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Old January 16, 2013, 12:59 PM   #51
aircorpnut
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1. "Issue a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system."

2. "Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system."

3. "Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system."

4. "Direct the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks."

5. "Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun."

6. "Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers."

7. "Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign."

8. "Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission)."

9. "Issue a presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations."

10. "Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement."

11. "Nominate an ATF director."

12. "Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations."

13. "Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime."

14. "Issue a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence."

15. "Direct the attorney general to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies."

16. "Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes."

17. "Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities."

18. "Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers."

19. "Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education."

20. "Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover."

21. "Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges."

22. "Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations."

23. "Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health."
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:01 PM   #52
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I just "stickied" the thread, for now.
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:03 PM   #53
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Thanks Al.
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:04 PM   #54
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State rep in Texas is introducing a bill that would make it a felony to enforce any federal law regarding restricting semi auto weapons and magazine capacities.

One wrote (paraphrasing) if it is not allowed for us to enforce federal laws such as immigration then why would you think I would enforce a federal law about firearms.
Guess that would be what's good for the goose is good for the gander.


Found the quote and link
"We're restricted and prohibited from enforcing all types of federal laws, including immigration laws," he said Tuesday. "It would be unreasonable for anyone to think that I would enforce a federal firearms law."
http://www.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.ht...0843_pageNum_2
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:05 PM   #55
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In the list of EO I didn't really see anything that would pertain to me so much, I do see oppoetunities for people to get hosed by the healthcare system.

I would hope that if developed mental disorders my family would step in and remove my few guns.

I will read the rest of the calling on congress suggestions as some of those comments are disturbing.
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:06 PM   #56
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Uncle Teddy tried that "body armor piercing" angle once before, and specifically referenced 30-30 ammo, IIRC.
If they case it off the oldest and weakest standard of armor, the old level IIA, then it would restrict a HUGE amount of ammo. If the standard was set up to Interceptor or steel armor, there would still be large numbers of calibers restricted, and forget getting anything to feed your Barret L-82...if you had the bucks to buy one, you lucky skunk, you.
Yes, this could be very bad, even if they restricted it to only ammo designed specifically to go through armor, as it has been for quite some time.
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:06 PM   #57
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The ones that concern me are these:

Quote:
4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.
Those criteria are established by the 1968 GCA. Do we want the Attorney General to have the power to establish new categories of ineligible people?

Quote:
5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.
So, a quick NICS check. Already happens in most jurisdictions.

Quote:
6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.
And how do they do that when there's no such regulation with which to comply?

Quote:
9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.
Let's bear in mind that "recovered in criminal investigations" casts a pretty wide net.

Quote:
11. Nominate an ATF director.
Directors have to be approved by Congress, which is why we haven't had one since Truscott left in disgrace. Urge your Senator to oppose any candidate for the job until acceptable action is taken with regards to Fast & Furious.

Quote:
12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.

13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.
About time on both of those.

Quote:
14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.
Again, urge your elected officials to defund any such measures. The NRA has done so successfully before.

Quote:
15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies.
Letting the free market make its own choices? Be still, my beating heart!

16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

Quote:
17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.
I thought it did, but to be honest, I have not read the whole of the ACA. Can anyone here clarify?

So, more cops on the streets, a few feel-good measures, some stuff that won't pass muster, and a few troubling things on mental-health reporting. We have a road map of the fight ahead now.
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:08 PM   #58
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Many years ago some in Congress were trying to ram through an armor piercing bullet ban...

I THINK Kennedy, maybe Mario Biaggio, and some others were behind it. It fell apart really quickly when it became common knowledge that the law, as written, would have banned about 95% of all rifle ammo, and better than 50% of all handgun ammo, including MANY that had absolutely no capacity to penetrate armor at all.
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:08 PM   #59
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@Glenn: You wouldn't need many Republicans to defect at all to get something through the house. The majority is slim. 17 Republicans would need to defect if every Democrat supported the bill.

