Question on 49 pocket revolver ballistics

brazosdave · January 20, 2013, 07:30 PM

Does anyone know offhand how a 49 pocket revolver performs at 25 yds? I was thinking they might not shoot as high as a 51 Navy or a 1860 at the range, with the smaller charge and caliber. Anyone have any practical experience with this?

deerslayer303 · January 20, 2013, 07:47 PM

NOPE, but as soon as you go to the range with it and report back, I will!

Erich · January 22, 2013, 06:14 PM

Google "Cumpston percussion revolver" and you'll come upon a partial Google books printing of Cumpston & Bates' Percussion Pistols and Revolvers (one that's worth buying through Amazon). On page 98, the authors discuss how at 50 feet they found it necessary to aim about one foot low with an 1849 Wells Fargo Model to get decent hits. They have a nice amount of load info and other data - again, it's worth buying this book.

brazosdave · January 22, 2013, 06:48 PM

Thanks, that kind of goes with what another feller told me about sometimes the smaller calibers have a higher rate of climb. So according to this, you would have to actually aim lower than you would a 1860. I will still test out the theory on Friday

deerslayer303 · January 22, 2013, 08:52 PM

Dave,
that lil '49 is on my list, so please don't forget to report back with your findings, charge, P.O.A, etc, and as always a pics is GRRRRRREAT

Erich · January 22, 2013, 10:16 PM

Dave, you know what's funny is that Cumpston and Bates don't live an hour from you.

Hawg Haggen · January 23, 2013, 06:38 AM

Don't expect minute of paper plate accuracy at 25 yards.

10851Man · January 23, 2013, 12:14 PM

10 feet would be a more appropriate range with speed of presentation and economy of movement the goal...

brazosdave · January 23, 2013, 12:51 PM

it's for a target match not shootout at the Walmart corral, lol!

10851Man · January 23, 2013, 01:17 PM

That's quite a distance for target shooting with a .31!!!!

I practice gunfighting techniques with all my firearms, including C&B's...

brazosdave · January 23, 2013, 01:19 PM

last gunfight I got in was in a place called Iraq, and I had a rifle, lol!

10851Man · January 23, 2013, 01:38 PM

My hat's off to you on that one.

My last gunfight was an abandoned apartment building in pitch darkness....

unknwn · January 23, 2013, 08:41 PM

Received a "Pocket" today from BerettaUSA and sent it back for exchange in the same hour.
Short arbor by .023" (go figure), timing problems, the wedge would bottom out with finger pressure and then I could wiggle the barrel.
Oh, and the wood fit about as well as a Pietta (proud at the palm heel area).
It sure was pretty, but so disappointing. I am right glad that I have been made aware of what to look out for because Uberti quality control certainly doesn't seem able to inspect them adequately.
MAYBE? it's replacement will be a better example (I pleaded that someone look it over before packaging!).

brazosdave · January 23, 2013, 09:39 PM

dang, not good. So far, the only problem gun I've had was a uberti, with the exception being my uberti Hombre SAA clone, which is as fine of a pistol as I could ever want.

Hawg Haggen · January 24, 2013, 07:13 PM

Quote:

it's for a target match not shootout at the Walmart corral, lol!

I think you need to find something better for a target match at 25 yards. Just sayin.

brazosdave · January 24, 2013, 07:25 PM

I was gonna default to my 1860, but was shootin the .36 Navy style ones the other day. Took a look at the pocket, and said "hmmm? I wonder...." End of the day, more than likely the 1860 will be the gun of choice. Then again, I did spend a long time in the Army so doing things that make sense probably aren't my strong suit, lol!

mec · February 9, 2013, 05:11 PM

This is my Pocket Model For some reason these with no loading lever are called "Wells Fargo."

