The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 15, 2013, 12:58 PM   #1
rajbcpa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2012
Posts: 306
Can NY residents still buy powder and primers without a background check?

OK - so the new law says New Yorkers cannot buy ammo unless you pass a background check that must be performed in-person by an FFL.

Apparently, the law is silent on ammo components such as smokeless gun powder, primers, brass, bullets, etc.

I suppose this means as a NY resident, I can still buy reloading ammo components on the Internet and have the seller mail them to my NY house.
rajbcpa is offline  
Old January 15, 2013, 01:04 PM   #2
bird_dog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 26, 2004
Posts: 204
I'm wondering the same thing.

At this point, it's wait-and-see to see what the legislation actually says. Being a NY'er with a varied collection of firearms, and a re-loader, I have a million questions. I'm not even sure I want to know the answers.
bird_dog is offline  
Old January 15, 2013, 01:48 PM   #3
rajbcpa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2012
Posts: 306
I read the new NY law - HORRIBLE. Amung other things, new pistols sales with capacity of >7 rounds are completely banned. Old big mags currently in circuation have to be turned in within one year making your gun in-operable. This is a de-facto seizure without compensation. Assulat rifles must be registered - presummably for confiscation at some later date.

A few years ago, I traveled to Mass on business for several weeks. I tried to buy some powder, brass, bullets, primers at a local Gander Mountain. ...NO DEAL - NOT LEGAL IN MASS. Apparently, you need to be a resident and have a special ammo license.

I asked the clerk why Mass residents don't just cross over into NY, CT, NH, VT etc to buy ammo with no hastle. No answer was given.
rajbcpa is offline  
Old January 15, 2013, 02:03 PM   #4
bird_dog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 26, 2004
Posts: 204
Where did you find the details? I've still only seen the 'talking point' type listings of some of the details.

If you're unable to buy a gun in NY that has 8+ capacity, that will certainly be a game changer.

Also interested to know if you saw anything regarding revolvers, or rimfire handguns.
bird_dog is offline  
Old January 15, 2013, 02:50 PM   #5
rajbcpa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2012
Posts: 306
The only exception on rimfire guns is that tubular magazines for rifles only are OK.

Obama will copy this whole law and issue it by executive order - you can bet on that.
rajbcpa is offline  
Old January 15, 2013, 02:56 PM   #6
Musketeer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 12, 2005
Posts: 3,731
I live in this disaster of a state. How this raced through the state senate I have no idea. Talk about passed in the dead of night. Suddenly thousands of NY resident become felons or have inoperable firearms. I am surprised Coumo would be so moronic as his goal is to be president. I'm physically ill over this. We were given no notice or chance to argue...
__________________
"Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." Thomas Jefferson

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Benjamin Franklin
Musketeer is offline  
Old January 15, 2013, 02:58 PM   #7
Technosavant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO area
Posts: 3,847
Quote:
Obama will copy this whole law and issue it by executive order - you can bet on that.
No, he won't.

You may wish to educate yourself on what can and cannot be done by EO. Presidents cannot invent new laws and put them into force via Executive Order.
Technosavant is offline  
Old January 15, 2013, 03:10 PM   #8
shuler13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2011
Location: Austin
Posts: 156
Don't speak loudly about this "hole" or they might amend it before it becomes law
shuler13 is offline  
Old January 15, 2013, 04:22 PM   #9
Webleymkv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9,841
The President cannot ban anything via EO unless the power to do so has already been delegated to him via a law passed by Congress. An example of such would be the 1989 ban on importation of so-called "assault weapons" as that was a regulatory power delegated to the administration via the Gun Control Act of 1968. There has been no law passed by Congress which delegates enough discretionary power to the President to enact sweeping gun control measures like we're seeing in New York.
__________________
Smith, and Wesson, and Me. -H. Callahan
Well waddaya know, one buwwet weft! -E. Fudd
All bad precedents begin as justifiable measures. -J. Caesar

