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Old January 19, 2013, 06:43 PM   #1
BoogieMan
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Inexpensive long range

I want to hone my long range skills. I thought I would use my mauser 30-06 but it doesnt look like the barrel is up to the job. What can I get into for $500ish or on the used market that would fit the bill. A lighter caliber would also be fine.
22-250, 223, etc...
Recomendations:
Ruger american
Browning A bolt
Remington 700
Weatherby
Or am I going in the wrong direction. I would like to be able to sit and shoot 20 or so rnds between breaks without barrel heat drift (remngton 7600 is horrible about that).
Long range to me is 300-500yds
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Old January 19, 2013, 07:13 PM   #2
steveNChunter
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Order a Howa barreled action with a varmint barrel for around $400 and put it in the stock of your choice. The Howa action is tough as nails and pretty darn accurate. I have one in .25-06 that shoots 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards with factory Federal Fusions. And I cant shoot well enough to do it justice. Weatherby uses the Howa action for their Vanguard rifles, but you can buy a barreled action, spend a couple hundred on a good aftermarket stock, and still come out cheaper than buying a Vanguard. You will also end up with a better stock than what comes on the base model Vanguard. The varmint versions come in .223 and .22-250 as well as .204, .243, and .308.

http://www.legacysports.com/products...aractions.html
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Old January 19, 2013, 07:38 PM   #3
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Steve's got my vote. My favorite was the .25-06--until the big ammo rush. The .223 and .308 are definitely out now. I prefer the 7mm-08 in a short action, but would have to go for the .22-250 or .243 for economy now. Just watch the wind.

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Old January 19, 2013, 07:40 PM   #4
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You might also take a look at a Savage heavy barrel.
If you want to shoot 20 round strings of fire, a heavy barrel is really needed.

New, the Browning and Weatherby and most of the others are out of your price range, used rifles are a crap shoot.

300 to 500 yards is medium range and most any caliber will do, but the .308 or the .223 with heavy bullets will offer great accuracy, and more available ammo reloading components.
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Old January 19, 2013, 07:43 PM   #5
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Any modern centerfire .243 or larger should get you that far with ease, and there are a number of new inexpensive rifles that have a good reputation for accuracy out of the box, (Ruger American, Savage Axis, etc)

.223 can do it, but you need a fast twist barrel, faster than what tends to come on bolt actions (other than "tactical" ones.)

You may also be still able to do it with your Mauser, have you tried anything to improve the accuracy? There are some instructions here for a K98, most of it would probably apply to yours.

http://www.mausershooters.org/k98k/SC_tips2.html
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Old January 19, 2013, 09:24 PM   #6
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emcon5@ thanks for the link. I will check it out. My Mauser barrel is looking a bit pitted at this point but not that bad. I haveonly shot half dozen rnds through it with a bad scope. I am going to take it tomorrow and see what I can get going out of it.
At the same time I will be watching the used racks. Several stores near me have many nice bolt turn ins. I am pretty suire its due to people trying to finance AR purchases.
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Old January 20, 2013, 01:37 AM   #7
Dan Newberry
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Long range is a bit relative, I guess.

We run a long range school here in Virginia, and host practice shoots and long range matches every 4 to 6 weeks... we had a nice shoot today in about a foot of snow...

Anyway, if you're talking about 600 yards, the .223 with a heavier bullet, or the 22-250 with at minimum a 60 grain bullet will get there, but that's about the extent of their ability... and neither will arrive at 600 with a whole lot of power...

The .243 win is a good option, and we trained a guy recently and then helped him build a very low cost long range rifle... he's got less than 500 dollars in the whole rig, scope included...


truck bed paint on the factory tupperware stock... some plumber's putty (an old trick I devised) in the stock hollow... some glass bedding of the recoil lug and a skim bed on the receiver... and some glass bedding in the forearm to keep the barrel free-floating... and she really shoots...



The rifle also performs very well to 1040 yards. The 87 VMAX is a much better long range bullet for the .243 win than most of the heavier options. It's got an honest .400 BC...

I've shot a factory Savage 110 in .270 win, with a cheap 4x scope on it... (see the "ready rifle" mentioned on the bangsteel.com page)... and it works.