It seems that the Colt type revolvers-both original and replica, that have the low, bead type front sight shot well above point of aim while the ones that have blade front sights-like the walkers, dragoons, 60 armys and 61 navies hit closer to point of aim.

deerslayer303 · February 9, 2013, 10:35 PM

^^ Very nice Piece Mec! Now fella's I need some range reports with pics

And other than the Wells Fargo, the only other pocket WITH a loading lever is the baby dragoon, right?

robhof · February 10, 2013, 12:00 AM

Right about the Baby Dragoon and the center post on the Wells
Fargo can be used as a ram for loading, there were some reprinted instructions with my ASM WF that I have since lost, but got a cylinder loader anyway as the balls cast with the brass mold were awfully hard to ram, and they were soft lead, just too big, got a .318 ball mold and they load easier now.

mec · February 10, 2013, 12:24 AM

A 31 pocket model from the Robert E. Lee Family

[IMG]http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86948&stc=1&d=1360469719[/IMG
This is an original Pocket Police in 36 caliber.It handles and shoots just like a Uberti Replica.]

this pocket navy has a dovetailed high sight to make it hit point of aim:

.31 Pocket Model
Load Velocity Spread (5)
50 Grain Ball 12.5 Goex FFFg 720 5
50 Grain Ball 12.5 Pyrodex P 682 47
50 Grain Ball 10 H777 650 53
50 Grain Ball 13.5 Swiss 814 73
60 Grain Bullet 12.5 Pyrodex P 668 79

brazosdave · February 10, 2013, 11:07 AM

well, the pocket at 25 yds was not even worthy of pics, let alone a serious choice for match gun, lol! If the loads too light, you're lucky to even bust the target material. BUT, the performance at more reasonable ranges led me to choose this as my backup carry gun. So, if we have learned nothing else, even experiments bordering on the absurd may sometimes yield results.

January 20, 2013, 07:30 PM	#1
brazosdave Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2012 Location: Copperas Cove, TX Posts: 251	Question on 49 pocket revolver ballistics Does anyone know offhand how a 49 pocket revolver performs at 25 yds? I was thinking they might not shoot as high as a 51 Navy or a 1860 at the range, with the smaller charge and caliber. Anyone have any practical experience with this? __________________ "I'm your huckleberry, it's just my game"

January 20, 2013, 07:47 PM	#2
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: McMinnville TN Posts: 1,116	NOPE, but as soon as you go to the range with it and report back, I will! __________________ "You're so drunk you cant hit nothin, In fact you're probably seeing double"...."I have TWO GUNS one for each of ya"

January 22, 2013, 06:48 PM	#4
brazosdave Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2012 Location: Copperas Cove, TX Posts: 251	Thanks, that kind of goes with what another feller told me about sometimes the smaller calibers have a higher rate of climb. So according to this, you would have to actually aim lower than you would a 1860. I will still test out the theory on Friday __________________ "I'm your huckleberry, it's just my game"

January 22, 2013, 08:52 PM	#5
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: McMinnville TN Posts: 1,116	Dave, that lil '49 is on my list, so please don't forget to report back with your findings, charge, P.O.A, etc, and as always a pics is GRRRRRREAT __________________ "You're so drunk you cant hit nothin, In fact you're probably seeing double"...."I have TWO GUNS one for each of ya"

January 23, 2013, 06:38 AM	#7
Hawg Haggen Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 10,243	Don't expect minute of paper plate accuracy at 25 yards. __________________ http://blackpowdertimes.com/index.php

January 22, 2013, 06:14 PM	#3
Erich Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA Posts: 2,502	Google "Cumpston percussion revolver" and you'll come upon a partial Google books printing of Cumpston & Bates' Percussion Pistols and Revolvers (one that's worth buying through Amazon). On page 98, the authors discuss how at 50 feet they found it necessary to aim about one foot low with an 1849 Wells Fargo Model to get decent hits. They have a nice amount of load info and other data - again, it's worth buying this book.