Last edited by Tom Servo; January 17, 2013 at 10:12 AM. Reason: Response to deleted post
Webleymkv is offline  
Old January 15, 2013, 05:15 PM   #10
Dr Big Bird PhD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 778
Quote:
I live in this disaster of a state. How this raced through the state senate I have no idea. Talk about passed in the dead of night. Suddenly thousands of NY resident become felons or have inoperable firearms. I am surprised Coumo would be so moronic as his goal is to be president. I'm physically ill over this. We were given no notice or chance to argue...
So it passed and is not about to be taken into effect?
__________________
I told the new me,
"Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'"
But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back."
Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor
Dr Big Bird PhD is offline  
Old January 15, 2013, 05:30 PM   #11
JimDandy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,346
Raj, take a deep breath and relax before that vein throbbing in your forehead ruptures.


He took and oath to defend the Constitution of the US, not US Code.

Further, law enforcement officers are not required to enforce ANY law. They can ignore someone else breaking any law they want. It's not always wise, but they can...
JimDandy is offline  
Old January 15, 2013, 05:48 PM   #12
Webleymkv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9,841
Quote:
No, [Obama] he did not create a new law, he simply directed federal law enforcement not to enforce existing ones.

***
This is a perfect example of my point that Obama lives by his own laws. Obama took an oath of office to uphold all the federal laws of the land. Now you are saying its OK for him to order federal officials to ignor existing law?

Where in the Constitution does it permit the president to selectively inforce existing law?
No, I'm not saying that choosing not to enforce the existing laws is OK, all I'm saying is that there is a difference between enforcing laws selectively and creating new ones through non-existant executive power. If the President could "EO away" anything he liked, he'd not have had so much trouble with Congressional Republicans throughout his first term as such power would make Congress nearly irrelevant. The whole fight over the Affordable Care Act? Unnecessary because he could've just EO'd it. Fiscal Cliff you say? No problem an EO resolves that too. Why fight over the debt ceiling when raising it is but an EO away? You see, if Obama had the kind of power you suggest, I have a hard time believing that he'd have not already used it.
__________________
Smith, and Wesson, and Me. -H. Callahan
Well waddaya know, one buwwet weft! -E. Fudd
All bad precedents begin as justifiable measures. -J. Caesar
Webleymkv is offline  
Old January 15, 2013, 06:04 PM   #13
cryogenic419
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2009
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 388
I truly feel for the residents of NY...that legislation was rammed through faster than I can order a pizza.


Hopefully they somehow forgot about the people who reload and you guys can still get components.
cryogenic419 is offline  
Old January 15, 2013, 08:29 PM   #14
musher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 23, 2005
Posts: 423
Quote:
He took and oath to defend the Constitution of the US, not US Code.

Further, law enforcement officers are not required to enforce ANY law. They can ignore someone else breaking any law they want. It's not always wise, but they can...
JimDandy, read Article II, section 3 of the US constitution
musher is offline  
Old January 15, 2013, 09:54 PM   #15
DMMikey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 11, 2008
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 291
Does everything have to be about Obama? Let's get back on topic. My reading of the law does not require that existing 10 round magazines be sold. Those over 10 rounds, yes.
I found it incredible that the legislation was declared an "emergency" and rammed through without public hearing or even the normally required 3 day aging period.
There is already legislation being written to repair all the errors made in the bill.
Much of the bill I can live with. The assault weapon definition is ridiculous, and shows the fallacy of defining what an assault weapon is. A .22 with a thumbhole stock is now an assault weapon. What a joke.
The biggest problem is the 7 round magazine rule. I doubt most manufacturers will produce NY only weapons, so I guess the vast majority of handguns will no longer be available.
The background check each time ammunition is purchased is silly. Permits will be "reverified" every five years. Why, if background check every time ammo is purchased? Or, why not just show a valid permit to buy? Most retailers already required this to buy handgun ammo in an erroneous interpretation of present law.
Oh, and I saw nothing in the bill about reloading supplies, period.
__________________
"We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem." Douglas Adams
DMMikey is offline  
Old January 16, 2013, 12:34 AM   #16
M1ke10191
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2012
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 111
Apparently reloading supplies are illegal to buy online. Someone on NY firearms had his components' order denied on midwayusa, citing state/local law conflicts.

