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Old January 22, 2013, 03:43 PM   #26
Nasty
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The Buckshot still penetrates more...I've done the testing myself.

Test medium was drywall...
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Old January 24, 2013, 12:01 AM   #27
340 Weatherby
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I have a deep respect for #4 Buck and believe that inside a house that is all you would need. A lot of you know how tough coyotes are. I dropped one years ago with one shot of sixes at thirty yards. I thought it would probably just scare him off, one and done.
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Old January 24, 2013, 01:49 AM   #28
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Good shooting on the coyote. I like #4 buck but regular #4 birdshot is what I'm using for home defense. I figure that at 10ft or so it will get the job done and I don't have to worry too much about overpenetration (I have 4 grandchildren living with me). If need be, I can switch over to the #4 buck easy enough. I just hope the situation never arises, but if it does, I'm prepared. I've tested the #4 birdshot and am confident with it.
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Old January 24, 2013, 05:18 PM   #29
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I can sympathize. I've looked in vain around here for #1 buck, so generally it's 00 buck for my HD shotgun. I also have a supply of #4 buck to fall back on if I ever run out. But if target load was all I could get, I'd certainly use that, rather than leave the gun in the safe.
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Old January 25, 2013, 12:32 AM   #30
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#4 Buckshot in any gauge is better than #4 Birdshot in any gauge.
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Old January 25, 2013, 04:00 PM   #31
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In this day of post Obama gun problems I am stuck with 7 1/2 for my 20Ga Double and a .38 Special for distance with a S/A .357 to back it all up.
I feel that the shotgun would cause a grevious wound and 2 hits from it even more so.
For the time being, untill I can locate more powerfull shells this will have to do...
Darn those gun grabbers anyhow!
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Old January 25, 2013, 04:29 PM   #32
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# 4 buck is very effective

# 4 buck is very effective on a pack of wild dogs that used to frequent our area. They are no longer on this earth.

Lemmon from rural South Carolina
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Old January 25, 2013, 05:02 PM   #33
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"Just purchased a 12 ga and the only ammo I could fine was # 4 shot"


ORDER NOW BEFORE ITS OUT OF STOCK LIKE ALL THE OTHERS:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/629...llets-box-of-5

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/753...llets-box-of-5
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Old January 25, 2013, 08:19 PM   #34
scattergun98908
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Check out youtube under "home defense shotgun ammo" and check out "gunblastdotcom"... he dispells the myth of using birdshot for home defense by shooting into MEAT with birdshot. I sure wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of birdshot at normal home defense ranges.
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Old January 25, 2013, 10:53 PM   #35
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I've seen his video; it's a good 'test' and I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of it either but that doesn't make it an optimal choice for HD.
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Old March 14, 2013, 03:23 PM   #36
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The nay-sayers & pooh-pooher's, about using birdshot FOR SD/HD, should take a good look at the post I linked to, below.

[WARNING - VERY GRAPHIC PICS ! ! ]

This is no video:

http://ogdaa.blogspot.com/2013/03/12...ot-damage.html


.

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Old March 14, 2013, 04:27 PM   #37
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A 12 gauge shotgun with #4 bird shot inside of your home will get the job done. Just this past saturday I unintentionally destroyed the metal frame on my target holder with my shotgun using #4 from a distance of 10 feet. I doubt that any intruder would survive.
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Old March 17, 2013, 10:47 AM   #38
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Look harder for buckshot, it is around. New Columbus OH Cabelas has a whole rack of Rio #4 Buck and 00 too.

But yeah, birdshot is better than a ball bat.
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Old March 20, 2013, 12:19 AM   #39
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The thing about birdshot is that while it will do some real damage at close range, it may not immediately incapacitate an intruder. This is all the more a problem if the BG is wearing heavy clothing. If they are juiced up on somethihng and armed, you want an immediate KO.
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Old March 20, 2013, 06:40 AM   #40
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Quote:
The nay-sayers & pooh-pooher's, about using birdshot FOR SD/HD, should take a good look at the post I linked to, below.

[WARNING - VERY GRAPHIC PICS ! ! ]
In the article it says that he was getting the shotgun out of the trunk when the trigger was activated by a jack handle. That means the blast was right next to his arm point blank. Also in the x-ray there was still lots of birdshot that didn't penetrate the arm even at such close range. I know people who have been shot and have seen strangers shot with birdshot just past a few feet and walked away. Most healed up and you wouldn't know they were ever shot unless you saw an x-ray or they told you.

