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Old January 21, 2013, 07:29 PM   #1
mxsailor803
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Loading for Garand

I'm about to order a Garand next week and was wondering where are ya'll getting reload data for these rifles? Just trying to avoid the dreadful bent op-rod. It's mostly gonna be for plinking, so no since in trying to beat up the rifle or my shoulder.
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Old January 21, 2013, 07:37 PM   #2
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In short, use H4895 or IMR4895 or AA2495 powder and don't try to hotrod it and you'll be fine.

A little more detail: http://home.comcast.net/~jlemons01/R...ohnRClarke.pdf
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Old January 21, 2013, 07:41 PM   #3
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4064 is another popular powder. I would not go any slower though. CCI 34's are the primer I have been using although I will try some Tula's when I run out. Congratulations on the new rifle. You will have fun with it. I have a hard time believing how accurate mine is and how many admirers check it out at the range.
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Old January 21, 2013, 07:46 PM   #4
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Thanks guys. Go figure that I found a one of my old Lyman books that has load specific for the Garand. lol
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Old January 21, 2013, 08:53 PM   #5
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Hornady manual has specific load data for the Garand.

Most loads are going to be around 46.0 gr for medium powders and 168 gr bullets. In fact 46.0 gr is my most accurate load for both Varget and H4895 with 168 gr SMK.

A general rule of thumb I've read is use a medium powder between H4895 and IMR4320 and keep velocity at or below 2,700fps with a 150 gr bullet. From the load tables that works out to about 2,600fps with 168 gr bullets. Only use that as a sanity check guide not an absolute. Definitely want to start lower and work up as usual. No need to beat up your Garand so start low and find an accurate load and do not try to push the maximum end of the envelope.
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Old January 21, 2013, 08:59 PM   #6
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47gr 4895 150gr pill. Probably a few hundred through my Garand. Chrono's at 2750.
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Old January 21, 2013, 10:26 PM   #7
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It is generally recommended to load between 147-173gr bullets for the M1 Garand or M14 using standard jacketed bullet loads.

A powder in the suitable burn rate range for the action of this type of semi auto gas rifle such as IMR 4895, H4895, AA 2495, BL C2, H335, Win 748, IMR 4064 (and there are others).

30-06 data using proper powder and bullet weights for the M1/M14 will work fine from any manual. I use Winchester primers seated properly/fully.
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Old January 22, 2013, 12:02 PM   #8
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I use 47 Grains of IMR4895 under a 168 Match bullet, or 49 Grains IMR4895 under a 150 FMJ-BT. All loaded in Lake City 1962 match brass.

The article says to use Federal 210M's. I would stay away from these (at least the current vintage) as they are very soft. With the M1's floating firing pin, there have been some reports of slam fire's because of the soft primer.

I have had no issue with slam fires with Winchester large rifle, or CCI Large Rifle.
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Old January 22, 2013, 11:47 PM   #9
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150gr FMJ
49 gr IMR4895
Lake City brass
Always end up with a punishing bruise. I dont know if there is a such thing as .30-06 and a non-beatup shoulder.
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Old January 23, 2013, 08:37 AM   #10
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99% of the slam fires in M1's (and M14's, M1A's) have been caused by insufficient hammer-sear engagement or improper trigger finger control. Having seen a few dozen ejected cases from slam fires in them, all had a full depth dimple from the firing pin getting a normal, full impact from the hammer. They looked exactly the same as normally fired ones and had the same shape and dimensions.

I've seen a lot of rounds with Federal primers lightly dimpled by impact of the floating firing pin when the bolt closed normally in semiauto fire. Many were quite deep but none enough to fire them. To say nothing of the 10s of thousands of rounds of Federal .308 Win. match ammo fired in these rifles without incident.

Improper finger control is when the shooter's firing hand grip on the stock's not enough and the trigger finger isn't held back hard against the stop until the rifle's stopped moving from recoil. That finger moves forward a bit and as the rifle starts moving forward after recoil, that finger stays in place. The rifle moves forward enough to disengage the sear and the hammer falls. Sometimes, this is called "doubling" if two shots are fired in near full auto speed.

1% are caused by the receiver's safety bridge being worn too much and lets the firing pin go too far forward before the bolt's in battery.

Until someone shows me a slam fired case with only a slightly dimpled primer, I rest my case.

Meanwhile, back to loads used.........

Some favorite load used by militry rifle teams were:

*44 grains of IMR4320 in an 7.62 M118 primed match case under a Sierra 190 for converted M1's.

*M80 7.62 ammo's 147 gr. bullet replaced with a Sierra 168 or military 172 gr. match bullet (a virtual copy of the military proof load producing 65,000 cup) for both M1's and M14's.

M118 7.62 round's bullet replaced with a Sierra 180 for both rifles.

M72 30 caliber match ammo's bullet replaced with a Western or Sierra 180 gr. match bullet for Garands.

47 gr. of IMR4064 in .30-06 case under a Sierra 168 or 180 match bullet.

Gizmo688, thousands of folks have worn out a few Garand barrels and never once had a sore, beat up, or otherwise painful shoulder. One of 'em typing these words.
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Old January 23, 2013, 06:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
1% are caused by the receiver's safety bridge being worn too much and lets the firing pin go too far forward before the bolt's in battery.
I have read posts of Bart Bobbitt all the way back from 1994, http://yarchive.net/gun/rifle/garand_slamfire.html, and it is apparent that Bart Bobbit is a product of his times.

Bart dates back from those generations who were taught by NRA authority figures that the only cause of slamfires were “high primers” and “worn receiver bridges”. These authority figures were the retired Army and Ordnance employees who worked the for American Rifleman. The American Rifleman technical staff did not acknowledge primer sensitivity as a cause of slamfires. I went through every American Rifleman magazine from the late 50's up to 2000 and primer sensitivity as a cause is only touched on briefly in Wayne Faatz’s article “The Mysterious Slamfire”. http://www.scribd.com/doc/2649554/Th...rious-Slamfire and the whole concept repudiated years later by a lead staff writer. The only allowed causes of slamfires by that author were high primers and worn out receiver bridges.

This is puzzling as their most knowledgeable Staff writers had worked for Army Ordnance, at least one of them worked at Frankfort Arsenal for decades and I have copies of letters William Davis (NRA writer) sent out to all American Ammunition manufacturers concerning his study of primer sensitivity and the AR15. If you don’t remember, early AR15’s slamfired which resulted in the Army specifying a less sensitive primer and a lighter firing pin. These ex Frankfort Arsenal employees also went through development of the lead styphnate primer, something that was tested over years concerning issues you never thought of, including weapon system character tics and primer sensitivities. I have a couple of these reports. The lead Staff Expert at the NRA actually ran the Smalls Arms Test Division at Aberdeen after WW2 when all prototype rifles were tested (and there were lots of them) leading to the selection of the M14.

