The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 20, 2013, 03:45 PM   #1
BoogieMan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2012
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,274
A few newb questions

First off I havent received my press yet, shipping delayed. I opted for the cheaper Lee load-master as I will load primarely pistol.
I plan on putting all my used intact brass in a tumbler with walnut shells.
Then I put them in the press and crank through the stations until cartridge comes out. 5 station.
What I am having the problem with is primer pocket cleaning. Does it have to be done, recomended, or not needed?
Same question for case sizing, chamfering?
It would be easy enough to cycle brass through to remove primer first then vibrate, trim and chamfer. But I am not getting the full use of the press.
What say you guys?
I will eventually use the same press for 44mag, 460mag, and probably some rifle like 303, 30-06.
Also, are gas checked lead bullets available pre-assembled?
__________________
Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it.
Milton Freidman

Last edited by BoogieMan; January 20, 2013 at 04:30 PM.
BoogieMan is offline  
Old January 20, 2013, 04:46 PM   #2
dmazur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2007
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 1,310
With carbide dies for pistol, no lube is required. Also, straight-walled pistol cases don't need to be trimmed. Progressive press operation can be "straight thru".

Bottleneck rifle cases require lube. Also, they need to be checked for trim length after resizing. One way of dealing with this is to do the following -
  • lube
  • resize/reprime
  • remove lube
  • check for trim length, trim as necessary
  • remove resizing die from press
  • use progressive operation to charge, seat bullet

Some use a dry lube (to minimize powder bridging) and reload in batches, trimming the entire batch to minimum before starting and thereafter every x reloads, rather than worry about trim length after resizing. This permits uninterrupted progressive reloading.

I believe most prefer to "resize/reprime separately", as there is more control of the process and fewer assumptions about uniformity.
__________________
.30-06 Springfield: 100 yrs + and still going strong
dmazur is offline  
Old January 20, 2013, 05:00 PM   #3
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,256
You'll probably want to chamfer all your pistol cases once to minimize lead scraping, but it doesn't normally need to be repeated. That's because you don't normally need to trim straight wall handgun cases, which in turn is because pressures are too low to stick the cases to the chamber walls and stretching their heads back. In the .460 that may not be true, so monitor them with a caliper.

Handgun rounds do not normally need decapping and primer pocket cleaning. In high power rifle, however, there is some opinion that the hardened carbon in them helps erode your barrel's throat earlier than would otherwise happen, and also that the cushion effect from seating primers against the carbon and residue bed can make ignition enough more irregular than normal to show up on paper at long range (roughly 500 yards and beyond; though the exact number varies with the chambering).

Also, rifle cases have to be trimmed after resizing to get the trim accurately. Alternately, you could invest in an RCBS X-die for resizing. This die design prevents necks from growing too far, though you still have to perform an initial trimming of them before starting to use that die.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member
Unclenick is offline  
Old January 20, 2013, 05:08 PM   #4
BoogieMan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2012
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,274
Ill check into the rcbs-x die when I get to that point. Thanks for the answers. i bought lyman book localy and just reading up and going through things in my head before the press arrives. I am excited to get going, even if I was only able to lay my hands on 200 primers.

Two other things. I have a large machine shop. Any reason I cant chamfer the brass now? I assume its just a 90deg piloted c'sink

Do I need to worry about a gas check with cast bullets for 9mm? Ordered them from mid-atlantic bullets http://store.midatlanticbullets.com/9MMroundnose.aspx
__________________
Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it.
Milton Freidman
BoogieMan is offline  
Old January 21, 2013, 01:06 PM   #5
dmazur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2007
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 1,310
The typical hand-operated chamfer tool isn't piloted. I have read of folks chucking them up in a drill press and using them powered. One user rigged some sort of PVC pipe guard for the "horns" on the outside chamfer end of the tool, to protect his fingers. But you can just use the hand tool unpowered. You are only removing a trace of brass - just a couple of twists.

I have very little experience with lead bullets, but I understand the following to be true -

1. Used at higher velocities (1200 fps + ?)
2. Can't be added to bullets not designed for a gas check

So, more than likely, your 9mm loads aren't hot enough to neeed them, and I can see from the picture of the bullets you ordered that they have no shoulder to receive a gas check.
__________________
.30-06 Springfield: 100 yrs + and still going strong
dmazur is offline  
Old January 21, 2013, 01:53 PM   #6
oldpapps
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2011
Location: Middle America
Posts: 454
" A few newb questions
First off I havent received my press yet, shipping delayed. I opted for the cheaper Lee load-master as I will load primarely pistol.
I plan on putting all my used intact brass in a tumbler with walnut shells.
Then I put them in the press and crank through the stations until cartridge comes out. 5 station.
What I am having the problem with is primer pocket cleaning. Does it have to be done, recomended, or not needed?
Same question for case sizing, chamfering?
It would be easy enough to cycle brass through to remove primer first then vibrate, trim and chamfer. But I am not getting the full use of the press.
What say you guys?
I will eventually use the same press for 44mag, 460mag, and probably some rifle like 303, 30-06.
Also, are gas checked lead bullets available pre-assembled? "


So many questions... I can help with some.

