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Old January 18, 2013, 03:24 AM   #1
rayway
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Pistol Ammuniton Accuracy.

Im a firm believer of to the extent that simple quality ammo will perform with better accuracy than other ammo that is not quite on par to other ammo simply put. I think accuracy of the cartridge being easier to shoot more precise for more people dictates that ammo is very helpful to achieve better results. Who here has a similiar understanding of this idea ? Be sure to tell about what your shooting buddies think about you when they contradict your proven choice of ammo as inaccurate. Thanks People
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Old January 18, 2013, 05:24 AM   #2
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Different guns (barrels) shoot different bullets differently. A given gun may not shoot as accurately with the same load in another gun. What degree of accuracy are you looking for?

For the absolute best accuracy you will want to slug your barrel and use a bullet matched to the groove diameter. Once you have that, you will need to experiment with different powders and charge weights to find the sweet spot for that particular gun.

With my 30-06 for example I size the brass then I process each case in a LEE target die set which removes all of the variables to the case neck, I then sort the brass into lots by weight, headstamp etc. I measure and weigh each powder charge and use an RCBS competition die to seat the bullet. Doing this results in loads capable of sub MOA in my rifle.
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Old January 18, 2013, 08:13 AM   #3
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I have been re-loading for over 40 years and have never heard the term "simple quality" ammunition. What exactly do you mean and what is the definition of "simple quality"? This sounds like a drive by post.
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Old January 18, 2013, 08:52 AM   #4
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I have found by shooting for some 50+ years, . . . that the ammo and the gun are generally far and even, . . . FAR, . . . more accurate than the shooter behind them.

That said, . . . ammo (IMHO) ranges "most accurate to least accurate" by the classifications: Personal Hand Load, . . . to , . . . Walmart sale specials.

Most of my "accuracy" loads have generally been using standard components, and the powder charge usually is just above the center of the suggested amounts, . . . as a general rule.

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Old January 18, 2013, 02:01 PM   #5
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It could be that he refers to the standard factory loads for chamberings that are recognized as "inherently accurate", such as the .38 Special.
I never ran across any off the shelf U S manufactured .38 Special ammo that wasn't accurate in every revolver I tried it in.
My handloads were a smidgeon more accurate, enough to make handloading worthwhile, but not entirely necessary.

Some may obtain better effective accuracy from a particular type of handgun by tayloring the load for specific barrel length, or downloading (in charge weight or bullet weight) to reduce felt recoil to extend personal shooting efficiency over long strings.
Such as in ultra lightweight pistols in standard chamberings or in pistols chambered for hard kicking magnum cartridges.

A load taylored for a specific type of shooting may require a much lighter bullet at a higher velocity than available in a standard factory load for best accuracy at the intended ranges, and with less drop to avoid excessive holdover.
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Old January 18, 2013, 02:15 PM   #6
rayway
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Yes when I said simple quality I meant like quality target ammo or most JHP self defense ammo when I said not on par I meant bulk target ammo generally for practice and the other ammo as being the cheap target ammo family. Yes I meant to note Inherently More Accurate ammo. And LOL no im not doing a 'drive by post' haha I guess my question is kind of varying with which gun your shooting. So pretty confusing.

Last edited by rayway; January 18, 2013 at 02:26 PM.
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Old January 18, 2013, 02:58 PM   #7
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Wished I knew what was said.
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Old January 18, 2013, 03:36 PM   #8
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Having used a number of bulk and better quality (Higher Priced) ammunition over the years I have not found that consistancy/accuracy is automaticly better when the price is higher. This last year I added another 9mm pistol to my collection and after putting 400-500 rounds through the gun found it much more accurate with metal cased bulk ammunition than a moderatly more expensive brass cased ammunition that cost me 6 cents a round more. I believe that the best approach is to try different grades of ammunition in a particular gun and see what is the most accurate. Sometimes "price" of the ammunition is not the deciding factor.
OP-Maybe it's just the way I am reading your wording, as your choice of words is a bit confusing, but is English your first language?
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Old January 18, 2013, 04:47 PM   #9
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I think I get the idea...

Yes. Accuracy is most often the primary quality I desire in ammunition. I want the bullet to strike directly where I send it, and not detour in flight.

However, accuracy is relative to purpose.

Handgun accuracy for target shooting must deliver exact accuracy results at 50 yard or 50 meters, depending on the contest.

Defensive handgun accuracy must group no more than 5 inches (a head shot) at 25 yards or meters, but must have other criteria, such as suitable power levels and reliability.

Accuracy standards for long range rifle shooting is more stringent than accuracy standards for hunting dangerous African game. As are the power and reliability standards.

But for general practice and pleasure shooting, accuracy is paramount.
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Old January 18, 2013, 06:01 PM   #10
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It has been my observation that the better known "brand" ammunition such as Winchester, Federal, etc. will display better accuracy through tighter groups.

That being said, it is the consistancy of the cartridges, rather than one round delivering better acuracy than one round from another batch.

Quality control is the key here. A man I know weighs each bullet, each powder charge, and separates his cases into lots as he loads. He, or course, shoots bench rest.

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Old January 18, 2013, 06:14 PM   #11
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Modern factory ammo is all pretty good. I have yet to find a load that won't shoot at least minute of POS out of my guns. If you're a bullseye shooter maybe you're looking for that Nth degree of accuracy but for general range or SD use anything that comes from a quality manufacturer will be plenty accurate out of the majority of guns.
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Old January 18, 2013, 06:18 PM   #12
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Some ammo is more accurate than others. In pistols, most people won't ever know which is which because properly evaluating the ammunition requires a very accurate pistol and either a very accurate shooter or someone willing and able to test the ammo carefully from a rest.

