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Old January 19, 2013, 01:11 AM   #1
savage1r
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Operation Home Embargo

This notice goes out to every gun, ammo, and accessory manufacturer within and out of the US. Our many state and federal governments have made it clear that their near term goals include disarming the legal gun owners of this nation by taking away semi-auto firearms and standard capacity magazines. Here is my proposal: stop any and all current and future orders to any department of the federal government, any state that has or plans to enact an AWB, and any city run by [any mayors on this list](http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns..../members.shtml). How will you sell all that excess inventory? Every single gun store across the nation is bare. People are turning out in droves to buy up any semi-auto firearm and related mags, ammo, and accessories. You can run inventory through distributors and get top dollar instead of bid down bulk government prices. We win, you win, and those who would see the people disarmed will find themselves in the same hole. This benefits everyone, you will have guaranteed sales, constant demand, and constant profit. Ronnie Barrett took this stand with the state of California and his business is making millions and so will yours. Other manufacturers have already started taking on this policy and we ask you to do the same. Stand by us and we will stand by you.
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Old January 19, 2013, 01:22 AM   #2
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The big problem with trying to stop shipments or sales is the government has contracts with these companies. If they tried this they would be sued for breaching the contract.

Another thing many seem to forget is Obama's campaign was funded by the big banks. Many of these big banks finance the gun manufacturers.
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Old January 19, 2013, 07:26 PM   #3
btmj
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Well, I have thought about this too.... And just to keep it more limited and focused on real current events, how about this proposal?

What if the major gun manufacturers decided to no longer submit bids to any New York (state or municipal) agencies? What if the major ammunition makers, after fulfilling the current terms of their contracts, did not bid on any new contracts?
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Old January 19, 2013, 07:58 PM   #4
Al Norris
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What I would rather see them do is to not manufacture any 7 round magazines. None! Nada! Nope, not going there!

As it stands, the law is a de facto ban on all semi-auto guns capable of using detachable magazines.

There are certain legal implications of the law that would be mooted should someone began to manufacture 7 round mags for the few guns that are still lawful.
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Old January 20, 2013, 01:03 PM   #5
Glenn E. Meyer
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The Mayors against Guns

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...437.html?hp=l1

have the same idea. They think their buying power outweighs that of the gun owners.

Remember that gun companies were close to jumping on the band wagon for mandatory electronic safe guns. Big companies follow the money and don't assume they will jump on your ideology band wagon.

Kimber moved from gun friendly OR to gun hating NY - for the money and business.
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Old January 20, 2013, 01:23 PM   #6
Ben Towe
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Quote:
Kimber moved from gun friendly OR to gun hating NY - for the money and business.
I have yet to figure out why so many firearms manufacturers are in the northeast. It's unfriendly territory at best and I am almost certain operating costs would be cheaper in the South or Midwest.
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Old January 20, 2013, 09:13 PM   #7
wally626
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I have yet to figure out why so many firearms manufacturers are in the northeast. It's unfriendly territory at best and I am almost certain operating costs would be cheaper in the South or Midwest.
Just a guess, but many of the bigger gun companies in the US exisited from the time of the civil war or before, the industrial might of the US at the time was in the NE. So at least fo the older companies that is just where they were. Over time certain types of companies will cluster for various reasons, aluminum plants in the NW and Buffalo do to hydroelectric power, guns in the NE due to an exisiting base of skilled crafstman, steel mills etc.

Note: Glock's US operations are in GA, and I would expect most new companies to be in right-work gun friendly locations.
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Old January 21, 2013, 05:42 PM   #8
Willie Sutton
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I have yet to figure out why so many firearms manufacturers are in the northeast.



<sigh>... is American History being taught these days?

Read up a little about Eli Whitney and The Industrial Revolution.


New England was the center of the Industrial Revolution. From Massachusetts south to Connecticut, Yankee Ingenuity coupled with a good market for goods and cheap and reliable water power to run industrial machinery: This was where things were built.

It all started there and the legacy persists. Lathes, Milling Machines, Precision measuring instruments, and firearms all come from the same root.


BRIDGEPORT milling machines (Bridgeport CT)

Browne and Sharpe measuring instruments (Providence RI)

Pratt and Whitney machine tools (later aircraft engines, but first they made machine tools): Hartford CT

Etc..



Back to the OP's "point": Other than niche manufacturers, gun companies could give a rats ass about boycotts, etc. Their butter is spread firmly on the government contract side of the bread. You think Colt really cares about civil AR-15 sales? NYPD buys more than every civil purchase put together. Ammo? Have a look at the DHS purchase numbers. Follow the money, guys.


