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Old January 21, 2013, 01:09 AM   #1
'88Scrat
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TV Gun Shows. False?

So I was watching an episode of "American Guns" on Youtube and decided to Google the Wyatt's shop Gunsmoke. What came back in the search was kinda surprising.

There were multiple forums, such as Calguns and AR-15.com that just brutally tore into their store and reputation. They were described as thieves, liars, and cheats by several customers. One lady even brought them to court in a civil suit. Long story short there was almost no good comments about them as people or their store.

Interestingly, RedJacket Firearms from the "Sons of Guns" didn't fare much better in reviews. Will Hayden and his daughter Stephanie fared slightly better then Rich Wyatt and his family on "American Guns" but not much better. There was even question as to if RedJacket was operating within the limits of the law, apperantly Will and Stephanie lost their FFL license.

I was wondering if this attack on charecter is deserved or if its just people who are jealous of their fame. I hate to think that liars and cheats are those representing our hobby...
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Old January 21, 2013, 01:17 AM   #2
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Look at the dates of the reviews you are reading. I know that the woman who sued Gunsmoke (American Guns) did so several years before they got their terrible television show.

The two in charge of Red Jacket lost their FFL because they lost guns, according to their log books. The FFL is now held by one of the gunsmiths at the shop.
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Old January 21, 2013, 01:18 AM   #3
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When you have a large customer base most of what you will see posted about your company will be negative. Why you may ask? Because people that don't have a issue with your products or customer service normally don't post about it.

People that had a bad product or service are much more likely to post about it and vent.

I personally don't think a handful of people badmouthing a company is reflective of what is really the case.

You will find 10's of thousands of people badmouthing Wally World but yet millions shop there.
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Old January 21, 2013, 01:33 AM   #4
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Like most such "reality shows" they rush to meet a deadline, and act like putting in an extra hour of labor to correct their own mistakes will bankrupt them.

Personally I would not leave any gun of mine with them.
That said several of the guys working for them are skilled and fairly knowledgeable craftsmen, and should be able to do better if they started up their own shops.
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Old January 21, 2013, 03:49 AM   #5
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I have watched both shows and they do seem to rip people off. I would never buy anything from either one.
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Old January 21, 2013, 04:22 AM   #6
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I don't know, why don't you ever see emotionally balanced people on Jerry Springer?

TV show = drama. A shop willing to provide drama instead of putting that time into pumping out good stuff may be suspect.

I know nothing of the real life shops involved, but just some of the projects they take on are so ridiculous I question their judgement and/or integrity. Did Tom Knapp really have in mind a muzzle-loading blunderbuss as his be all and end all shotgun? Or was he just being gracious to a crew of nincompoops?
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Old January 21, 2013, 07:09 AM   #7
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Everything on TV is for entertainment purposes. And yes, correcting a small mistake is very costly. You would have to fly a field producer from New York or wherever, hire sound guy, rent vehicles, hotels, rent equipment, hire a production assistant, hire camera guys (two or more), feed everyone, water, Gatorade, folding tables, send footage back to NY for approval and pay the characters. Plus numerous other things like waiting for exact weather conditions to match existing footage. A few minutes of reality show can be a week or two of work.
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Old January 21, 2013, 07:25 AM   #8
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It rarely matters what the show, lots of set up to provide phony drama. I was watching a show on recovering cannon from a wreck and the narrator was dramatizing the recovery of a 800lb cannon and how lethal the cable would be if it broke.

Well its absolutely true that if the cable was to break it could be lethal but from the looks of the cable it appeared to be at least one inch diameter, maybe slightly larger... What are the odds of such a thing breaking if used with reasonable care... Not much... Just trying to add drama where there wasn't any... Same with gun shows and almost any other show.
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Old January 21, 2013, 07:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Did Tom Knapp really have in mind a muzzle-loading blunderbuss as his be all and end all shotgun? Or was he just being gracious to a crew of nincompoops?
They sure didnt touch Tom Knapps exhibition shotguns.
Good gunsmiths dont necessarily make good TV. Dramatic events make good TV. Still I will miss seeing Paige and even Stefanie. Those old machine guns were awesome.
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Old January 21, 2013, 07:57 AM   #10
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Gunsmoke is the worst, they really rip people off. Frankly if those are experienced , trained gunsmiths I'd be surprised. They seem to struggle doing some basic work. I watched for the amazement factor, rich almost always has to save the day, they always run into some major issue. I wouldnt let them work on a wrist rocket. Red jacket is marginally better. I have to believe top gunsmiths would be embarrassed on how these guys are portraying their skill.
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Old January 21, 2013, 08:51 AM   #11
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Gunsmoke is the worst, they really rip people off. Frankly if those are experienced , trained gunsmiths I'd be surprised. They seem to struggle doing some basic work. I watched for the amazement factor, rich almost always has to save the day, they always run into some major issue. I wouldnt let them work on a wrist rocket. Red jacket is marginally better. I have to believe top gunsmiths would be embarrassed on how these guys are portraying their skill.
The big guy on American guns sits down to run the lathe. No self repecting machinist would sit down to run a lathe. Thats why it takes him a day to cut a thread and ream a chamber
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Old January 21, 2013, 09:49 AM   #12
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I wouldn't do buisness with either one.
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Old January 21, 2013, 10:41 AM   #13
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American guns pricing is nuts (by pre lunacy standards)
SofG somehow thinks everything they do there "has neva been dun befo"
Family Guns has a man child that will never earn the trust of his dad to run the company (btw most of their guns have been de milled)
Combat Pawn, the jersey shore of the gun shows.
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Old January 21, 2013, 04:04 PM   #14
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American guns pricing is nuts (by pre lunacy standards)
It's nuts for lunacy standards. Still, I liked it better than Sons of Guns, which I quickly grew to hate.
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Old January 21, 2013, 05:01 PM   #15
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Just an FYI, Sons of Guns and American guns are scripted and they use paid actors for a lot of their dealings. The guns they create and sell on the show are not representative of their actual business.