And yet with all this background in ammunition manufacture, investigations into primer initiated slamfires, they never mentioned primer sensitivity as a factor in slamfires in the Garand or M14.

Civilians did not know about AR15 slamfires at the time, the mass importation of military surplus rifles with heavy free floating firing pins had not occurred. Such rifles include the Tokarev, AK47, SKS’s, MAS49/56 and you can easily find slamfire reports on them. And of course there was no internet for shooters to compare notes. The American Rifleman staff controlled the in print theoretical discussion about slamfires by only publishing dope bag articles and accounts that supported their contentions that only high primers and worn receiver bridges cause slamfires.

It is apparent that the Garand mechanism slamfired with factory ammunition from its earliest day. This is a picture of the rare round Garand firing pin. This firing pin is rare because it was replaced in the early 40’s with a lighter weight firing pin we are all so familar.



The pictures below show the scalloped Garand firing pin, the later M14 firing pin and the M1 Carbine firing pin.



The Army could not desensitize 30-06 primers to match the operating characteristics of the heavy round firing pin, because the same ammunition was used in many other mechanisms, and those weapons would misfire with insensitive primers, so to reduce kinetic impact, material was removed material from the Garand firing pin.

It is obvious that the lighter firing pin did not prevent all firing pin initated slamfires, and reports of Garand slamfires with factory ammunition are easily found. The Italians made the M1 Garand mechanism for the Danes and ended up making a full auto version for themselves; the BM 59. It is obvious they were aware of M1 slamfires so when they made the BM 59 the Italians added a firing pin spring around the firing pin to reduce the impact energy of the firing pin on the primer.

The M1 carbine was the first of its class and if you look at the primer sensitivity of 30 Carbine primers, the average ignition drop height requirement is much higher than that of 30-06 primers. That is why the Army was able to use a round firing pin in the carbine, nether the less, M1 carbines slamfire, and like Garands/M14’s they also slamfire out of battery as well as in battery.


Slamfires can and have happened with all rifle primers. Anytime you have a free floating firing pin hitting a primer there is a chance that the primer will ignite. You can buy primers that are on average less sensitive, but neither you or the primer manufacturer can guarantee the primer sensitivity of each individual primer. In fact, primer sensitivity varies significantly within each lot. Federals were then, and are now, the most slamfiring primer in Garands and M1a’s.

This is the dimple raised by feeding the rounds from the clip in a Garand. Any mechanism capable to dimpling a primer that deep is quite capable of igniting a sensitive primer.






Notice how many rounds the guy fires. If he had a mechanical problem he would have recurring slamfires, but he did not. When you see the slamfire, notice that the finger is not on the trigger. He was running Federal American Eagle (federal primers) and Winchester ammo.

Tavor 21 Slamfire video on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu8Dwj7Ey8k

And the rifle does not have a receiver bridge, never did, never has.
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Old January 23, 2013, 07:15 PM   #12
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I no longer believe that the receiver bridge is a safety device, older M1 Carbine manual call it a firing pin retraction cam and that is all that it is. The idea that it prevents contact between the firing pin and primer is an invention of those NRA staff writers. It does not and it is an easily tested contention as I have done with three receivers I got from the CMP.

These receivers were built up with all correct parts, and not only all correct, but my expert friends down there chose parts that were correct for the serial number ranges.




I wanted to test just how much, if at all, the receiver bridge retracted the firing pin. I used a spring loaded stick and placed it alternatively on the firing pin, forcing it against the receiver bridge, or pushed the bolt forward, with the firing pin tang resting against the receiver bridge.

Spring loaded stick




Stick on bolt, pushing it forward



Bolt pushed forward




Gap between lug and receiver




Stick on firing pin tang lugs to seat

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Old January 23, 2013, 07:17 PM   #13
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Lugs in receiver seats, firing pin forward



On every receiver the firing pin is extended through the bolt face during cam down. The firing pin tip could be felt just when the tang touched the receiver bridge, it could be felt in front of the bolt face during cam down.

This receiver bridge is not an effective preventative to firing pin contact with the primer and I don’t think it ever was supposed to be.

Firing pin through bolt face at thickest section of receiver bridge



Slight firing pin in front of bolt face before firing pin goes through receiver bridge.



This pencil mark showing when firing pin clears receiver bridge notch. The firing pin is free to impact the primer very early in cam down.



It is my contention that those NRA Technical staff employees were very aware that Garand mechanisms slamfire without user misconduct, but they never mentioned it. Instead they created a misdirection campaign that pushed faults of the basic mechanism onto the user.

Yes, bumping the trigger has caused doubling, but this mechanism will not fire out of battery when the hammer falls. Yes, mechanical malfunctions have caused doubling, but these are not subtle and when M1a’s doubled, we pulled the rifle from the firing line . But firing initiated slamfires are the most subtle and most dangerous as they are totally unpredictable and the mechanism will slamfire out of battery, which is very dangerous to the shooter.
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Old January 23, 2013, 10:00 PM   #14
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Slamfires claims:
Quote:
Bart dates back from those generations who were taught by NRA authority figures that the only cause of slamfires were “high primers” and “worn receiver bridges”.
Wrong. I was never trained by any NRA authority figure. Nor was I trained that the only cause of slamfires were “high primers” and “worn receiver bridges”. I was trained by military armourers (Don McCoy, for one) who rebuilt, repaired and solved problems with Garands. None had any affiliation with the NRA's publications. They're the ones who showed my how insufficient sear-hammer engagement was a cause of slamfires; that's never been mentioned in any magazine I know of. And bullets seated too long in handload may also cause slamfires in Garands; the unit had a new presentation grade Garand that slamfired with a handload with a 190 seated 50 thousandths too long.

That's strike one.

That aside, your pictures of a Garand's working parts are very good. Two questions. How much head clearance would a normal service round have in the chamber with the bolt pictured as "Lugs in receiver seats, firing pin forward?" And how far does the firing pin protrude from the bolt face?
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Old January 23, 2013, 10:20 PM   #15
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That aside, your pictures of a Garand's working parts are very good. Two questions. How much head clearance would a normal service round have in the chamber with the bolt pictured as "Lugs in receiver seats, firing pin forward?" And how far does the firing pin protrude from the bolt face?
You tell me.
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Old January 23, 2013, 10:22 PM   #16
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Looks like pin protrusion's about 10 thousandths. But it's hard to tell exactly. I thought you would have a dimension as that would be helpful understanding the clearance issues. Head clearance may be the same. Both are critical to this issue as the round's shoulder is typically hard against the chamber shoulder for the last several thousandths of bolt travel.