Haven't seen any actual legislation, however.
M1ke10191 is offline  
Old January 16, 2013, 11:33 PM   #17
EastSideRich
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 19, 2007
Location: St Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 369
to illustrate the absurdity of the the bill:

These guys are carrying "assault weapons".


In all seriousness, though - this whole thing has to be overturned, right?
Can they really do this? (states can't override the constitution)
__________________
Give your opponents one hundred dollars worth of steak, and you shall receive one trillion dollars worth of pork.
-Proverb of The US Congress
EastSideRich is offline  
Old January 17, 2013, 02:22 AM   #18
Dr Big Bird PhD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 778
There's going to be a huge legal battle soon over it. I'm sure people are just gonna way to divest resources if a federal one is passed rather than go state by state.
__________________
I told the new me,
"Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'"
But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back."
Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor
Dr Big Bird PhD is offline  
Old January 17, 2013, 11:55 AM   #19
JimDandy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,346
Just read it Musher. End result I get is that POTUS can choose when and how to enforce laws. He can tell the FBI devote all resources to bank robbery, and back burner civil rights. He can tell the ATF to send all their agents to Virginia to deal with moonshiners, which would devastate explosives and firearm enforcement... Additionally there's a no-mans-land wiggle room in inferior officers approved by congress, and "heads of department" that if both sides are willing to wink-wink-nudge-nudge on would be the same thing.
JimDandy is offline  
Old January 18, 2013, 05:51 AM   #20
Musketeer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 12, 2005
Posts: 3,731
I see many group road trips to Cabella's and the like in NY shooters future.
__________________
"Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." Thomas Jefferson

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Benjamin Franklin
Musketeer is offline  
Old January 18, 2013, 08:43 AM   #21
CowTowner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 17, 2007
Location: Cowtown of course!
Posts: 1,117
I'm thinking group road trips to save gas and tolls.
__________________
NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, Home Firearm Safety and Pistol Instructor
"There are three classes of people: those who see, those who see when they are shown, those who do not see."
Leonardo da Vinci
CowTowner is offline  
Old January 18, 2013, 11:02 AM   #22
Musketeer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 12, 2005
Posts: 3,731
Hamburg PA from Long Island and back is entirely doable. Then there is my family trip to Hershey in the summer which could serve as a large annual buy for trap rounds and other assorted stuff.

How many rampage shooters have been reloaders? Oops, I accidentally began applying logic!
__________________
"Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." Thomas Jefferson

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Benjamin Franklin
Musketeer is offline  
Old January 18, 2013, 08:21 PM   #23
Cascade1911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2011
Location: Dutchess County, NY
Posts: 450
Quote:
Someone on NY firearms had his components' order denied on midwayusa, citing state/local law conflicts.
Has anyone on this forum tried ordering and been approved or denied the purchase of components? I'd place an order myself just to test the waters but I can't find anyone that has primers or powder I want.
Cascade1911 is offline  
Old January 19, 2013, 12:24 PM   #24
rts99
Member
 
Join Date: April 20, 2012
Posts: 40
The law will go into effect at a particular time. I'm not sure when NY state applies the new laws signed into law in the current legislative session but it won't be immediately. You'll need to find out when the laws from this session take effect. It may be Oct 1 of this year, maybe January 1st of next year, etc. It depends on how this is performed in NY state.

And those of you who indicated that out of state sales of ammo will increase dramatically are correct. Unless the legislature passes a "non-importation" of ammo statute. Only FFEs will be legally permitted to import ammo into the state under such a statute. Not sure how they would enforce this, but watch out for it. Black market for ammo anyone?
rts99 is offline  
Old January 20, 2013, 07:42 PM   #25
kgs113
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 31, 2007
Posts: 4
I tried to order a box of Hornady .308/150gr SST's(Savage) on Midway last night. Denied because my mailing address is in New York State. Grr...
kgs113 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13810 seconds with 9 queries