That being said, people tend to hate on whats popular and successful. I'm sure the store is better than the reviews but worse than the show.
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Old January 21, 2013, 05:16 PM   #16
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Just an FYI on reality shows, if you can hear the person speak... It's scripted. To hear a person on camera, it requires that the character to be miked up well in advance of the footage. This means that anyone walking into the store, or any situation has been prepped by a field producer, sound guy, camera guys and signed legal releases before anything happens.

Most likely an acquaintance of someone involved in the show.
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Old January 21, 2013, 05:58 PM   #17
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Just an FYI on reality shows, if you can hear the person speak... It's scripted.
This.
Its not real life, it's drama for TV entertainment. Think about it for a moment. Reality TV is the circus freak show of the 21st century.
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Old January 21, 2013, 06:17 PM   #18
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"Most likely an acquaintance of someone involved in the show."

No, but I work in non-scripted/reality television. I know how it works. I'm pretty sure one of the gun stores was actually propped up for the sake of the show itself.
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Old January 21, 2013, 06:30 PM   #19
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They ask for people to be guests on the show, go to their websites and look. (The shows site not the stores website)

One guy blogged about his experience, they don't actually get to shoot at that target that goes boom, they video him shooting then they video the target blowing up. Fun stuff eh'?
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Old January 21, 2013, 08:16 PM   #20
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I guess what caught my attention was not their actions while the cameras were rolling, I always kinda figured that was staged anyway, but how their reputations suffered when the cameras were turned off.
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Old January 21, 2013, 09:04 PM   #21
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I flew out to Denver this past summer and paid a visit to Gunsmoke. Considered getting Gunsmoke to build me a custom 1911 with some commemorative engraving on it. Totally reconsidered after talking with a gunsmith that works at the bass pro shop in Denver. He use to work for the Wyatts a couple of years back before they went mainstream. He said that pretty much all of their C&C work was done off property and not by them. Will get me an Ed Brown or Les Baer when the time is right.

Here is my experience or the lack there of
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=486898
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Old January 21, 2013, 09:27 PM   #22
'88Scrat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroKing in this thread http://thefiringline.com/forums/show....php?t=486898:
They got the show because he was willing to prance his wife and his daughter around on TV.
Ha!! I actually kinda beleive this. There are some very uh... provocative images of Renee and Paige in the show.
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Old January 22, 2013, 02:08 AM   #23
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Anyone notice how Will always has to get his "projects" done by "next Saturday?"
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Old January 22, 2013, 06:53 AM   #24
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It's a "reality show" only in the fact that the people appearing in the show aren't professional actors. As with any TV show, any resemblance between what you're watching and reality is purely coincidental. That's the way it is with any TV show. Professional wrestling isn't real either...for all of you who didn't know that.

How about if you do a real "cop show"? Okay, the main character is a deputy sheriff. He goes out on his shift and...drives around and drives around...and 20 minutes later stops for lunch...then he directs traffic at an accident for the remainder of the show. There's a forumula for an exciting show - real, real-life. You should see the episode where he spends the last 20 minutes filling out his daily report...talk about excitement and drama!

What you see on TV gun shows is like professional wrestling - it's scripted "drama" for entertainment purposes - or, no one would watch it. Do you really want to see a gunsmith spending 25 minutes putting a 1911 slide into a fixture, indicating it for placement, putting the cutter in the mill, doing a test pass to check for setup problems...etc., etc.? Probably not - that's about as exciting as most of the video blogs on YouTube.

Rich and his family get PAID to do the series. They have script writers, directors, and editors who also get PAID to make it as entertaining as possible. They probably shoot at least 40 or more hours of video for every episode that gets edited down to 1 hour. That's condensing what really happens, with scripted embellishments into a 1 hour entertainment program.

Does it look like Rich and his family are having fun? Yes - good for them.

Do they get to shoot weapons in scripted setups done by a special effects crew so things blow up? Yes - looks like fun to me.

Does Rich, apparently, "over charge" for whatever - sure, it's all part of the drama - will the person make the deal or not for the ridiculous price? And...will the super costly "thingy" be worth the price when it's done? You'll have to watch the rest of the program to find out...we'll be right back to the program after this advertisement....

Do people rag on them, bag on them and bad mouth them on the Internet? Sure, Rich is successful at having a business and TV show - people get jealous and want to tear them down to feed their own ego.

Should you deal with Rich? Wouldn't be my choice for a custom gun - but, for purely personal entertainment purposes, I'd certainly stop by his shop and take a look around.
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Old January 22, 2013, 10:07 AM   #25
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Pure melodrama.
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