That "Gap between lug and receiver" picture showing a .008" measurement will never be that much when the bolt closes on a live round; even with a chamber at maximum GO gauge headspace and case with minimum headspace. It'll be near, if not exactly, zero as the bolt starts to rotate into battery on a live round. There's several parts in the front of the bolt that makes that happen when a round's chambered.

Show me a picture of a slam fired case from a Garand with the primer dimpled just a little bit, not a full depth dimple form normal firing and you've got my attention. All the slam fired cases from M1's and M14's I've seen have had normal, full depth dimpled primers.
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Old January 24, 2013, 09:47 AM   #17
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Bart: Forgive me as I thought you were going to be argumentative and I signed off in a huff. And I thought you knew the firing pin protrusion and were playing a cat and mouse game with me.

According to the July 1961 American Rifleman article “Function of M1 Bolt Assembly”, which is the first to suggest that high primers were causing slamfires in M1’s, the firing pin tip protrusion with the firing pin in the fired position is from 0.044” to 0.050”. That is a book value and I have not measured any of mine to verify that the as built meets print.

However, I don’t think these values are of much use as the system is a dynamic system, but I will show the relationship between receiver seat and bolt lug just as the firing pin tang touches the receiver bridge

For the education of those who don’t know, the M1 carbine receiver bridge is functionally identical to the M1/M14 bridge, just cut different.




I took these pictures as a fully extended firing tang touched the thickest section of the bridge, just prior to cam down. Something to note, as the bolt rotates, the bridge gets thinner and firing pin tip protrusion increases.






M1a Receiver



Anyone can see that maybe there are thousandth’s of an inch of movement forward on that bolt, and yet the firing pin is sticking out maybe 0.05” out of the bolt face.

This is where out of battery slamfires take place in these mechanisms. The firing pin is fully able to rebound off the back of a primer before cam down.

This can be due to bolt bounce, binding of the case in chamber, interference fit between case and chamber, and probably some other things that would be revealed with a high speed camera.

Once cam down occurs there is still some amount of firing pin protrusion all the way to battery.

Now Bart, my two out of battery slamfires both had nice deep rounded primers, and yet the trigger mechanisms are still in use and have never followed. I don’t know why Garand/M14 slamfires produce deep indentations but they do.

Primer sensitivity is the primary cause of slamfires that cannot be explained by mechanical malfunctions, such as broken firing pins. I do not consider hammer following as a true slamfire, but the rifle will fire, so maybe it is. I do not consider trigger bumping as a true slamfire as the shooter pulled the trigger and the mechanism did what it is supposed to when the trigger is pulled.

Like other semi auto mechanisms with free floating firing pins, I know slamfire probablity was controlled by primer sensitivity. Which is why these mechanisms have the most reported slamfires with the most sensitive primers on the market: Federal. However slamfires have been reported with all American primer brands and that is due to the fact that primer sensitivity varies within the lot. Any idea that there are mechanical interlocks that prevent slamfires in this mechanism is a fabrication that started in the late 50's.
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Old January 24, 2013, 05:56 PM   #18
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Where's the case head surface when the bolt's closing on a live round and is in the position shown below when a round's single loaded, when a full clip's loaded and when the second through eighth round from a clip's chambered?

Back hard against the bolt face?

In front of the extractor claw as it's being pushed forward into the chamber by that claw as well as the ejector?

Half way between the above two choices?
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Old January 24, 2013, 06:29 PM   #19
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I've never used anything but IMR4895, capped with 150- or 168-grain bullets.
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Old January 24, 2013, 09:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Where's the case head surface when the bolt's closing on a live round and is in the position shown below when a round's single loaded, when a full clip's loaded and when the second through eighth round from a clip's chambered?

Back hard against the bolt face?

In front of the extractor claw as it's being pushed forward into the chamber by that claw as well as the ejector?

Half way between the above two choices?
Or all three?

This rifle is not a controlled round feed so would not the location of the case head vary?

Something that I have not figured out, and maybe you can tell me, is why Garands in good mechanical condition have slamfired out of battery when fired single shot, standing, with GI ball? I have a few accounts of shooters who put LC ammunition in the chamber of a rack grade Garand, dropped the bolt, and the rifle slamfired out of battery.

I suspect there is bolt bounce going on, but what is your opinion?
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Old January 24, 2013, 09:53 PM   #21
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Slamfire, the case head's in front of the extractor claw as well as the lower lip of the bolt face (which picks up a new round from the clip) all the way forward with the bolt. When the case shoulder stops against the chamber shoulder, the extractor lip opens up and slides over the case rim and at the same time the ejector is pressing against the case. You can measure the distance from the bolt face to the bolt's forward most parts that push the case into the chamber to get an idea of how far the bolt has to close on a round before it goes all the way into battery.

As soon as the extractor lip goes forward enough, it snaps into the extractor groove on the case head in front of the rim. If you slowly watch the extractor slide over a case head while slowly closing the bolt on one, you'll see when the extractor's in place relative to where the right bolt lug is in its cutout on the receiver.

Without examining the rifles having an out of battery slam fire, I'm not going to speculate as to their cause; several reasons are at stake. But one is a frozen firing pin by an obstruction in the bolt locking it into place. But something is probably way out of proper timing. Or with handloads, a piece of grit under a high primer that made it fire as the bolt was closing on it. And I would want to check the slam fired round's primer dimples, too.

Regarding the claims that Federal primers have been in the most slam fired Garands, I would want to see the ratio of rounds fired with a given primer versus slam fires with it to get a realistic number. What if 10 times as many Federal primers were used in handloads than all the others put together? Most of the slam fires I've seen cases from have all been with arsenal 7.62 NATO ball and match ammo with MIL SPEC primers from M1, M14 and M1A rifles
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Old January 24, 2013, 10:25 PM   #22
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I don't know about Garands, but I do know federal primers have a reputation for slam fires in AR-10's, although Crane just chose the Fed GMM primer for the new Mk316 sniper load. The SR-25/M110 rifle has a free floating firing pin, as do all the M14 EBR variants out there.

So take that for what it is worth I guess.

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Old January 25, 2013, 08:00 AM   #23
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There are firearms with spring-loaded floating firing pins to keep them from accelerating forward and striking industry-known primers with soft cups as the breech goes into battery on a chambered round. They've been around long before the Garand was designed. It's been suggested that those without these springs be modified to have them. Yes, a radical idea. So was once the thought of moving in any vehicle faster than 100 mph.
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Old January 25, 2013, 09:16 AM   #24
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Quote:
Regarding the claims that Federal primers have been in the most slam fired Garands, I would want to see the ratio of rounds fired with a given primer versus slam fires with it to get a realistic number. What if 10 times as many Federal primers were used in handloads than all the others put together? Most of the slam fires I've seen cases from have all been with arsenal 7.62 NATO ball and match ammo with MIL SPEC primers from M1, M14 and M1A rifles
You remember, “back in the day”, just how many people used Federals because it was the only primer around sold in a box with the word “Match”. It is also the most sensitive primer on the market, Federal has been proud to state that, as I am sure you remember from the advertizing you have seen.