January 22, 2013, 10:16 PM	#6
Erich Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA Posts: 2,502	Dave, you know what's funny is that Cumpston and Bates don't live an hour from you.

January 23, 2013, 12:14 PM	#8
10851Man Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: High Desert Mountains CA. Posts: 410	10 feet would be a more appropriate range with speed of presentation and economy of movement the goal...

January 23, 2013, 12:51 PM	#9
brazosdave Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2012 Location: Copperas Cove, TX Posts: 251	it's for a target match not shootout at the Walmart corral, lol! __________________ "I'm your huckleberry, it's just my game"

January 23, 2013, 01:17 PM	#10
10851Man Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: High Desert Mountains CA. Posts: 410	That's quite a distance for target shooting with a .31!!!! I practice gunfighting techniques with all my firearms, including C&B's...

January 23, 2013, 01:19 PM	#11
brazosdave Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2012 Location: Copperas Cove, TX Posts: 251	last gunfight I got in was in a place called Iraq, and I had a rifle, lol! __________________ "I'm your huckleberry, it's just my game"

January 23, 2013, 01:38 PM	#12
10851Man Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: High Desert Mountains CA. Posts: 410	My hat's off to you on that one. My last gunfight was an abandoned apartment building in pitch darkness....

January 23, 2013, 08:41 PM	#13
unknwn Member Join Date: January 20, 2011 Posts: 22	Received a "Pocket" today from BerettaUSA and sent it back for exchange in the same hour. Short arbor by .023" (go figure), timing problems, the wedge would bottom out with finger pressure and then I could wiggle the barrel. Oh, and the wood fit about as well as a Pietta (proud at the palm heel area). It sure was pretty, but so disappointing. I am right glad that I have been made aware of what to look out for because Uberti quality control certainly doesn't seem able to inspect them adequately. MAYBE? it's replacement will be a better example (I pleaded that someone look it over before packaging!).

January 23, 2013, 09:39 PM	#14
brazosdave Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2012 Location: Copperas Cove, TX Posts: 251	dang, not good. So far, the only problem gun I've had was a uberti, with the exception being my uberti Hombre SAA clone, which is as fine of a pistol as I could ever want. __________________ "I'm your huckleberry, it's just my game"

January 24, 2013, 07:25 PM	#16
brazosdave Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2012 Location: Copperas Cove, TX Posts: 251	I was gonna default to my 1860, but was shootin the .36 Navy style ones the other day. Took a look at the pocket, and said "hmmm? I wonder...." End of the day, more than likely the 1860 will be the gun of choice. Then again, I did spend a long time in the Army so doing things that make sense probably aren't my strong suit, lol! __________________ "I'm your huckleberry, it's just my game"

February 9, 2013, 10:35 PM	#18
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: McMinnville TN Posts: 1,116	^^ Very nice Piece Mec! Now fella's I need some range reports with pics And other than the Wells Fargo, the only other pocket WITH a loading lever is the baby dragoon, right? __________________ "You're so drunk you cant hit nothin, In fact you're probably seeing double"...."I have TWO GUNS one for each of ya"

February 10, 2013, 12:00 AM	#19
robhof Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2007 Posts: 637	robhof Right about the Baby Dragoon and the center post on the Wells Fargo can be used as a ram for loading, there were some reprinted instructions with my ASM WF that I have since lost, but got a cylinder loader anyway as the balls cast with the brass mold were awfully hard to ram, and they were soft lead, just too big, got a .318 ball mold and they load easier now.

February 10, 2013, 11:07 AM	#21
brazosdave Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2012 Location: Copperas Cove, TX Posts: 251	well, the pocket at 25 yds was not even worthy of pics, let alone a serious choice for match gun, lol! If the loads too light, you're lucky to even bust the target material. BUT, the performance at more reasonable ranges led me to choose this as my backup carry gun. So, if we have learned nothing else, even experiments bordering on the absurd may sometimes yield results. __________________ "I'm your huckleberry, it's just my game"