The sporter barrel heats up quickly with the .270 pushing the 150's at around 2750 fps, so I don't typically take the 3rd shot... but here are two, at the 24" steel plate at just over 1000 yards... the 4x scope doesn't even need a slanted base to dial that far, as it has 170 MOA of erector movement in it... as an aside, the crosshairs will just *barely* quarter the 24" plate at 1000 yards... but shots like these can be made with some very lowly, unassuming rifles you'd never suspect of being able to do this kind of stuff. The handload is the key...


But you don't want a rifle to heat up too fast on you... so I'd venture back toward the .308 win. It has some advantages over the lesser caliber cartridges that are gaining such popularity these days. First, it's not usually (usually, I said, notwithstanding the current rush on reloading components) hard to get brass and bullets for. The .308 barrel will last around 10,000 rounds, about 3 times what the typical .260 will last, and 4 times what a .243 barrel usually goes. And the .308 hits harder, with heavier bullets. We shoot them regularly against the 6.5's and they can hold their own very well--in the hands of someone who knows what he's doing...

I put together a "gun show" special earlier this year... it was an old Savage 110FP, heavy barreled (long action) .308... I worked the trigger... treated the stock as mentioned earlier in this post... installed some Burris Signature Zee rings (Weaver base compatible) with 30 MOA of offset in them... and I caught a Bushnell Elite 10x tactical scope on sale at Midway for 200 dollars delivered... and I ended up with just at 600 dollar in that rifle... and though I don't have a picture handy, I can tell you that it shoots like this:


So you can come up with something that'll work, if you shop around... even the sporter weight barrels can shoot well--for a limited number of shots--out to 1000 yards. And even heavy barreled guns get hot and "walk" the POI after 3 or 4 shots (depending on the cartridge)...

Good luck in your search.

Dan
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Old January 20, 2013, 08:38 AM   #8
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Great info. A lot of people seem to be leaning 308 these days. I have to wonder why it would be chosen over 30-06. I often wonder about the 270 as I havent heard much hipe about it in recent times. My father left several rifles and I left a couple for my azzhole brother. One of them was a 270 remington. It probably would have been my best choice out of the rifles for long range work. As it stands I own a 30-06 mauser, 2- 30-06 7600 Rems, Enfield carbine, 30-30. At 100yds the 30-30 has given me the best groups 1"ish with a 4x bushnell. Both 7600-s walk so bad after a couple rnds I really cant say. The sight on the 303 covers a 8" target, not that I can shoot irons over 50. I havent shot the mausere enough to say. Im going to give it a shot now and see what I can make it do with irons.
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Old January 20, 2013, 10:56 AM   #9
steveNChunter
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Another caliber overlooked for longer range targets, the 270's little brother. 25-06. But past 7-800 yards or so the .270 might have the edge. Ive never shot mine that far so I dont know.
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Old January 20, 2013, 11:45 AM   #10
Nathan
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A rebarrel job and good stock might be a better use of your time and money.

A savage 12 out of the box would be another good start.

In any case, a scope with repeatable turrets is key.
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Old January 20, 2013, 12:57 PM   #11
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I think you are going about it the wrong way looking for a new rifle. First off what is wrong with your Mauser's barrel? I'm guessing it heats up too fast, and won't allow your 20 shots between breaks. Hate to break the news too you but I doubt any barrel on any rifle your looking at in a $500 price range will hold up to 20 shots without wandering. Even 1000 yard benchrest shooters only shoot 10 shot strings, and a sporter weight barrel is only good for around three shots.

I think Nathan has the best idea so far, possible new barrel and stock, or a scope that has repeatable adjustments.

If your Mauser 06 shoots pretty decent already I'd spend $500 on a new scope (possibly mounts), trigger, and bedding job. I'd look at something like the Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14X40 PA scope for $300, Timney featherweight or sportsman trigger $50-75, skim bed and free float w/o pillars $100-150 or with pillars $200 at most gunsmiths. You might even look into a new firing pin by David Tubbs to improve the lock time on an old Mauser.

If it is time to rebarrel that old Mauser call IT&D Customs they have a great reputation for good work done fast at a reasonable price. Average turn around time lately has been 6-8 weeks and around $400 for a rebarrel with a Douglas barrel in contour and chamber of choice. However I'd probably stick with the 06 or .308 if you aren't reloading your own ammunition.