As someone tabulating a round count of all rounds fired versus slamfires, by brand, if I pass a hat around do you think I could get that funded? I would be very happy to create a large bureaucracy with a huge budget, high salary for me, trim long legged staff members, and an unlimited travel budget. But such privileges are reserved for Congress and Bank CEO’s, so I don’t think it is going to happen.

I have done my own study by copying accounts of slamfires posted on the web. There is a lot of “noise” from posters, they apply the theories they know to explain the event, usually all the circumstances are not described, but patterns fall out.




Quote:
Garand Slamfire with LC 69

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=264020


“While the M1 and M14/M1A do have the "web", slam fires are still possible and can be catastrophic. I was lucky enough to come through one with a GI Springfield M1 from the DCM about 20 years ago using LC 69 issue ammo. The rifle held together for the most part, but did fire out of battery on loading a single round in slow fire. If it had been in a rapid fire string, I most likely would not be typing this right now. The rear of the receiver from just aft of the serial number was blown off and the stock cracked with a big chunk blown out of it. The bolt was jammed into the back of the receiver and would not come forward. The op rod handle ripped the palm of my hand open, and you could read the head stamp of the case in reverse on my palm. The recovered empty case was about an inch long. Never did find the rear of the receiver. The DCM took the rifle back and never did tell me what they determined went wrong. They replaced it with a brand new, and I mean, brand new, never issued H&R.

If you shoot either the M1 or M14, I would highly suggest you either use a SLED with the M1 or load single rounds from the mag on the M1A. Reloads should use the harder primers, like CCI, and I check mine with a seating gage. ”







308 Garand Slamfires with Military Match Ammunition.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/...66&r=615101566

“In the summer of 1968 or 69 the Atlantic Fleet Rifle Matches were plagued with slamfires using .308 Match ammo. Seems a terrible long time ago, and I still get upset about it because I lost my best and only chance to leg out on that cartridge. I was in the first relay at 500 yards (not 600 because the Annapolis range only went out to 500), and someone else popped off the first slamfire and dumped a bullet into Chesapeake Bay. I think I was the second or third to do so, and dropped my score from winner to first leather. The range officer did not allow a refire for any of us in first relay. By the second relay, the ammo malfunction was quite evident, and refires were given, but nothing was done for those of us in first relay. Slamfires popped all afternoon, was not a pretty sight. On examination, and believe me everyone was looking at ammo that day, the decision was a batch of overly sensitive primers. I guarantee, a slamfire can run your entire day!!!”


From Old Culver’s forum:

I opt for the #34. A number of my friends who shoot the Garand regularly use LR primers. One who specializes in ballistics for a large ammunition mfr says it is imperative to have the primer seated .005", no less but a std LR primer is safe.

The # 34 will not save you from the many mistakes that can be made with a Garand, but will add some insurance against death or severe injuries that can occur even when you have all the safety bases covered.

I started shooting the Garand in 1958 in service, was a unit armorer, have owned and fired Garands for close to 50 years.

One slam fire is enough to coax a person out of complacency. Fortunately, the bolt gouged into the receiver a third way back so my right hand and arm were the only recipients of countless tiny pieces of hot brass. Since I was old enough for the doctors not to worry about blood poisoning over time, they left the brass in the tissue.

The cartridge was a 'Garand safe' commercial match round. Two gunsmiths found nothing to indicate a problem with the rifle, but after checking the primers/seating depth surmised that the firing pin dimpled-fired the LR primer in the round.

That occurred in 1999 and since then I have fired over 8,000 rounds through several Garand's, all using CCI #34 and have not had any problems. I think the major authors/gunsmiths who specialize in the Garand will tell you to use the #34.

If you really get curious about primer seating depth, mic some Lake City milsurp, some commercial Match ammo and some of your own loads, if you load. If you have any of the LC, a quick visual will show you that the primers are seated quite a bit deeper than any commercial ammo. And they are mil-spec primers, less sensitive than std LR commercial primers.



Garand Slamfires with Federal American Eagle ammunition.


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=366406

dmftoy1
Senior Member


Join Date: 11-17-03
Location: Lexington, IL
Posts: 1,947 FWIW if you're going to use commercial ammo (non-nato) I would not single load if you decide to do any service rifle matches as the softer primers (IMHO) are a greater risk of a slam fire. I was recently shooting next to a guy shooting Federal American Eagle 150 grain (30-06) in a Garand and he had a slam fire upon releasing the bolt. I think if you're loading from a magazine you're probably ok as the extra "drag" slows down the bolt slightly.

Just my .02

Regards,
Dave

Garand Slamfire, likely Federal Match Primers.

http://www.thecmp.org/forums/showthr...?t=8784&page=3
22 Feb 2010

Today, 03:52 AM
mopardoctor
Member Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Fife, Wa
Posts: 64


________________________________________
I was laying next to another shooter on the 300yd line when he had a slam fire on his Garand. He was shooting it as a match rifle and had a globe front site on it. The shock of the bolt slamming back whipped the rifle so hard the front site broke off the base and went flying. I found the case later on the other side of my position and gave it back to the owner. The shoulder and neck were blown out all the way to the end of the case and the end was then rounded to a 30 caliber hole. He said he was using "match primers". Other than the broken front sight there seemed to be no other damage.




Garands Doubling with Federal Ammunition

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread....light=slamfire

08-07-2011, 07:01 PM
huudoo
CMP Customer Join Date: May 2011
Location: East TN
Posts: 119
Feedback Score: 2 reviews, 100%


WHAT CAUSED a DOUBLE TAP
________________________________________
was shooting today and got a double tap kinda
inspected the casing and found this with the primer
also clip ejected after the 5th round
ammo is BVAC m1 garand, purchased from CTD

i have shot about 200 rds of m2 hxp with no issues
the BVAC mmo case at the rin is smaller than the hxp

would the bolt cause this, or me pulling the trigger to soon
or the ammo ....

and how do you stripp the bolt withOUT the tool

BVAC – Bitterroot Valley http://www.bvac-ammo.com/

CTD- Cheaper than Dirt


http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread....lamfire&page=3

08-08-2011, 11:05 AM
normannewguy
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 105
Feedback Score: 0 reviews



________________________________________
Are you shooting Federal M1 30-06 rounds? If you are I had a thread on them last year and was experincing the same propblem. I finally contacted Fedreal and told them what was going on and they bought back both cases of ammo that I had bought.
Do some testing run HXP, Black Hills Gold, and Hornandy Amax through it. If they function fine with no doubles its the ammo



2008 slamfire with Greek HXP 88 30-06 ammunition.
http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/reloa...ad=31735#31762

Re: M1 Garand / Hang fire ?
Levisdad <Send E-Mail> -- Tues 3 Jun 2008 8:54 am
Yep 1988, Lot hxp 88j001-002
I also had a slamfire out of this same lot a short time ago.
The slamfire was from closing the bolt using a two round clip. It was the second stage of rapid prone. I've fired 200 rds after that with out a problem. Until the two hangfires.