Willie

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Old January 21, 2013, 08:29 PM   #9
Ben Towe
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Quote:
<sigh>... is American History being taught these days?

Read up a little about Eli Whitney and The Industrial Revolution.
I've forgotten more American history than most people will ever know, sir. I fully understand why they were founded there. This isn't 1880, we finally got that newfangled electricity and those new interstate highways in the rest of the country too.

Quote:
NYPD buys more than every civil purchase put together.
Unlikely, there are 34,450 uniformed officers in the force. I'd hate to even venture a guess on the number of "civilian" AR-15 purchases over the past 35 days or so.
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Old January 21, 2013, 09:52 PM   #10
Mr.Scott
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I seriously doubt any city or state agency orders more guns than the national civilian market.
If NYPD is ordering that many guns, maybe they are behind the gunbroker auctions.
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Old January 22, 2013, 02:04 AM   #11
Willie Sutton
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I'd hate to even venture a guess on the number of "civilian" AR-15 purchases over the past 35 days or so.


Read what I wrote carefully:


I wrote: You think Colt really cares about civil AR-15 sales? NYPD buys more than every civil purchase put together.



I bet the numbers sold by COLT to civilians in comparison to government sales (military and civil government sales) are pretty damned small, and it's COLT that I was referring to. They sell FAR more weapons to the military and police than they do to civilians. When was the last time you saw a COLT AR-15 for sale at a gun store? MOST of the AR-15 type rifles sold to civilians are made by a hodge-podge of small firms. Very few to none of them will do anything to affect their small markets adversely, IE turning away sales to law enforcement groups in order to make a statement. That's just bad business.


The infrastructures of S&W and Colt and Remington et-al were all set forth in the early industrial age. It's expensive to move a factory, and as a result those factories have stayed and will likely stay right where they were built in the 1800's.


Best,


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Old January 22, 2013, 02:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
gun companies could give a rats ass about boycotts, etc.
Some of these gun companies have doubled their revenue in the last 2 years and it's not because of new contracts with the NYPD or Homeland Security. It's because Americans are buying guns at a record setting pace.

There is a reason why just about all of the bigger gun manufactures and even some small ones are making some type of AR style rifle.

If you think for a second that the American gun public goes unnoticed by the manufactures I think you may have missed the memo.
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Old January 22, 2013, 05:11 AM   #13
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NYPD does not buy more of any firearm than same gun in civilian sales. Far from it. And you did say that exactly, separate from your comment about Colt sales.

Colt started to care again recently about civilian sales once FN was allowed to make the M4 for US military sales.

Besides military only buys a few models of firearms in large qty from a few manufacturers. M4/M16A4, M9, maybe a few shotguns. No state or local PD can compete with civilian sales. Taking this stand would only affect a sales in a few NE states.

As one posted stated the civilian market is buying everything available and has shown a remarkable capacity to do so year after year of record setting sales.
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Old January 22, 2013, 05:52 AM   #14
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Just food for thought; since in their haste to shove through the new law in NY lawmakers failed to write in a law enforcement exception, I wonder if they stopped to consider how it would affect the manufacturers? Will it even be legal to build "assault weapons" in New York?
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Old January 22, 2013, 05:52 AM   #15
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pretty sure wally world has sold 1000s of colt 6920s in the last couple months
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Old January 22, 2013, 09:10 AM   #16
Willie Sutton
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If you think for a second that the American gun public goes unnoticed by the manufactures I think you may have missed the memo.


The point I am making, for those not too obtuse to understand it, is that the *mainstream* manufacturers are not going to do some pie in the sky boycott of providing their products to goverrnment purchasing agents in order to make a point. I mean, really: Do you see (Colt, Remington, Bushmaster, Smith & Wesson, etc.) refusing a purchase order from the NYPD or FBI or DHS?

Really?


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Old January 22, 2013, 09:57 AM   #17
btmj
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The point I am making, for those not too obtuse to understand it, is that the *mainstream* manufacturers are not going to do some pie in the sky boycott of providing their products to goverrnment purchasing agents in order to make a point.
I understand your point, and I agree (to a degree), but I think you may have overstated it.

It is true that no gun manufacturer is going to turn away a lucrative contract without an absolutely compelling reason to do so. They are not going to do this just based on principle.