In my experience, most any ammo that is good enough quality that I would allow its use in my guns produces satisfactory accuracy.

Here's a 10 round group I shot at 15 yards with an STI GP6 using 6 different kinds of budget practice ammo all fired into the same group.



The entire group, all 6 different kinds of ammunition, measured only 2 inches in size.
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Old January 18, 2013, 07:08 PM   #13
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Any quality ammo will be more accurate than 98% of shooters. Only a few very talented shooters will benefit from super premium match ammo. I also believe that the main reason so many match shooters reload is to save money, and there is nothing wrong with that.
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Old January 18, 2013, 07:53 PM   #14
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I may have misunderstood, but I think what rayway is trying to say is that ammunition that is easier to use, presumably ammo that is not so powerful or does not have high recoil, is easier for most people to shoot accurately.

If that is what he means, I agree. It does no good to have ammunition with super performance if the blast and recoil are so high that the shooter flinches badly and cannot control where that bullet goes. For SD, a low velocity wad cutter bullet that goes to the right place is more effective than a super bullet that misses by a mile.

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Old January 18, 2013, 08:34 PM   #15
Bob Wright
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Quote:
I also believe that the main reason so many match shooters reload is to save money, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Col. Charles Askins once said, in efect, "When I knew I had an especially important match coming up, I loaded it (The Ammunition) myself."

I load my own ammunition to customize my load to my shooting requirements. It is no more accurate than I can buy, but neither can I buy a more acurate round than I can load.


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Old January 18, 2013, 09:38 PM   #16
rayway
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I have shot the good old copper and brass FMJ alloyed bullets they seem to be far less accurate as the lead cast bullets. I love the lead cast for its accuracy. Mabey I would qualify as a pistol marksman.
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Old January 18, 2013, 09:49 PM   #17
rayway
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Bob that sounds absolutely correct the shooter can fine tune his ammo to his specific preference. I never thought hard enough on that. Its a very good idea.
Thanks, Rayway
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Old January 18, 2013, 10:13 PM   #18
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I am not sure you realize that what was said was not what was meant.
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Old January 20, 2013, 12:27 AM   #19
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My problem is not so much inaccuracy as technology. My chosen load is a 230 gr HydraShok. I get all the time how "that's yesterday's tech, you need to be using HSTs!" Problem is, HSTs are woefully inaccurate and inconsistent when compared to HydraShoks in my gun, and yes, I've tried them to the tune of 2 different boxes from 2 different lots.

When you have a proven load that practically one-holes for you at SD distances, that's the one you use, not another that's simply touted as "the best."
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Old January 20, 2013, 01:19 AM   #20
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I agree with Bob. One of the most important aspects of "quality ammo is consistency.

Most of us have shot good groups with cheap bulk ammo. Over time though Those groups will not remain the same. This is more true with surplus ammo which can have a few squibs.

Most of us would be very very happy with 10(ten)moa with our handguns. That's about a 1" group at 10yds.
At least two of my guns are capable of that kind of accuracy and I'd bet they'd do better in a machine rest.
But when I come into the equation I'm satisfied with about 40moa. That's keeping everything on 9 1/2 x 11 computer paper at 25yds.
The accuracy of the ammo isn't a big factor.
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Old January 20, 2013, 02:48 AM   #21
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Old January 20, 2013, 10:20 PM   #22
Bob Wright
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JonnKSa:
Quote:
Some ammo is more accurate than others. In pistols, most people won't ever know which is which because properly evaluating the ammunition requires a very accurate pistol and either a very accurate shooter or someone willing and able to test the ammo carefully from a rest.

In my experience, most any ammo that is good enough quality that I would allow its use in my guns produces satisfactory accuracy.

Here's a 10 round group I shot at 15 yards with an STI GP6 using 6 different kinds of budget practice ammo all fired into the same group.



The entire group, all 6 different kinds of ammunition, measured only 2 inches in size.
John,

Your target would have been far more meaningful had you fired six targets with ten round groups of each different cqartridge. That would have given us the relative accuracy, or lack of it, of each different cartridge.

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Old January 20, 2013, 10:27 PM   #23
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Here are two targets from yesterday, using two different guns, a 4 5/8" barrelled Ruger Blackhawk and a 4 3/4" barreled Uberti Flat Top Target. The load of 8.0 grs. of Winchester 231 behind a 255 gr. cast SWC has been my pet .45 Colt load. The two guns were as near identical as possible, except for the sights.




The Ruger has a beautiful square notch rear sight and quick draw front on a ramp, while the Uberti has a very good square notch rear and a nickle silver blade set in a plain base for a front sight. I shot each gun in five round strings alternately so fatigue would not favor either revolver.

Bob Wright

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Old January 20, 2013, 10:58 PM   #24
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Your target would have been far more meaningful had you fired six targets with ten round groups of each different cqartridge. That would have given us the relative accuracy, or lack of it, of each different cartridge.
That's not what I was trying to demonstrate with the test.

If I want to compare the accuracy of various types of ammunition in a given pistol I shoot a number of groups using each type of ammunition and then compare the results.

In this case, the point of the test was to show that it doesn't matter that much what practice ammunition you use as long as you maintain a reasonable level of quality and stick to the same bullet weight. I see people agonizing about which ammunition will be more accurate in their handgun. In fact, I used to be one of them.

Then I started noticing that the various brands of practice ammunition were more similar in terms of accuracy and point of aim than they were different.

The point of the group is that if you can shoot a 10 shot group at 15 yards with 6 different types of ammo and still have the whole group measure 2", agonizing over which of the 6 types is best in that gun might not be the best use of your time.
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Old January 20, 2013, 11:54 PM   #25
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