Slamfire with HXP 20 Feb 2010

http://www.thecmp.org/forums/showthr...?t=8784&page=2

Today, 09:03 AM
chevycrazy69
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 11


________________________________________
I have had one slamfire with a M1 garand. I was single loading during the sighters portion of a NRA high power match. Sure scared the crap out of me. I put the garand down and finished the match with my AR. I was using HXP ball. I have no idea what caused the slam fire. It has made me much more careful in how fast I let the bolt forward during single loading. I have fired hundreds of rounds (both reloads and ball) in that garand since without a single problem. I have used CCI 34 primers in all my garand reloads since. Do I feel it is needed, no. But I am a design engineer and like to take a "belt and suspender" approach to my safety. I do use winchester small rifle primers in my AR and have for many thousands of rounds. I wish I knew if that particular HXP round had a high primer or not.


http://handgunsandammo.proboards.com...ay&thread=9424


M1 Garand woes...
« Thread Started on May 2, 2010, 4:39am »
________________________________________
Well, today I got to attend a super-awesome marksmanship clinic on how to improve our positions for highpower shooting using sling support. I learned *a lot* The big take away was to really practice and stick to the fundamentals and get those things down.

The icing on the cake was to be a course of fire. I was using my treasured M1 Garand rifle and 1980 HXP Greek M2 150gr. ball ammunition. During the slow fire prone I was putting individual cartridges in the chamber, and then closing the bolt. During this exercise, I had an out of battery cartridge detonation. Confused and shocked me a bit, but fortunately the rifle was pointed down range, and the fired cartridge case jumped out backwards, sailed past me and hit me in the arm/torso/leg area. The primer was pimpled out and extruded a bit, but otherwise everything held together. The diagnosis was that the firing pin may have become elongated and may need replacing. I hope it is something simple. I switched to firing an unfamiliar M1 rifle, and encountered the frustration of not really knowing where it hit, and having to make adjustments on the fly. Then I had five cartridges and a magazine jump out of the rifle half-way after the third shot was fired. Then I shot an off-hand string, which was all over the paper, and I realized belatedly that the gas cylinder and the attached sights were loose and free to slide fore and aft!

So it was frustrating, to say the least. I've literally never had any issue or problem with an M1 apart from a cartridge case buckling and causing a stoppage once, and i stopped using that brand of ammo and never had a repeat. But today was clearly not my day.

Thoughts?


Read more: http://handgunsandammo.proboards.com...#ixzz1268Lr7Uw

Garand Slamfires with Greek Ammunition

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7446022

Yesterday, 07:53 PM #6

ArchAngelCD
Member


Join Date: November 25, 2006
Location: PA, USA
Posts: 9,272 Almost forgot to mention this, I bought 6 cans of Greek M1 ammo from CMP. In the second can I opened I actually had 3 slam-fires from 3 different clips. Didn't happen with ammo in the first can, didn't happen again with the rest of the ammo from that can or the next 2 cans of ammo I used. (192 rounds per can, 768 total rounds) Go figure, never happened to me with my reloads using standard CCI and Winchester primers as well as CCI #34 primers but I got 3 with ammo specifically loaded for the Garand by a government arsenal!

Garand Slamfires with Greek Ammunition 28 July 2012


Slamfire and kaboom DQ's me from CMP match today!
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=82071

________________________________________
So, at todays 200 yard CMP match i get about 8 rds downrange and the next round fails to ignite. I pull the op rod back and it does not pull the cartridge out. I look at the cartridge face and there's no dimple at all on the primer so i pull the bolt back and let it slam home (like i do for every shot in slow fire prone). Well, the rifle fires when the bolt hits the cartridge sending a round into the dirt 10 yards infront of the line. I am certain my finger was not on the trigger as i have good trigger discipline and my method of single shot fire requires 2 hands as a leftie with no single shot sled. When i look into the magazine/ chamber i see loose parts, specifically the slider on the follower slide assembly has been sheared off and is bouncing around in there.

I'm using greek HXP, ammo, since there was No primer strike mark on the. artridge before the slam fire should i rule that out as the cause?




Garand Slamfire with Federal Primers

http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/reloa...mes;read=31870


Soft Primers Easy Slamfire? http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...Number=1321745

I suppose that this reply will show age on my part, but here goes. I carry a scar on my right palm from 13 stitches due to a slam fire back in the 80's. The rifle was a Match Grade M-1 Garand. Shooting NRA highpower requires 22 shots slow fire from 200 yds in the first stage. Loading a Garand single shot is no monumental task, but here is how it all happened.
While shooting the offhand stage, I was at my 6th shot for record with everything going fine. I slid #6 into the chamber, depressed the follower to allow the bolt to run home, and turned loose of the op rod. The bolt moved forward until it hit the rear of the follower and stopped. This is where i made my mistake. Rather than using my thumb to pop the op rod handle, I opted to bump it with the palm of my hand. Upon closing and partially locking into battery, the firing pin tapped the primer and ignited it. The op rod handle slammed into my palm and opened it up like a sardine can. Wrapped up the hand, went to the saw bones, and 13 stitches later I a fixed man.
That year I personally witnessed 2 other slam fires in matches. All with M-1 garands, and all using Federal 210M primers. One of the other guys has a scar identical to mine, the other person was smarter and got his meat hook out of the way. I notified Federal at the time of my accident to see if they had changed anything in their primer cups. They wanted me to send my rifle back for inspection, but I declined since I was shooting matches with it. Later that year I see an article in American Rifleman about how they had thickened their primer cups due to this problem.
I've never heard of slam fires on M-1A's, M-14's, or Ar's, but feel that it's allways a possibility. After my incident, I learned to allways bump the op rod with my thumb, palm up. That way all meat is out of the way.
You can readily tell if a Garand has ever slam fired. When it happens, it blows the windage knob clear off the sight and removes the top corner of the right locking lug recess in the receiver. I hope I've cleared this up for some. Kevin
_________________________


Slamfire Due to Extra Heavy Recoil Spring
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...21#post3977721
Today, 01:21 AM #1

bamaranger
Senior Member

Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 765 garand slam fire?
________________________________________
I am experiencing slam fires in my Garand, after changing the op rod from GI to heavy duty after market. My ammo is properly headspaced, primer pockets uniformed, and uses mil-spec hard skinned primers. I think my ammo is OK. I have reinstalled the GI spring, but have not made it out to shoot again since the slam fire experience. (hey, I always wanted to shoot a BAR!)