The only deaths that were the result of birdshot that I can think of off hand are suicides. Even from suicides I've seen with a contact wound to the chest the birdshot did not penetrate all the way through. I.M.H.O. the reliable lethal range of birdshot vs humans is in grabbing range of your shotgun which defeats the purpose of using a long gun in the first place.
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Old March 20, 2013, 07:15 AM   #41
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welll it makes a man with just a blackpowder handgun loaded with a plain roudnball feel mighty potent. birdshot of anysort gives a 22 short the downrange effects of a 357... just on penetration.

remember when cheney was out pheasent hunting and shot a feller by accident in the face with a shotgun, it happened at standard self defense range, yet all it did was cause painful lacerations to the face and neck.

not something to bet upon.
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Old March 20, 2013, 07:57 AM   #42
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Quote:
... the only ammo I could fine was # 4 shot .
I bet it'll do until you find something better. At in-room distances a center mass hit with #4 shot should take the fight out of anyone not wearing body armor. And It'll put a good hurt on anyone that is wearing body armor.
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Old March 20, 2013, 11:29 AM   #43
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It'll work a lot better than harsh words but it'll never work better than buckshot.
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Old March 20, 2013, 11:42 AM   #44
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4 shot in my 16ga for bird hunting. It'll do just fine for home defense as well, but I prefer 00 Buck in the 12ga for home defense if I use the shotgun. 9mm is my normal home defense gun.
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Old March 20, 2013, 04:54 PM   #45
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I had kept #4 buck in my HD pump for a long time. Inside the home and at short range, it's a fine round. Recently however, I have switched to #1 buck for my first couple of shots, followed by #00 buck. I never see #1 buck at my local sporting goods stores, but it can be found online.

I began to reconsider #4 buck after reading an account of a police officer, who used this shell in a shoot out with a bad guy. Long story short: the bad guy was hit center mass at 35 - 40 yds. The bad guy was wearing a heavy leather jacket. Not one pellet penetrated into a vital organ.

Now I don't think it prudent that any civilian follow a bad guy outside of your home. Make sure your family is safe, call 911 and wait for the Calvary to arrive. But after reading that LEO's account, I thought a shell with a slightly larger and heavier pellets might be the way to go.
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Old March 23, 2013, 02:26 PM   #46
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Quote:
I had kept #4 buck in my HD pump for a long time. Inside the home and at short range, it's a fine round. Recently however, I have switched to #1 buck for my first couple of shots, followed by #00 buck. I never see #1 buck at my local sporting goods stores, but it can be found online.

I began to reconsider #4 buck after reading an account of a police officer, who used this shell in a shoot out with a bad guy. Long story short: the bad guy was hit center mass at 35 - 40 yds. The bad guy was wearing a heavy leather jacket. Not one pellet penetrated into a vital organ.

Now I don't think it prudent that any civilian follow a bad guy outside of your home. Make sure your family is safe, call 911 and wait for the Calvary to arrive. But after reading that LEO's account, I thought a shell with a slightly larger and heavier pellets might be the way to go.
Apples and oranges my friend, there is a big difference between 20' or less inside your house at dark thirty and 40 yards on the street. Longest possible shot in my house is 8 yards but I practice my Defense drills at 8 yards to 25 yards with multiple targets with both of my home defense shotguns. 0 or 00 or 000 would be better but in my house that is contraindicated by my house layout and occupants so I opted for #4 birdshot after some experimenting and patterning. Not what I would use for outside the house but I have handguns and rifles for that eventuality if need be and it doesn't take me long to load a handful of slugs if for some reason I determine a shotgun would still be the better choice. It's good to have options but for those who don't have those options, (they may be limited in resources and supplies), so you gotta use what you got, use it as well as you can, keep your cool and don't panic if the bad guy does not fly backwards through the air for 20'.
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Old March 24, 2013, 10:13 PM   #47
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I watched a video account by a young man who found himself on the wrong end of a gang initiation. He was shot three times at less than 10 feet with a 12 gauge. Once in the arm, once in the chest and a grazing shot to the head. Then the perp left him for dead. The young man then proceeded to walk to get help. He was unconscious for several days. He made a full recovery.

http://youtu.be/0KAkAgNb-R8

Did it ruin his day? Sure. But that's not the correct measure here.

We're talking about a home defense situation here. That person that you shoot must be in the process of putting your life or the life of a loved one in peril. The question is; can I count on this shot to END this situation. If the perp has a weapon himself do you really want to bet that they won't be able to return fire? This kid got shot center mass and walked away... Literally walked away from the scene.

You do what you think is right, but as for me I figured out what the 'worst' patterning (loosest) 00 buckshot was and that's what's in my hd gun. It gives me a 10" circle at 15'.

Remington 3" 00 from Walmart in the 15rd packs. I also tested federal 00 and 000 classic. I found the 00 to pattern very tightly at 15'. 3-4". The 000 was a little looser at about 5".

Last edited by 111t; March 24, 2013 at 10:21 PM.
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Old March 25, 2013, 08:59 AM   #48
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111t

That was an excellent video. It appears, by virtue of the sheer number of pellets in the lung X-ray, that the victim was probably hit with either #8 buck or #8 bird shot. At any rate, the victim is very fortunate to be alive. These type of violent gang initiations (they can range from beatings to murder) have become a serious problem in many communities. Hopefully, the perp will serve all 35 years of his sentence, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Old Grump:

I think we are in basic agreement about the use of #4 buck inside the home. For up close and personal work, it is a fine HD shotgun shell. For those who live in apartments or have loved ones sleeping in nearby rooms, it's probably the way to go. But for those of us who live in more wide open spaces with no other loved ones to account for except my wife, a little more punch is more comforting to me. It is an individual choice and each gun owner has to decide where his/her comfort level is.
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