But all of the gun manufactuers remember what happened to Smith&Wesson in the late 1990s. All the gun makers were approached by Clinton Administration to voluntarilly incorporate gun locks and other nonsense. S&W agreed, and the gun buying public pummelled them. Their sales dropped to a tiny fraction of what they had been, and government contracts did not come close to making up for the lost civilian sales. I think it took about 18 months for them to go effectively bankrupt... I don't recall if they actually declared bankruptcy or if they were simply sold off for a fraction of their prior value. Believe me, Ruger, Glock, Sig, Remington, Winchester, Colt, HK, Walther, etc have not forgotten about the punishment that was dealt to S&W.

So if the US gun buying public was motivated to boycott a gun manufacturer or ammo maker that bid on NY state or municipal contracts, I think the gun makers and ammo companies would sit up and take notice. Not a boycott of all government contracts, just NY...

Jim
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Old January 22, 2013, 09:31 PM   #18
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And an important aspect of that S&W "boycott" was it lasted for YEARS. The gun buying public did not stop all purchases for a few months. It slowly spread and ground away and NOTHING S&W did turned it around until the new owner flat out rejected the voluntary compliance. Once word got around S&W policies had changed and were backed up by actions things ramped up for them and they start coming out with the hugely popular M&P tactical line.

Any manufacturer that thinks they can turn their back on civilian sales for the sake of brown nose deals with govt agencies to the detriment of civilians will find the tactical crowd buys a BOAT LOAD of arms and gear and they have long memories of friend and foe.

Hard to say how this will play out but manufacturers would do well to make sure they are serving their gun buying customers and not govt whack jobs that may be out of office in 2-4 years.
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Old January 23, 2013, 12:11 AM   #19
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The most effective legal thing to do is boycott New York. Use them as a target for effect.

If only 25% of the populace that owned firearms would do this it might cause a state that can Ill afford more financial problems to notice.

If your considering a vacation, meeting etc. in New York change locations. Check any product your considering purchasing, if it's made in New York, look at one made somewhere else. Check where the ownership of any chain store or restaurant etc is. and if it's in New York look elsewhere.

Seems to be effective for most other groups of people.
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Old January 23, 2013, 11:06 AM   #20
Glenn E. Meyer
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Sounds good - and won't happen.

Only 6% of the gun favorable population actually contribute to progun organizations. So you are going to get 25% to do something. Fat chance.

Let's spend our time influencing legislators. If you are an executive for a manufacturing company in TX and the boss says you are going to NYC for a meeting - you going to say no?

And what is made in NY? CHINA!

Now telling the NE gun companies to move is fun but suggest to your state government to try to make deals. They do it for stupid sports teams.
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Old January 23, 2013, 04:46 PM   #21
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Willie is wrong.

WE put more money in the manufacturers' pockets when one considers what the gov't actually PAYS for the product.

In my county, Glock gave the PD pistols for FREE. (including holsters, training, armorer training, etc).

WE must let the manf. know we will not support them if they give NY LEOs more than 7 round capacity.

WE must let them know that we want them to move to FREE States or to treat Gov't agencies the way we are treated.

If folks like Willy want to sit by and do nothing, that is there right. But do not anyone else think, that as a group, WE can not get some things done.

As for Colt, they gave up on us in the 70's & 80's. May be a lost cause even if, just lately, they want our money again. Wonder why they are coming back to us?

It isn't called a fight because it is easy.
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Old January 23, 2013, 10:44 PM   #22
Willie Sutton
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If folks like Willy want to sit by and do nothing, that is there right.


(1): Take a short Literacy Test: Use the words "There" and "Their" correctly in a short statement.

(2): You have not the slightest idea what I do to fight for our second amendment rights, so do not presume to speak to the fact that I sit by and do nothing. I donate over 5 figures a year to 2nd Amendment causes and volunteer constantly.

(3): If private firearms owners can convince *one* mainstream firearms manufacturer currently selling duty weapons to any NY State LE Branch to restrict sales of same to those of 7 rounds or less, I'll eat my hat.

I would be VERY HAPPY to eat my hat, and I would give you an hour to raise a crowd. It's just that the real-world probability of that happening approaches zero.


Willie

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Old January 23, 2013, 10:47 PM   #23
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I feel the effort we put in attempting to lobby the major LE suppliers to not seel to NY would be better spent writing our Reps. Repeatedly.

Susie intern is just counting letters, she doesn't care where they come from.

And if the gun companies want to make money in NY, that is there right.

Can't fight for one at the expense of the other.
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Old January 23, 2013, 10:56 PM   #24
Glenn E. Meyer
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Getting snarky - cease that. I know emotions are high.

If a progun suggestion is made and someone comments that it won't work- there is no need to insult them.

Being practical in pursuit of gun rights is no vice.
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