My diagnosis is the heavy spring 'caused the prob. I thought I'd made a change to ease wear and tear, but believe I have created a (dangerous) problem. B..B..Bang , PING, what a trip.

Questions:
-Has anybody else experienced a slam fire after an op rod spring change?

-Is there a std for the weight of an op rod spring (lbs pull) The GI spring seems weak, the heavy duty very stiff. What's "right" and how is it determined?

-Tell me what else I should consider, firing pin protrusion, disconnector.....?
I think these parts are OK, as the problem occurred AFTER the spring change, but, can I check them for spec, at home. I do have another trigger group that I can swap out.




Garand Slamfire with Winchester Primers
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=39841

July 12th, 2010, 07:18 PM #16

Drmsparks
Old School Rifleman



Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: PG county
Posts: 4,489
Images: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambo
I had a Slam-fire occur with my Garand when I was using Winchester Primers. The Cup Metal is to soft in those for use in Military Rifles. I now use the CCI #34 and haven't had that problem since.
Ditto. We have had a rash of slamfires (and blown primers) with the hornady garand match ammo. According to Hornady they were winchester primers.


__________________
RIP


Garand Doubling with Federal Factory Ammunition
http://m14forum.com/ammunition/10706...rand-safe.html
Be careful with Federal M1 ammo. I had two cases of it and experienced nothing but doubles with. Replaced trigger group , firing pin and still doubling. Finally called federal to ask about this and there rep asked how much ammo I had left. I told him and he said box it up and I'll give you a preprinted shipping card and the cost of the ammo back. In all my life Ive never had an ammo company buy anything back. This was 2yrs ago but would still be wary of it.

When I had my problem with Federal I tryed HXP, Black Hills,and GI Lake City Surplus , handloads with CCI #34 primers. All of it functioned fine except the Federal and I kept getting doubles with it Federal. Myabe I got a bad lot I don't know



Garand Slamfire with Federal Primers

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...hlight=federal

Mine was once more than nine years ago and it rattled my faith in the old girl for sure - I mean it's a GARAND!

It was the first round of a full clip and the rifle closed all the way (as far as I could tell) so the only damage was to my trust in things. The round went downrange safely - even hit my target backer although I hadn't set into aiming the shot. It fed the next round just fine which was also Federal primed and didn't fire that one. I unloaded the rifle.

I set that rifle aside for the day as I wasn't sure what had happened. Another shooter asked me about the primer used and told me for the first time I'd heard it that Federal primers were too sensitive to use in semi-auto rifles. I didn't know any better and still am not sure of it but I've never had one slamfire using Winchester or CCI priming. I know that one incident isn't enough to substantiate a blanket condemnation but seeing you say it struck home for me.

There didn't seem to be anything wrong with the rifle and that's been proved out over a couple thousand rounds since, so I've taken it on faith and not used a Federal primer in any of my Garand rifles since.

It's a Springfield Armory, 1-55 date barrel but it isn't original to the receiver, though it came from CMP on another receiver that I converted to 7.62. It measures like a new one and has three "P" stamps, one "T" stamp, the small "m" and "A217B" on it. A couple of people have thought that it was a barrel designated for NM use, but I don't know any of that. It IS a good shooting barrel though.

I only know that nothing about the barrel or the receiver (so far as I can tell)contributed to that slamfire episode. To play it safe I took a little cut to take the headspace out to just short of my "No-Go" gauge because it had felt a little resistant closing on my 'Go' gauge and I thought maybe that could have brought the slamfire. It was probably just my worrying.

I use an old set of RCBS dies, hand prime with a Lee Auto-prime (or whatever it's called) to be sure of my primer set. The round was good but it had Federal No.210 priming and not being able to find another reason for that slamfire I switched to Winchester primers for the rest of my loading for the caliber.
It's been a lot of years since I shot high power matches so now I'm content to shoot CMP ammo, the Greek stuff these days


Garand Slamfires with Federal Primers
01-07-2009, 04:55 PM
SGT D USMC
FNG Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: oregon
Posts: 13


________________________________________
I had a slam fire in a M1. feel free to disreguard this post because few shooters have first hand knowledge, and even fewer have had one. It only happens to others so why worry, except if you are using federal match (very accrate) primers in a gas gun, You are playing russian roulette. My slam fire was in the mid 1980's. It was with a Federal match primer. I got very involved in this and found 17 cases of M1 slam fires with one common factor, ALL WERE WITH FEDERAL MATCH PRIMERS.


Posts: 161
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:19 pm
Location: VA


Garand Slamfire fire with Federal primer

http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/v...1311&p=1065258

Re: M1/M14/M1A "SLAM FIRE" QUESTION?
by wdial » Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:41 am
When I first got my M1 I was just as giddy as can be. I had not yet received my ammo from CMP so I put some of my reloads into a few clips. I then thought about what that would do to the M1 so I took the rounds back out but hand cycling the weapon. About the 3rd round I let go of the slide and it went off on one of my '1/10 grain below max' rounds. The primers were seated properly and the rounds were all perfectly sized. Only thing I can figure is the Federal large rifle primers I was using are soft. I've now used CCI (I know their about the same company), Remington Winchester and a few others and never had a problem. I have not bought the "hard" primers and the controvery over weither or not hard primers are worth it still goes on. I've found that Federals seem to be a bit softer and just don't use them in my free floating rifles. Heck, honestly my of my reloads go into the bolt guns or my handguns.
Girls, God, Guns and Glory
.45/Pie/AK


Out of Battery Slamfire in 308 Garand with Federal Gold Medal Match July 2012

http://www.jouster.com/forums/showth...minor-accident

Hey Gents: I have a .308 M1. Rebuilt shoots great! Had a minor problem in May at a MCL rifle match. Morning match I shot pretty well for me. 98/ 4x in prone so rifle performed well with PPU surplus. Afternoon match was just starting up. I changed ammo to Federal Gold match. Command to load a single round for sighters. I was doing this in the prone. I chambered the round the released the bolt. As is a common trait of this rifle the bolt stopped on the follower. I used the heal of my hand to kick the bolt handle. Warning! do not do this with a .308! Bolt began to close and the cartrige went off with the bolt out of battery. The bolt handle came back and caught the meaty part of my palm under my thumb and tore it open pretty well. The shell casing sheared off about 2/3 of the way down. We found both parts. Still have to get the rifle in to the guy who built it to make sure the receiver is OK. This was not the somewhat standard slam fire. Any thoughts? BTW Federal was very nice and professional dealing with this and tested the rest of the ammunition.

