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Old January 16, 2013, 09:12 AM   #1
bird_dog
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Revolvers Vs. New York Law

I know new 'New York' threads are getting closed as fast as they come up, but I have a specific question, pertaining to revolvers:

I've read the law and can't find anything addressing revolvers with capacities greater than 7. Anyone have any idea if they are or are not a part of this legislation?

Thanks,

Joel
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Old January 16, 2013, 09:57 AM   #2
kayakersteve
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Should be fine at this point because they do not have removable magazine
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Old January 16, 2013, 10:00 AM   #3
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I'm thinking they 'should' be too. It's the details that scare me. In the process of securing a Taurus 992, and just want to make sure that it's going to be legal. Or am I going to hear some version of Cuomo's speech, such as "you DON'T NEED NINE SHOTS TO KILL A SQUIRREL!!!".

Fellow WNY guy here.
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Old January 16, 2013, 10:00 AM   #4
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Actually, the New York threads being closed are the ones generally opening discussion which is already ongoing...

Yours seems different enough that I cannot call it a redundant thread...

Brent
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Old January 16, 2013, 10:03 AM   #5
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Revolvers... Do they have a "magazine" or is it a "cylinder of chambers"?

Brent
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Old January 16, 2013, 10:05 AM   #6
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Thanks Brent.

I have a revolver magazine. Has about 120 pages. I might be in trouble.
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Old January 16, 2013, 10:06 AM   #7
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You may want to hammer that revolver "magazine" into a plowshare....

Brent
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Old January 16, 2013, 10:21 AM   #8
Musketeer
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Given their ability to change the meaning of words I would not be surprised to see a double action revolver considered a semi automatic pistol with a fixed magazine.

They wrote the law with zero input from anyone but their side as far as I can tell. They will interpret and enforce as they see fit.
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Old January 16, 2013, 11:00 AM   #9
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Quote:
Given their ability to change the meaning of words I would not be surprised to see a double action revolver considered a semi automatic pistol with a fixed magazine.
Well, technically, since one pull of the trigger equals one round fired there isn't a whole lot of difference until you need to reload, but of course they aren't limiting how many magazines you can carry (yet). The antis aren't really the sharpest tools in the shed, so it might take a while to dawn on them.
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Old January 16, 2013, 12:30 PM   #10
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The law is against magazines holding more than 7 rounds. Magazines.
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Old January 16, 2013, 12:53 PM   #11
Musketeer
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Tom, the law goes on to define an assault weapon.

If you have a 1911 with a compensator it is an assault weapon now.
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:16 PM   #12
carguychris
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Quote:
The law is against magazines holding more than 7 rounds. Magazines.
Tom, I'm going to have to play devil's advocate here.

The law doesn't simply restrict magazines; it restricts "large capacity ammunition feeding devices", which are defined as...
Quote:
...a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device, manufactured after September thirteenth, nineteen hundred ninety-four, that (a) has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition, or (b) contains more than seven rounds of ammunition, or (c) is obtained after the effective date of the chapter of the laws of two thousand thirteen which amended this subdivision and has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than seven rounds of ammunition; provided, however, that such term does not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition or a feeding device that is a curio or relic... (definition of curio or relic omitted for brevity)
[Emphasis mine]

My argument is that a revolver cylinder is similar enough to a "drum" that it may fall under the definition of an "ammunition feeding device", if the NYSP takes a hard line in their interpretation of this provision, which I suspect they will.

The good news is that AFAIK hardly any revolvers with a capacity of over 10 rounds even exist, and current 8-10 shot revolvers in NY will be grandfathered.

I do, however, believe that revolvers like the S&W Model 627 (8-shot) and Ruger Single Ten (10-shot) are now verboten for new commercial sale in NY.
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:38 PM   #13
Jim March
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Oooops...and here I just went and proved you can add magazine feeding to a revolver...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4XtVldNbO4
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:54 PM   #14
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And black powder revolver cylinders were removable and replaceable for faster reloading. Which isn't directly on point but could be used to bolster an arguement.
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Old January 16, 2013, 03:14 PM   #15
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Of course if anybody in NY sees this video of Jerry Miculek shooting a revolver you can be sure the revolver shooters will be out of luck too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uisHfKj2JiI

I'd really like to see their reaction when they realize what they HAVE NOT banned. Maybe we could tell them this is a typical revolver shooter with four hours of really good range instruction under their belt.

And to Jim March, thanks a lot buddy!!!

