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Old January 17, 2013, 07:30 AM   #1
Moby
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What makes a firearm an assault rifle

Funny, I took the rifle in the top picture and purchased the exact stock, the Archangel, in the bottom picture. AND I STILL DO NOT WANT TO SHOOT ANYONE!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...assault-rifle/

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Old January 17, 2013, 08:30 AM   #2
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What's sad is both rifles pictured in that link are illegal here in New Jersey.
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Old January 17, 2013, 08:43 AM   #3
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here is a better pic.

Quote:
"What makes a firearm an assault rifle"

it is that little lever that can be selected to the FA position !!

any rifle without that FA position is NOT an assault weapon !!

simple, plain and clear.., at least for those intelligent enough to understand terminology !!
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Old January 17, 2013, 09:29 AM   #4
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Your premise is correct. There is no definition for "assualt gun".
The Federal definition for "assualt rifle" has several points but the main one is it must be full auto.
The media automatically classifies all firearms as "weapons". Guns that look like ARs are classed (by them) as 'assualt rifles or guns' incorrectly.
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Old January 17, 2013, 10:12 AM   #5
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If we can change the term we use, I think it would be helpful. I know many that are calling AR style rifles "sport rifles" or "defense rifles".

The laziness of the media to properly call a duck a duck is killing us.
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Old January 17, 2013, 11:20 AM   #6
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You are not going to change the term. G&A and the firearm industry have tried to change it to MSR (Modern Sporting Rifle) for years. Ok, if you are going to do it, get something catchy. Assault Weapon like it or not has that for the press, MSR doe snot.

At some point, you have to accept you are spitting in the wind and while you do not have to use the term, you have to argue on the basis of others using and accepting the term (and not just the opposition, the large group in the middle that is trying to make sens of all this)

So, first

ITS THE SECOND AMENDMENT! Its not the third, 4th or tenth. The though it was that damned important. Inherent in the 2nd is both gun ownership and civic duty.

Second (pun): The gun available and used by the armed forces in those days was the musket. Regardless of how you feel, the modern equivalent of the musket is the AR (frankly I think the ergonomics suck, but it is what they equipped the US forces with)

By default, if the civic duty and requirement (gun ownership right aside) is to be honored, you should have an AR.

Last: Read the book and encouraging other to, Living With Guns. You may not like all that is in there and you likely will see some technical items wrong as I did, but its a basis for discussion.
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Old January 17, 2013, 11:28 AM   #7
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Once you call a gun a modern sporting rifle - you are trying to pretend that it is not a dangerous weapon useful for the defense against tyranny.

It's for hunting. So what.

Ok - let's ban armor piercing bullets. Are most center rifle rounds able to penetrate body armor without ceramic plates?

Bye, bye - bambi killer sporting rifles.
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Old January 17, 2013, 11:32 AM   #8
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If it is black then it must be an EBR. All EBR's are assault weapons. Or so I am told by the media.
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Old January 17, 2013, 12:15 PM   #9
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I have decided to try to misname objects when I talk to people that insist on being ignorant. Wheels will become rollers. Computers will become adding machines or just contraptions. When questioned about, I am simply going to say "Whatever. You know what I mean." Ignorance seems to be fashionable these days. I give up on trying to educate anyone, they win. Rant over.
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Old January 17, 2013, 04:16 PM   #10
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perception.
When I was 5, I made "assault weapons" out of legos and/or sticks from our back woods. They all came with built in silencers.

Probably I should have had a license of some sort....
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Old January 17, 2013, 04:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
I have decided to try to misname objects when I talk to people that insist on being ignorant. Wheels will become rollers. Computers will become adding machines or just contraptions. When questioned about, I am simply going to say "Whatever. You know what I mean." Ignorance seems to be fashionable these days. I give up on trying to educate anyone, they win. Rant over
+1
My buddy and I have been doing this for a while now, especially around our anti-gun friends who think that he and I are at all times only a few seconds away from becoming the next mass-shooting. Sadly, they haven't caught on to the fact that we're satirically poking fun at their ignorance. Instead, they just think we're dumber, and therefore, more dangerous.
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Old January 17, 2013, 04:48 PM   #12
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We can squabble all we want about definitions in an attempt to outsmart the anti's on trivia, or we can call a spade a spade and defend it. An AR is a rifle born and bred for fighting. Hunting with one is akin to using a flathead screwdriver to turn a phillips head screw. It can be done, but there are better tools.