Lastly if you have to be able to shoot 20 rounds before a break you might try Teludyne Tech for that. Have them add one of their straight jacket systems to you existing barrel on your Mauser. I don't know what the cost is, but they are supposed to dramatically reduce heat.
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Old January 20, 2013, 04:33 PM   #12
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I'd take a look at the newly introduced Marlin X heavy barrel .223 or the earlier introduced .308 heavy barrel, they also have a .22-250. Own a couple of the marlin X rifles, nice adjustable triggers and mine are accurate enough for to try some long range shooting with. However, have another rifle I use for long range that has proven itself.
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Old January 20, 2013, 05:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
I am pretty sure its due to people trying to finance AR purchases.
That's how I just got a used Savage 111 in 270 with scope sling, detach box mag and 48 rounds for $290!! (Although for him it was an AK he was after.) First time shooting it was a mixed bag, I actually have a thread about it right now. I know not all used guns are good guns, but I'm very happy with my purchase.
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Old January 20, 2013, 07:32 PM   #14
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taylorc1@ thanks for all the info. My 20 shot string is probably on the long side. I just want something that I can shoot longer than my rem 7600. Thats about 3 shots and starts walking, running off. I went to range today to see what I can do with the mauser. There wasnt a bay open on any of the ranges. Los of new gun owners. I did look at a couple of rems with varmit barrels but they were both more than I want to spend right now. I just sparng for reloading equip.
While cleaning the mauser I found that it is nazi marked. It was sported in the 50's. Even so with the sentimental value and now the eagle crest I think I will let it stay how it is. I do have a set of rings coming for it. I will mount up a 4-14 Redfield that I have. I dont like to hunt with that scope because of narrow field of view. It will be perfect for up to 300 yds IMO. Ill keap my eyes open and see what shows up on the used rack as far as heavy barrel guns. Im open but thinking 308, 25-06, 30-06 maybe even something heavy like a 7mag.
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Old January 20, 2013, 08:44 PM   #15
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You need to look at the wind drift numbers for different cartridges. Drop at specific ranges is a given and can be precisely caluculated.
Wind, on the other hand, is variable and is much more difficult to dope. Look for bullets that buck the wind better like the .30 BTHP target/match form 155 grain on up.
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Old January 21, 2013, 12:14 AM   #16
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You should still be able to find a decent 1896 Swedish Mauser for about 500.

Enter stock military rifle only competitions. Have fun.

Seriously a Swede can be tweaked up into a great long range rifle.
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Old January 22, 2013, 01:04 PM   #17
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If your Mauser is a sporter, then ignore the link I sent earlier, it is for military stocked Mausers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoogieMan
The sight on the 303 covers a 8" target, not that I can shoot irons over 50
Switch to a six-oclock hold, there is no reason (unless your eyes are pretty bad) you can't shoot an enfield with Iron sights pretty far out. Even the No5 the sights are graduated to 800 meters.

You would be surprised how well some of the old military rifles can shoot over irons.

It isn't clear from your posts, what type of shooting are you wanting to do at 300-600 yards? Shooting groups, ringing steel, something else?
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Old January 22, 2013, 01:28 PM   #18
BoogieMan
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@emcon- If I switch to a 6 o'clock hold that solves the issue of seeing the target. My enfield (not sure if all do) has a hole for the back sight. To be honest I am not sure how to hold accurate with it. I center the front sight in the hole and shoot that way. If I flip it up I get a smaller hole that is probably more accurate if I dial it in. But I never have.
I found this websight http://www.enfieldresource.com/aperture-sights.
I have one of aperature sights. I will look through tonight and see which one. I can always screw a smaller aperature into it.
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Old January 22, 2013, 02:50 PM   #19
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Tangent, but OK, you got me curious about the Enfield.

What is marked on the left side of the receiver? You called it a Carbine, and there really is only one (generally available in the US) original Enfield carbine, the No5 "Jungle Carbine". It came with a flip up aperture sight, with a large aperture for ~200 yards, and a smaller micrometer type marked out to 800.

Does it look like this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMLE-NO-4-MK...-/220564564143

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