within reason i'm sure.
good luck,
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Old January 22, 2013, 06:48 PM   #19
gc70
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... now she has custody of them she wants them to do nothing with me ...
That is the core of the issue, not guns. As distasteful as dealing with lawyers may be, you either fight to keep your legal rights regarding your sons or surrender to your ex-wife.
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Old January 22, 2013, 07:31 PM   #20
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Divorce proceedings and disputes can be expensive for sure. But if you want to get the most out of your agreement with peace of mind, or want to change the agreement or handle disputes you have to have an attorney or you will lose out.

If shooting when they boys are with you is legal within the terms of the agreement then no reasons she should know what happens. But the boys should not be tasked as secret keepers either, so it may come out but it should be kept low key as that is what we do on my time and its none of your business.

I know in Oregon the parent with custody has the long term decision making authority as to where they travel, what school they attend, where they live, etc. If she has 100% custody and you have visitation then you need to understand exactly what the limits are. I don't know how much the authority of custodial parent extends into visitation activities. I would think as long as the activity is legal it is OK but best to verify with the attorney. If you have shared custody then it becomes a legal nightmare as every dispute can be sent to court for a decision; that is, neither parent can decide anything without the other parent's agreement.

However you handle it, don't make your boys into the play toy the dogs fight over. If you are in the right then just explain to your boys that your time together is none of her business and they can not mention it to not rile her up. If her custody allows her to control whether an activity such as target shooting takes place and she disallows it, then find something else to do with the boys and don't burden them with how sad it is.

You can still enjoy the outdoors, talk about guns, plan hunting trips, etc. and go window shopping at gun stores for that happy day they turn 18. Four years will pass and if you kept a healthy relationship with the boys (as in not making them conflict footballs) then you have decades to enjoy guns and such together. Sad that it comes down to that sometimes but keep the long term in mind and don't burn your bridges.

Divorce is one of the saddest events for most people and there is no avoiding the pain and frustration with what could have been if only... As hard as it is you can only keep moving forward with the agreement you work out. Having an attorney available to answer basic questions can save a lot of confusion and trouble.
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Old January 22, 2013, 08:24 PM   #21
Daggitt
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Slamming on the legal profession seems to be popular on this forum. Here is some fantastic advice. Much as you may not want to hear it , a good lawyer is worth his weight in gold. At the risk of being flamed , we would have no guns and no rights but for lawyers who argued in favor of gun owners over the years, Anyone who thinks a lay person has successfully defended our second amendment rights in court without a lawyer is just plain kidding themselves. I find it incredible that jury verdicts are blamed on lawyers. The case was decided by jurors not lawyers. Did anyone even watch the OJ Simpson trial. Find yourself a good lawyer and stop taking legal advice from unknown folks on the internet. Everyone here cares about you. But they don't know anything about the law in Family court. You want to ask gun questions , come here. Going to court ? Get a lawyer , not a gun buddy. Good Luck to you and your boys. Heed my admonition. Failure to do so could cost you your kids.
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