Lee load-master - Great unit for pistols. Has a case length limit. 303s and 30-06s aren't going to fit. Depending upon what powder system you are going to use, you may want to use LEE's through the die charging set. It make the progressive run much faster. (Get the adjustable disk unit. You can fully adjust what you want to drop. I hate the chain.) SEE CORRECTION IN LATER ENTRIES.

primer pocket cleaning - As stated above, not always needed with pistols. It will depend upon how much crud is left after depriming. The powder used and charge will make the difference. For 9s, 40s, 44s and 45s, I used 231/HP38 and haven't had a need.

case sizing, chamfering - ALL cases will need to be sized. (Bottle necked cases used in the same bolt action can get by with lesser degrees of sizing.) Chamfering is to smooth/ease the seating of the new bullets. Some times the case could get crunched or bullet shaved. Once is usually sufficient for straight walled cases. Bottle necks will lengthen, need to be trimmed and chamfered after being trimmed. (Yes straight walled cases do lengthen, just not enough to count.)

Single processing - I have a progressive press set-up and never deprime/size (or prime) during the progressive loading process. (This is .223/5.56 brass loads. Pistol stuff just goes in empty and comes out loaded.) I clean and trim after depriming and sizing. I clean before also.

gas checked lead bullets available pre-assembled - I would think so, but you will have to check with the vendor. All gas checks that I have used, I set during the sizing/lubing process. Can't say that I have ever bought any gas checked lead bullets, so I don't know for sure.

Hope I helped a little,

Be safe and enjoy,

OSOK

Last edited by oldpapps; January 21, 2013 at 10:53 PM.
oldpapps is offline  
Old January 21, 2013, 02:01 PM   #7
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,256
Most chamferring tools are more like 60° included angle. Some for VLD chamfering tools are 28° to 45° included angle to better match the boattail angles.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member
Unclenick is offline  
Old January 21, 2013, 03:09 PM   #8
BoogieMan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2012
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,274
@oldpapps- If your correct about the loadmaster that is a huge disappointment. The description says "Stroke and clearance sufficient for the largest magnum rifle cases". I may take that up with Lee if its the case.
Thanks for all the info.
Here is my plan (subject to change):
chamfer brass
run through tumbler (walnut shell)
drop in case tube
set all the dies
check against specs
crank out 10 and check all 10
check every 10th round thereafter
__________________
Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it.
Milton Freidman
BoogieMan is offline  
Old January 21, 2013, 06:01 PM   #9
oldpapps
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2011
Location: Middle America
Posts: 454
BoogieMan,

I stand corrected, the online documentation does list rifle calibers as compatible with the LEE Loadmaster.
Something (my daughter would say old age) caused me to stick in my mind that it wouldn't handle longer/taller cases. The photos and documents show other wise..... Darn, maybe I should have gotten one....

Sorry if I cause a stir. Wouldn't do that except because of my stupidity.

Be safe and enjoy.

OSOK
oldpapps is offline  
Old January 21, 2013, 06:20 PM   #10
m&p45acp10+1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,310
I only know one person that uses a Lee progressive press. He has a single stage set up for sizing/depriming, and uses a hand held primer seater. It takes the biggest problem out of the progressive. They seem to jam up at the deprime station, and the priming system can be problematic. He bathces for Size/deprime, and priming. The rest is progressive, and it goes quickly enough to suit him.
__________________
No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.
m&p45acp10+1 is offline  
Old January 21, 2013, 06:21 PM   #11
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,256
I expect you were remembering the 1000.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member
Unclenick is offline  
Old January 21, 2013, 06:26 PM   #12
mikld
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 7, 2009
Location: Southern Oregon!
Posts: 1,086
So, you are starting out trying to learn reloading on a Lee Progressive? Not something I'd recommend, but do get a copy of The ABCs of Reloading and read it. The text will give you some idea of the basics, and what to do in what order, and mebbe you can apply that to your progressive...

Good luck
__________________
My Anchor is holding fast!
mikld is offline  
Old January 21, 2013, 07:10 PM   #13
gun-nut
Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2008
Location: new hampshire
Posts: 31
I learned on a progressive... I went with a dillon 550, & for the first 50 rounds i used it as a single stage, measuring & weighing(2x) at each station. Then i proceeded to run it in the progressive mode albeit pretty slow. Now, i'm much more aware of what's going on. I've never pulled the handle on a lee, but it seems to have a love/ hate relationship. Enjoy reloading and be safe.....READ everything at least 2x, & measure, & if i forgot...read your load manual to a 'T'
gun-nut is offline  
Old January 21, 2013, 08:32 PM   #14
BoogieMan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2012
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,274
Oldpaps@- Thank you very much for all the info you provided. I understand your working from memory. If its like mine then its not infallible.

As for progressive vs single vs turret I weighed the issues and I dont think ill have an issue considering my background. We all learn different. If I know what the finished spec is I can make it happen. The more complicated mechanical things are the better I do. I have a lyman book now, I will also read through the Lee book and any others I can get my hands on. But having the press in front of me will be a big help.
__________________
Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it.
Milton Freidman
BoogieMan is offline  
Old January 21, 2013, 09:00 PM   #15
hhamade
Member
 
Join Date: January 18, 2013
Posts: 15
+1 for The ABC's Of Reloading. I bought the latest edition off Amazon. Its really good and really detailed. It even goes into HUGE DEPTHS on the signs of things going wrong from either the load or the wear of the brass. Shows you in one part how much attention you need to pay to your cases too. I didn't see the hairline crack in the case mouth until it pointed it out in the text. I'm new as well, and haven't even decapped / resized my first piece of brass, but I can tell you, the book has definately made me a little more comfortable and better informed. Also, Unclenick seems to be able to give a good bit of useful information on things to look out for as well. Good Luck, and Be Safe.
hhamade is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10113 seconds with 9 queries