Or you can do what FM 23-5 has said to do since 1936. Here's the 1951 version:

"TO OPERATE THE RIFLE AS A SINGLE LOADER

With the receiver empty, pull the operating rod to the rear until it is caught by the operating rod catch. With the right hand, place one round in the chamber, seating it with the thumb. With the palm of the right hand against the receiver, the rear edge of the right hand against the operating rod handle, the fingers extended, joined, and pointing downward, force the operating rod handle slightly to the rear; push down the follower with the right thumb; and permit the bolt to ride forward about one inch over the follower. Then remove the thumb from the follower and release the operating rod handle. The operating rod must be allowed to go forward by the force of its expanding spring. It must not be slowed in its forward movement by contact with the hand. If the operating rod is not completely released, the bolt may not lock; when this occurs, the rifle may not fire when the trigger is squeezed."






DCM Garand slamfires out of battery with LC69 ammo

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-178109.html

AK103K
January 21st, 2006, 05:17 PM
My right hand got tore up pretty good when my DCM Garand went hand grenade. I'm just glad it happened when I was single loading it, we never found the rear of the receiver, which I have a feeling would have ended up in my head. The worst part of the whole thing was, it happened in New Jersey and trying to convince the people at the hospital that it wasnt a "gun shot" wound and no need to bring the police into it.


AK103K
January 21st, 2006, 09:03 PM
I believe it slam fired. The recovered case was missing the front half, which leads me to believe it fired out of battery. The ammo was DCM issued GI Lake City 69 and not commercial 30-06 or reloads. I sent it back to Anniston and they never did tell me what they thought the cause was. They did send me a brand new H&R though. I still shoot M1's, but I no longer load single rounds by allowing the bolt to go home on its own, and anymore, I usually use a SLED. I also only use CCI primers when I do reload, for both my M1 and M1A's, and I also mike the primers.

edit to add: I dont believe that the M1 and M1A's firing pins can protrude or reach the primer, due to a slotted bridge in the receiver, that wont allow the tail of the firing pin by until the bolt is closing or closed.

Garand Slamfires with issue ball and NM ammunition

http://forum.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=251078

11-23-2009, 12:23 PM
lowflash
Member Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 233

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRPfan
I've only read about first-hand slam fires (not hearsay) on the Internet a couple of times. There are two problems with this. First, we believe what we read on the Internet, and while a lot of good info is out there, so is a lot of misinformation. Also, we cannot get any kind of statistical information for how often slamfires happen.
Three slam fires with M1 rifles:
1964 ITR Camp Geiger NC International Harvester Mfgr M1 with issue ball ammunition, 1968 Gitmo Marine Marksmanship Instructor for Sailors using M1 rifles converted 7.62 Nato with issued 7.62mm Match XM118 Lot LC 12010, and a M1 Springfield match conditioned by Clint Fowler in 7.62 Nato ammunition .308 Federal Match. All three rifles were examined and found to be with in specification.

11-25-2009, 06:56 PM
charliex
Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ohio
Posts: 5

slam fires
________________________________________
I have witnessed 2 of them,probable cause, insufficiently resized cases. Ammo worked fine in old barrel, would barely close in new one. Two slam fire on single load slow fire stage,dnf for match.
__________________
If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.
Slamfire is offline  
Old January 25, 2013, 09:18 AM   #25
Slamfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2007
Posts: 4,070
There is a word limit per post so it takes several posts to just post all the Garand slamfire posts I have collected:

Quote:
Garand Slamfire with insufficiently sized case

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451214
How is your trigger? Sounds like your rifle may have just doubled, rather than a slam-fire. If trigger has been lightened, the disconnect may not have sufficient engagement to prevent rifle doubling. If your trigger breaks below 4.5# I would have it checked out.

As for slamfires, soft primers can be responsible, as you suggest. The CCI #34 & #41 military primers have a hard cup to duplicate GI ammo, most of which is loaded with a hard primer. Handloaders must be aware of other factors that can result in slam fires, as well.

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/produc...ers.aspx?id=30

A slamfire in either the M1 or M14 can have disastrous results if it occurs before the bolt is in battery. Lack of care in following careful reloading practices or a bit of debris on bolt face, or perhaps a broken firing pin, combined with a soft primer can all contribute to a slamfire.

While the following concerns an M1, hopefully it will illustrate what can happen should a rifle slamfire while not in battery. I have personal knowledge of several other such events that I did not actually witness. One was an M14 using military issue ammo in which the shooter received some serious injuries, so the hard primer is not absolute insurance against a slamfire.

A friend who is a very experienced highpower competitor and reloader wrecked his match grade M1 Garand using the same handloads he had used for years when the rifle slam fired out of battery. Bent his op-rod, blew extractor/ejector out of bolt and rounded the receiver locking lug recess about 1/8" showing the bolt lug (thankfully) had barely entered the recess but was not fully in battery at the time the slamfire occurred. He received a cut on the forehead and had somewhat of a problem with his trigger control for a while thereafter. Fortunately, the rifle, and his shooting ability have since been restored.

Upon examination of the remaining lot of ammo, we found that the rounds did not have sufficient headspace (clearance) in his snug, match chamber. He had loaded this batch of ammo using the same (full length) die setting as always. Remember, all previous lots had measured OK. The problem stemmed from the fact that this particular lot of brass had been fired at least 8 times and had work hardened. His dies had been set to give proper headspace with once fired brass and he failed to check headspace on this lot after loading. The harder brass springs back more than softer brass after sizing which resulted in oversized (for his chamber)rounds.

Other than a dirty chamber, a broken firing pin or a pin that is no longer free floating for whatever reason, IMHO, ammo is probably the number one cause of slam fires in the Garand & M14. Anything that can cause the round to "stop short" of full chambering can result in the firing pin hitting the primer with sufficient force to set it off. If this occurs before the bolt is in battery, it can be disastrous!

First, make it a practice to run your thumb over the primer as each round is removed from the press to be sure that the primer is fully seated.

Secondly, each cartridge must be sized sufficiently to fit your rifle's chamber giving proper headspace clearance. I would not load for any "gas gun" without using a cartridge case headspace gauge. Best practice is to run each case through the case gauge at the time the loaded round comes off the press after determining the actual headspace required for your rifle; remember, all rifle chambers are not created equally. At the very least, spot check every few rounds in a given lot of reloads (for this to be acceptable, one must keep all brass in lots that have been fired the same number of times).

Hopefully, this information may help someone else avoid this pitfall.

Regards,
hps

If the recovered brass looked normal, it probably wasnt a slam fire. If the gun was going off before lock up, even if real close, the case necks would most likely show it.

I had a DCM M1 slam fire on me during a match. Luckily, it was during the slow fire string and the rifle wasnt in my shoulder. When it cut loose, it blew the bolt rearward hard enough to blow the back of the receiver off at the serial number. The stock was cracked, and had a big chunk missing. The op rod handle tore my palm open requiring stitches. Even with ear plugs in, it was LOUD.

