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Old January 18, 2013, 03:40 PM   #1
HJ857
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Spanish Mauser advice?

I just was given a sporter Mauser. All indications is that it's a Spanish 1916. The only marking is the circle cross stamp on the bottom of the trigger guard and matching serial numbers and a few stamps on the bottom of the receiver that I can't find any references for.

First off, it's a 7x57 chamber and it doesn't shoot at all. I spent three days running patches and brushes down the bore and removed somewhere around 8 pounds of crap and still going.

However the only rounds I can find locally are the 140 gain Remington PSP's. I've tested in twice with different scopes at 25 yards and am getting, at best, a four inch pattern. If my math is right, that's around 16 MOA.

I've seen posted on various internet sites that this chamber is best suited for a bullet in the 173 grain range. So first question - does anyone have a guess on how much difference a 173 grain round will make?

I'm willing to put some money into the rifle, I like the way it feels and looks, but not sure it's worth it. What's your feeling on whether a new barrel is worth the cost and what kind of accuracy could be expected from a rifle of this class?
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Old January 18, 2013, 04:54 PM   #2
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Quote:
I just was given a sporter Mauser. All indications is that it's a Spanish 1916. The only marking is the circle cross stamp on the bottom of the trigger guard and matching serial numbers and a few stamps on the bottom of the receiver that I can't find any references for.

First off, it's a 7x57 chamber and it doesn't shoot at all. I spent three days running patches and brushes down the bore and removed somewhere around 8 pounds of crap and still going.

However the only rounds I can find locally are the 140 gain Remington PSP's. I've tested in twice with different scopes at 25 yards and am getting, at best, a four inch pattern. If my math is right, that's around 16 MOA.

I've seen posted on various internet sites that this chamber is best suited for a bullet in the 173 grain range. So first question - does anyone have a guess on how much difference a 173 grain round will make?

I'm willing to put some money into the rifle, I like the way it feels and looks, but not sure it's worth it. What's your feeling on whether a new barrel is worth the cost and what kind of accuracy could be expected from a rifle of this class?

From what data I have found the original M1893/M196 small ring rifles in 7mm Mauser had a service bullet of 173 grains that only went 2100 fps in a 29 inch barrel.


Now I am going to tell you that the best thing to do is not sink any money into this rifle. Since it was free, you are not out any money on it, and that is a good thing.

Spanish Mauser rifles as a class have a poor reputation and it is deserved. You just have to spend time looking to find that these old actions, and they are very old, were built in a period of primitive and non existent process controls, were made of out plain carbon steels that today, are so cheap and low grade that they are used for rebar. Rifle receivers today are made of alloy steels which have a much higher yeild and tensile strength. Spanish mausers are among the worst built of early mausers.

So, lets say you rebarrel it. Your reloads would have to stay within 19th century pressures and velocities because you run the real risk of receiver seat set back.

You can better spend your money on something new, something that you can push a 7mm or whatever, to modern velocities and pressures.


Excessive Headspace in M1916 Mauser

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost....9&postcount=10
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceans
Thats funny Maj. Dad, I knew a correctional officer in the late '80s, who had one of them in what was supposed to be .308. This guy loved that rifle like it was a 1930s model 70. He talked about it constantly, shot it every time he went to the range and even bought an expensive case to haul it around in. I was always leery of a 1893 action chambered in .308. I was told that the Guardia Mauser was chambered for a very similar Spanish round, and not the NATO 7.62x51, and that this Spanish round was loaded to lower pressures. I do not know if this is true, maybe someone on the board does? I will say, that the rifle is handy, and nice looking.
Oceans - It is true, as I found out today, sadly.

I've had my 1916 Spanish Guardia Mauser from Samco for about 20 years now. Took it deer hunting every year until last year, when I heard about the same thing you did. I shot .308 rounds out of it.

Finally got the headspace checked by a gunsmith, and - well, the bolt locked EASILY on "no-go". And we're talking like butter. I snapped the firing pin and will have it hanging on the wall of my office soon.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=632782

I recommend...
________________________________________
that you honorably retire the rifle.
My experience with the Spanish '93-type actions is that they are not suitable for rebarreling to any modern cartridge at all.
They are all soft (many years ago, I watched an old gunsmith squash one in simply tightening his action wrench onto it. When he noticed that the barrel shank wouldn't thread back into the action, and realized why, he simply took the receiver out of the wrench, laid it on his bench and smacked it with a big brass hammer until he could screw the barrel back in).
With pressures higher than about 40 KPSI (virtually all modern CF rifle cartridges), the locking lugs will set-back into their seats very quickly, increasing headspace until the bolt becomes hard to open and case heads separate. Several years ago, a customer (and friend) decided he'd like to make up a 7.62x39 rifle on just such a '93 Spanish action. I couldn't talk him out of it, so made and fitted a barrel for him. In shooting about 200 rounds of Wolf ammunition, it battered itself into just the state I described above.
Just my recommendation, but not based on hearsay.
PRD1 - mhb - Mike
Interesting thread on old mausers:
http://dutchman.rebooty.com/1895Chile.html
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Old January 19, 2013, 12:24 AM   #3
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All in all, Spanish Mausers are not bad rifles, but they are old and worn out, and typically were not very good to begin with. That said, I have owned several of them over the years, and I fired thousands of military surplus 7X57 ammo through them with no issues. When it was time to retire them, they got turned into something I could give away and not feel too bad about it, or they got scrapped.