The more we pretend that ARs are no more useful in combat than a lever action rifle, the more we look like nut-jobs with our heads in the sand. Eventually, we'll drive away any logically minded gun owners who are afraid of getting lumped in with the whackos.
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Old January 17, 2013, 10:14 PM   #13
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I tend not to agree with the above idea at all.
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Old January 17, 2013, 10:16 PM   #14
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I can't think of a better rifle for hunting coyotes than a Remington R-15.

And my ideal rifle for hogs would be an AR- variant in 6.8 SPC.

And for the record, if I was to deploy to Afghanistan again, I think I would want either an M-16A4 or an M-21.
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Old January 17, 2013, 10:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardworker
We can squabble all we want about definitions in an attempt to outsmart the anti's on trivia, or we can call a spade a spade and defend it. An AR is a rifle born and bred for fighting. Hunting with one is akin to using a flathead screwdriver to turn a phillips head screw. It can be done, but there are better tools.
An AR may not be a master of any, but it sure as heck is a Jack of All Trades. And with someone that can't afford a gun for every task, the AR can default to being the best tool for that person.
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Old January 17, 2013, 10:48 PM   #16
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I like this....

http://www.assaultweapon.info/

TK
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Old January 18, 2013, 12:21 AM   #17
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Its the dangerous looking plastic and the pistol handle because anything with a pistol handle is obviously a weapon of mass destruction and death ray like...

No insult to anyone but I wouldn't use 5.56 for anything larger than small game like ground hogs and maybe a fox or something.. Certainly not my choice for big game.. (Again, I am not discrediting how others feel about it) but hey in the mass media, its better than everything else.. Even Fox News calls them Heavy Duty weapons, which is truly about the last thing on earth they are... They are weapons for certain but generally on the much lower end of the rifle power scale. (exceptions for 308 and the like)
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Old January 18, 2013, 12:26 AM   #18
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I recently re-read "Point of Impact" by Stephen Hunter, which the film "Shooter" was loosely based off of.

In the novel, a highly decorated Marine is set up as the fall guy for an attempted assasination of the President. In the course of the novel, Mr. Hunter, who is a great friend to the first two amendments to the Constitutions, a fictional editorial from the Washington Post decryiing the supposed weapons used by the protagonist.

What rifle is that?

A pre'-64 Winchester Model 70 in .308, but decried by the fictional editorial as a high-powered sniper rifle.

That gives me pause sometimes when I think of how worked up the MSM gets over what Col. Cooper called a "poodle shooter" and I once or twice angrily referred to as my "mall ninja male enhancement tool", what would they say of just about every scope equipped deer rifle in this country?

That's to say nothing of big game rifles or some of the magnum caliber rifles out there.
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Old January 21, 2013, 03:04 PM   #19
alan
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Try this for size re the original question:

1. Media Hype.

2. The ever present element of public ignorance, stoked by item 1.

3. The passing winds of political fancy.

4. The constant barrage of flat out lies from The Anti Gun Lobby.

The foregoing are a few things that come immediately to mind.
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Old January 21, 2013, 06:01 PM   #20
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As yhoghurt says:
"Moichandising, moichandising" (spoken tongue-in-cheek)
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Old January 21, 2013, 10:19 PM   #21
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assault is an action not an object. You can be assaulted or engage in an assault but no object is an assault.
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Old January 21, 2013, 10:38 PM   #22
chris in va
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Quote:
assault is an action not an object. You can be assaulted or engage in an assault but no object is an assault
Mmm, it can be a noun as well. Assault Ship comes to mind.

Look, we can split hairs all we want. The AR is a powerful rifle, mainly due to it's capacity. We have to ALL be very responsible gun owners and keep the things locked up as best we can afford when not in use.

They're saying the 15yo also used one, but not confirmed. I want to know how Adam Lanza got a hold of his mother's.
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Old January 22, 2013, 11:06 AM   #23
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Wow guys, get your English right. In "assault ship" Assault modifies the noun. Add the word adjective to your dictionary

And as for a verb, yes assault is a verb or an adjective.