(Jim March - I've followed your threads on this and they have been very entertaining and informative and hope to see even more stuff from you.)
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Old January 16, 2013, 03:15 PM   #16
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It really depends upon how the regulations are written, in implementing this law.

As it is worded, I can see a clear path that a detachable cylinder can be considered an "ammunition feeding device." For a non-detachable cylinder, I can see that a speed loader could also be considered as such.

For those of you that have M1's, make sure your stripper clips are 1 rnd short of full.

At least until the regs are actually written and you can see what is what.

The above is based solely upon how the actual wording of the law is and how courts have, by and large, interpreted those words. I am not an attorney nor am I a legal expert of any kind. So take what I have written with a large dose of salt.
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Old January 16, 2013, 04:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
For those of you that have M1's, make sure your stripper clips are 1 rnd short of full.
Pardon the slight sidetrack- not to mention my own ignorance- but will an M1 function properly if the en bloc clip is inserted with only 7 rounds in it?

Also, the definition of "Curio or Relic... Ammunition Feeding Device" may allow out-ot-state purchase of M1 clips if owners and the NYSP can come up with a reliable and consistent method of determining whether a simple unmarked sheet metal doohickey is more than 50 years old, and then registering that doohickey.

One other interesting note... as far as I can tell, the "Curio or Relic" provision should still allow the purchase of 32rd "Trommelmagazin" drum mags for Luger-type pistols, since they've been out of production for well over 50 years!
Quote:
At least until the regs are actually written and you can see what is what... The above is based solely upon how the actual wording of the law is and how courts have, by and large, interpreted those words.
+1, although IANAL either.
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Last edited by carguychris; January 16, 2013 at 04:11 PM. Reason: added info
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Old January 16, 2013, 04:24 PM   #18
Al Norris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carguychris
Pardon the slight sidetrack- not to mention my own ignorance- but will an M1 function properly if the en bloc clip is inserted with only 7 rounds in it?
Certainly. Slide one or two cartridges onto the stripper clip and insert as usual. The clip was designed to hold a max of 8 cartridges, because that's all the magazine well will hold.

Just make sure you don't come away with the infamous garand thumb!

Quote:
Also, the definition of "Curio or Relic... Ammunition Feeding Device" may allow out-ot-state purchase of M1 clips if owners and the NYSP can come up with a reliable and consistent method of determining whether a simple unmarked sheet metal doohickey is more than 50 years old, and then registering that doohickey.
Clerk: Thank you sir. You've just completed the registration requirements for 10 dohickies.
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Old January 16, 2013, 05:23 PM   #19
EricReynolds
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What if you have an 8 rd speed loader? Is the term "magazine" clearly defined?
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Old January 16, 2013, 05:37 PM   #20
carguychris
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Quote:
What if you have an 8 rd speed loader? Is the term "magazine" clearly defined?
Article 265 of the NY Penal Law apparently never clearly defines the term "magazine" despite using it numerous times.

The key provisions are excerpted in my first post. If I were a betting man, I would wager that it will boil down to whether the NYSP and/or the courts determine that a revolver cylinder constitutes a "drum... or similar device."
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Old January 16, 2013, 07:03 PM   #21
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This will end up getting challenged.
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Old January 16, 2013, 09:01 PM   #22
wayneinFL
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From Merriam-Webster:

Quote:
5: a supply chamber: as
a : a holder in or on a gun for cartridges to be fed into the gun chamber
b : a lightproof chamber for films or plates on a camera or for film on a motion-picture projector
Of course, it doesn't really matter what the dictionary definition is, it depends on how the courts interpret the law. Seeing as how it says "similar device", it could be anything. A clip, speedloader or revolver chamber.

Here's something weird- a Garand has an 8 round magazine, so is the Garand banned, too? They didn't say detachable magazine.
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Old January 16, 2013, 10:41 PM   #23
hermannr
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IMHO: Revolvers are not affected by this new law. Maybe NYCPD will issue everyone one of the revolvers they used 50 years ago.
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Old January 16, 2013, 11:11 PM   #24
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I have read that in their wisdom the writers of this boondogle did not include language to exempt NYLEO or eh humm themselves or their security forces.

They may well be issuing revolvers to the PD.
Isnt the cylinder of a revolver tubular in shape???
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Old January 17, 2013, 11:38 AM   #25
JimDandy
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Closer to Drum. Tubular is one inline cavity, and also only 22LR tubular magazines are exempted from what I saw. A lever action NOT in 22LR could in theory break the law.
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