The gun had doubled a couple of times during the rapid fire strings, and I was thinking it must have been me until I saw the recovered brass later. A couple of pieces did have the case necks blown out somewhat, which led me to believe the gun was firing out of battery before it cut loose. If I had been able to recover my brass after each string, on seeing that, I probably wouldnt have shot the gun anymore that day.

These days, I no longer single load a Garand unless I use a SLED. Im also very careful with my reloading for these type guns, and check both the cases closely and the primer depths.
__________________
"be very careful about assuming whatever gear you pick will work out perfectly
for the gunfight script you've written in your head" ...... smince

Garand Slamfire
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=43143
12-05-2006, 8:22 PM
Gunsrruss
Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Yuma, Arizona ( Unoccupied
Posts: 1,085
iTrader: 13 / 100%


Slam Fires.....
________________________________________
I had a slam fire with my M1 Grand. Took me a few minutes to realize what happened. The guy next to me spoted it scared him so bad. It trashed my stock and the bolt. It took me about twenty minutes to pull the stock pieces out of my hand. Other than that I remained calm ( nervous wreck ) while I removed the pieces of stock and controled the bleeding. Why did this happen???? I was loading one round at a time by pushing it into the chamber. This is not good. Get yourself a one round loading block. Make sure your primers are not raised on the round. A primer should be flush or resessed into the round. You keep releasing that bolt on a single cartridge and eventually you get a slam fire. Always check the primers when you load them to make sure they are not raised.
__________________

Garand Slamfire with CCI #34 primer
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=35116
08-25-2008, 06:46 AM #17

B747
Boolit Man



Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
Posts: 125 Also, keep in mind that the Garand has a floating firing pin that will at the very least make an indent mark on the primer if you release the bolt from all the way back.

I've had a slam-fire on mine even with a CCI #34 military style primer with the hard shell is supposed to help prevent that. When single round loading I now drop the bolt from about half way closed to keep bolt closing speed down.

A slam fire is always a bad deal --- if it occurs out of breach lock, really bad things will happen.

Wally



Slamfire In Garand with tight round
5 June 2012
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/...671#8321025671

slamfire in either the M1 or M14 can have disastrous results if it occurs before the bolt is in battery. The bolt design of the AR would seem to make firing out of battery nearly impossible since the firing pin is not long enough to reach the primer until bolt locks.

Lack of care in following careful reloading practices or a bit of debris on bolt face, or perhaps a broken firing pin, combined with a soft primer could cause a slamfire, even in an AR.

The following occurred with an M1, and illustrates what can happen should a rifle slamfire while not in battery. I have personal knowledge of several other such events that I did not actually witness. One was an M14 using military issue ammo in which the shooter received some serious injuries, so the hard primer is not absolute insurance against a slamfire.

A friend who is a very experienced highpower competitor and reloader wrecked his match grade M1 Garand using the same handloads he had used for years when the rifle slam fired out of battery. Bent his op-rod, blew extractor/ejector out of bolt and rounded the receiver locking lug recess about 1/8" showing the bolt lug (thankfully) had barely entered the recess but was not fully in battery at the time the slamfire occurred. He received a cut on the forehead and had somewhat of a problem with his trigger control for a while thereafter. Fortunately, the rifle, and his shooting ability have since been restored.

Upon examination of the remaining lot of ammo, we found that the rounds did not have sufficient headspace (clearance) in his snug, match chamber. He had loaded this batch of ammo using the same (full length) die setting as always. Remember, all previous lots had measured and functioned just fine. The problem stemmed from the fact that this particular lot of brass had been fired at least 8 times and had work hardened. His dies had been set to give proper headspace with once fired brass and he failed to check headspace on this lot after loading. The harder brass springs back more than softer brass after sizing which resulted in oversized (for his chamber)rounds.

Ammo is probably the number one cause of slam fires in the Garand & M14. Anything that can cause the round to "stop short" of full chambering can result in the firing pin hitting the primer with sufficient force to set it off. If this occurs before the bolt is in battery, it can be disastrous!

Soft primers can contribute to a slam fire. The CCI #34 & #41 military primers have a hard cup to duplicate GI ammo, most of which is loaded with a hard primer. Handloaders must be aware of two other factors that can result in slam fires.

First, make it a practice to run your thumb over the primer as each round is removed from the press to be sure that the primer is fully seated.

Secondly, each cartridge must be sized sufficiently to fit your rifle's chamber giving proper headspace clearance. I would not load for any "gas gun" without using a cartridge case headspace gauge as pictured in Slamfire's post above. Best practice is to run each case through the case gauge at the time the loaded round comes off the press after determining the actual headspace required for your rifle; remember, all rifle chambers are not created equally. At the very least, spot check every few rounds in a given lot of reloads (for this to be acceptable, one must keep all brass in lots that have been fired the same number of times).

Hopefully, this information may help someone else avoid this pitfall.

Regards,
hm

M1 Garand out of battery slamfire that cracked receiver

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...50#post5102250


so about.. 2 and a half months ago a buddy and i were shooting the garand at the range. we were shooting reloads that my grampa and i made, he is an experienced reloader and has been doing this since the 60s. i have a 1942 manufacture spiringfield garand. anyway, about 5 rounds in, i pulled the trigger and heard 2 rounds go off. there was only 7 cases on the ground, for a short time we couldnt even find the missing case or any evidence of it. when we did find it, the neck was all ballooned out, and the case looked like a giant .45. so we are assuming what had happened was the round went off as it was being chambered, and we have no idea why. luckily the bullet left the barrel and i only got minor powder burns on my neck..
as a result of the incident, the rear of the receiver cracked on both sides, and the op rod was bent slighty and will not close the bolt all the way unless i give it a good whack. the stock was also cracked, and a nice chunk came out of the back of it.
i have had some bad luck with the rifles, having just repaired the mauser stock for the 5th time a few weeks ago..

needless to say we were pretty ticked off about the whole thing, and now i am looking into either buying a new one or getting it repaired.

so, based on my friend's research, a receiver is about 250-300$, an op rod is 100-160$ a stock is about 70$ (mine is still usable so i may skip this one) along with my barrel looking pretty nasty inside with quite a bit of wear, so i think i need a new barrel as well- another 100 some dollars.

i could spend nearly 500$ to get the parts, then probably some more to get a gunsmith to do the work. or, i could put this one on the wall and try to find another rifle for about the same price or less.

any ideas? opinions? good places to check for parts or a new rifle? Id like to find one with a lower number like mine (which is in the 400k range), if that is possible for that low of a price. condition is not a major issue, as long as it works and isnt rusted away and obvioulsy very rough. my dad and i can clean up the metal and get it re-blued/parkerized at the shop.
I will add some pictures of the damage later today if anyone is interested in seeing.
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