As for the rest. These weapons are supposed to look dangerous, and be dangerous. They are intended for us to keep and be able to use if necessary to protect our lives, freedoms, and our nation from those how would take them away.

So get on your A game fellas.
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Old January 22, 2013, 09:36 PM   #24
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Quote:
What makes a firearm an assault rifle
Any journalistic idiot with a pen.
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Old January 23, 2013, 01:30 AM   #25
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here we go...again...

Quote:
Quote:
"What makes a firearm an assault rifle"


it is that little lever that can be selected to the FA position !!

any rifle without that FA position is NOT an assault weapon !!

simple, plain and clear.., at least for those intelligent enough to understand terminology !!
And even those who are intelligent enough to understand the terminology can make mistakes, as show in the above quote.

It boils down to the usage of language, translation, and context. We are talking about two nearly identical terms, yet each one refers to very different specific things, in law, and a third thing as well, in common usage. Let's look at the first two, to begin with.

ASSAULT RIFLE
This term was coined by Adolf Hitler. Leaving aside the rather interesting history, the basic facts are that when Hitler was shown the weapon, he decreed that it was to be the Sturmgewehr. Sturm is German which translates into English as either "storm" or "assault", in the military sense of storming or assaulting an objective. Sturm also translates as "storm" in the meterological sense, depending on the context.
Gehwehr translates as rifle. Sturmgewehr is assault rifle.

After the war, the shooting community adopted the main features of the Sturmgewhr to define the class of arms called assault rifles. The primary features are selective fire (the ability to fire both semi auto or full auto on demand) a detatchable magazine, and an "intermediate power" cartridge. If it had all of these features, it was an assault rifle. If it didn't, it wasn't.

(intermediate power cartridge was loosely defined as more powerful than the standard WWII era pistol cartridge, and less powerful than the standard WWII infantry rifle cartridges)

All other features usually found on most assault rifles (bayonet lug, pistol grip, etc..) were just cosmetic, and immaterial to the classification of the gun.

Under US law, all weapons capable of full auto fire are legally machineguns, and fall under the regulation of the National Firearms Act of 1934.

The ONLY assault rifles legally in the hands of US citizens are those that were registered with the ATF before May 19 1986, on which the $200 tax has been paid, multiple layers of background checks have been performed, and the owners have obtained written permission from the local head of law enforcement. NO new ones have been allowed since congress closed the registry in 86.

ASSAULT WEAPON
This is a term made up by the anti gunners, assisted by the media, and codified in law in 1994, thanks to politicians.
It went like this...Stockton Schoolyard shooting, semi auto AK47 used. Media screams, he used an assault rifle!!! Sanity responds with "No, he used a rifle. Assault rifles are select fire (semi & full auto)."
Media screams "He used a semi automatic assault rifle!!!"
Now, "Semiautomatic assault rifle" is quite a mouthful, and not the optimum sound byte. Although the media did persist with the term for some time, by 94 they had all settled on the name "assault weapon". And the weapons they were calling assault weapons were semi auto rifles, pistols, and shotguns, if they had a given combination of the cosmetic features that were on the "evil features" list. NOT machineguns, NOT assault rifles, SEMI AUTO firearms, many models by name, and all others if they met the criteria on the list.

This was codified into Fed law in the 1994 AWB (assault weapons ban), and several states also passed state laws at this time that were virtual carbon copies of the Fed law (without the sunset clause), or were even more restrictive.

Note that the recent New York SAFE act has seriously increased the restrictions and expanded the list of banned features over the still in effect 1994 NY AWB.

In effect, ASSAULT WEAPON means what ever they write into law saying it is.

Those are the big two, and the anti's deliberately chose the term assault weapon to confuse the issue. The semi auto AR that they say is an assault weapon looks identical to the M16 that is an assault rifle. The semi auto AK looks identical to the full auto one. Unless you can see the selector in the full auto fire position, you cannot tell from a picture which one is whch, AR, AK, and many other semi autos look just like the full auto ones.

The third thing clouding the discussion is the context of the word assault, in English. Some people say that any weapon used to assault someone is an assault weapon. And, sadly, in English, they are correct, but in the wrong context. When discussing things in law, we must be precise, AND correct. Even if the other side isn't.
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