Lately several of these rifles have been offered to me, and all had similar stories: it was dad's/grampa's/uncle's rifle and now it's mine, what can I do with it. If it's in good shape, it's a shooter. If the rifle is worn out, it's not worth fixing, so let it die.
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Old January 19, 2013, 07:23 PM   #4
HJ857
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Thanks guys. I appreciate the info.
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Old January 24, 2013, 03:41 AM   #5
ben_raines
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Spanish Mauser

I own an Oviedo model 1928 in 7x57. It still shoots resonably well despite to low rep some Spanish Mauser have had. I use primarily 165gr PSP reloads and have brought down a few deer over the years. I bought it in the early '80's for about $85, it was the first Mauser pattern I owned that was still on the military furniture. The serials match all the way around.. barrel, receiver, bolt, trigger plate, stock, and even the cleaning rod. It is pretty much a wall hanger now, and looks sweet with the short style bayonet.

I ppretty much retired it since getting my first Brno 8mm, then my Erfurt 8mm. Don't know why, but I have just preferred Mausers for most of my life, and seem a little biased to them.

If you dont get rid of yours, make it wall hanger. Just because it might have some weak points, doesnt mean you can't show it off.

"She may be old and have a history, but she is still pretty, and she's all mine."

Just my .02's worth.
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Old January 24, 2013, 12:22 PM   #6
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I happen to like a Spanish Mauser, as long as it's kept chambered in a cartridge similar to it's original design - the 7x57, no slouch as a sporting/game gun.

They make a nice lightweight Sporter/stalking rifle - so, if I had one that wouldn't shoot good, I'd consider an inexpensive replacement 7x57 barrel, similar to the $35 Yugo bbls that Sportsman's Guide had in their last flyer, & install it.

I've made a few, doing the work myself - ending up with a nice-looking Sporter for under $300, total, including the donor.
If someone needed a gunsmith to do the work, my WAG is that it's be economically unfeasible - considering that a new Marlin X7 could be had for under $400.


.
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Old January 24, 2013, 02:03 PM   #7
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I would recommend slugging the bore, it may be shot out and it may have even been rechambered for 30-06 or 8mm mauser as these are much more common hunting rounds and were very easily available in the 50s and 60s when these rifles were literally $5 at your local sears.
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Old February 10, 2013, 09:28 PM   #8
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A long time ago I wound up with a very fine, almost unused Chileno Modelo 1895Mauser.

It was/is in beautiful shape and I suspect seldom if ever used.

It loves 7mm Mauser 139 Gr Prvi Partisan (Made in Serbia) out of its 29.6 inch barrel at 2740 and almost does 1 holers at 100 yds. This is the original, pencil thin barrel. When I try to shoot something like Federal the groups open up to about 4 inches at 100.

If you have, say, an 1895 with the long barrel, shoot the Prvi Partisan ammo and you'll have an excellent, accurate deer rifle.

Don't forget, this was the rifle that devastated Teddy Roosevelt and his rough riders at San Juan hill. 750 Spaniards killed over 1500 Americans with that rifle.

The critical factor with these rifles is bolt thrust. Unless you micro-polish the chamber and then grease your chamber and cartridge you won't get anywhere near the design load of this rifle.

If you want to learn more about bolt thrust see http://varmintal.com/afric.htm

Even with a chamber so smooth it's almost impossible to obtain, the bolt thrust is still less than what the Mauser bolt was designed for.
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Old February 12, 2013, 01:08 AM   #9
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From 400 yards with open sights, "iraqiveteran8888" does alright on his Youtube channel with the Chilean Mauser (7mm).

If later military Mausers somehow could have been designed with a rear aperture sight, as with my several Enfield #4/Mk. 1....
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Old February 12, 2013, 01:29 AM   #10
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Quote:
A long time ago I wound up with a very fine, almost unused Chileno Modelo 1895Mauser
Those are fine rifles, some of the best pre-98 Mausers. However, they were made by Mauser Werke and later DWM. They are not Spanish Mausers, although the Spanish did make some Model 1895 rifles and carbines.
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Old February 12, 2013, 07:25 AM   #11
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I think my 1895 is Spanish made, & like the OP, mine did not group well with modern factory ammo... mine was worth saving, as it had been ( what looked like ) professionally sporterized years ago, turned bolt handle, jeweled bolt, replacement adjustable trigger, & a nice replacement stock, & been drilled & tapped for a scope base, & probably reblued, as it's very nicely finished...

I picked up a new 7mm magnum "take off", Remington 700 barrel from the guy that sells them in Shotgun News for around $100 & I had my retired machinist buddy rechamber the barrel back to 7 X 57 with a shorter throat than on the original barrel, to better fit the lighter bullets... while he had the rifle I had a cock on open kit installed...

have yet to get it out to punch some paper, but every indication, is that it'll be a tack driver... BTW... the rifle is very solid, & I have a 7 mag, so I don't have any reason to hot rod the 7 X 57... expect it'll shoot great, for much longer than I'll be around... total cost... around $225 for the rifle as I bought it, a couple $100 for the scope, $125 for the barrel & cock on open kit, $75.00 to my buddy to do the work... total net cost $625.00 but worth every dollar as far as I'm concerned
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Old February 13, 2013, 01:09 AM   #12
tahoe2
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Spanish Mausers

There's a lot of " Love em or Hate em" guys on this topic. I have two of em.
A 1931 Oviedo carbine, 1916 pattern, and a 1932 Oviedo long rifle 1893 pattern.
I do reload and I keep pressures low @ 45,000 CUP and below, both are very accurate for their age. If I need something more powerful,
I will use something else from the safe. They are great fun, deadly on deer, antelope, bear, and the like, and I never feel undergunned in my neck of the woods;
so I guess I'm in the " Love em" category .
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