Realistically you would probably need more like 25-40 Republicans to defect because some Democrats wont go along with an AWB.

I am more worried myself about a magazine ban, I think unless we keep a lot of pressure on our reps a mag ban by itself could get through.

@ Tomm: I am with you, #4 is the only really worrysome thing to come out of all those EO's. I don't like the idea of Eric I Don't Think Anyone Should Own Guns Holder somehow making modifications to who can and cant own guns.
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:10 PM   #60
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Quote:
Hunters, where are you?
Personally? I'm in NY. Still trying to figure THIS mess out and how it affects my collection of hunting AND non-hunting firearms, just like everyone else.

Haven't had time to look closely at today's speech yet, but I will.

Yes, I hunt. Yes, I have handguns. Yes, I care.
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:15 PM   #61
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I think it's the magazines they want most of all.

The suggested bans sounds like they are more interested in quelling an insurrection that hasn't happened than fighting crime.
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:17 PM   #62
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Yes, I hunt. Yes, I have handguns. Yes, I care.
Understood and I wish you and your fellow citizens the best.

I know many hunters are concerned and engaged. However, I have many friends and family that hunt, but just don’t seem concerned. We need all gun owners to wake up and see what has happened in New York and what could happen other places.
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:23 PM   #63
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No, I don't think it's the magazines they want most of all, it's the newest of buzz terms - "universal background checks", which is NewSpeak for "no more private sales", and the stepping stone to registration. Current background checks do not call in serial numbers, just "handgun or long gun", but that could change with an EO addressing existing law, I think. Then remove the ability to skip the background check with a state issued CCW permit, and whammo, universal background checks for all, and private sales eliminated.
One guy said, "it's still a private sale, you selling to someone else!", and my response is, "if the government insists on knowing everything going on, there's nothing 'private' about it"
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:23 PM   #64
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Quote:
Hunters, where are you?
Let's knock that foolishness off once and for all.

There are plenty of hunters who support the whole of the RKBA. There are also plenty of "tactical" guys who couldn't care less about draconian new background-check measures or preserving hunting lands so long as they get to keep their hi-cap magazines.

And there are far too many gun owners of all stripes who can't even be troubled to vote. The silly stereotypes only serve to turn folks against each other at a time we really need unity.
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:28 PM   #65
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Sorry. Let me apologize my point was not made very well. I was not insinuating that hunters are not engaged, but pointing out that proposed armor piercing ammo bans could impact hunting ammunition.

If I was unclear and/or off base I do apologize.
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:30 PM   #66
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Barry, my comments are directed to the readership in general.
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:36 PM   #67
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After hearing Cuomo's pathetic rant against "assault weapons" and his claim that "nobody uses them for hunting" I wonder how many hunters inundated his office with pictures of the deer, hogs, etc. that they have taken with just such firearms. There must be millions of such pictures.
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:39 PM   #68
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I read between the lines and saw that Obama is treating Doctors and healthcare professionals as employees of the government.

What i really fear for now, is for when any more laws are passed by legislation, what his NEW EOs will be...
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:44 PM   #69
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Yes, yes he is, and that IS scary - remember how anti the AMA is.
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:45 PM   #70
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#1 and #6 both concern me greatly.

#6 because this is about private sale of firearms requiring background checks. Depending on how this is implemented it could result in effectively registering every firearm in the country as it may also include all transfers including gifts, inheritance, etc. It would take time, but within a generation or two, they would have a listing of everyone who "legally owns a gun".

#1, because there are alot of Federal Agencies like;

IRS, are you in money trouble, stress means no gun for you today.

Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS), got a relative who is not a citizen, No gun for you.

DoD, any problems during military service, PTSD?, minor sscrape with your CO, "who was a jerk by the way", No gun for you.

Bankruptcy court, Sorry Sir, you are a bad risk, No gun for you.

Commerce Department, Sir, do you have business dealings in other countries?

US House and US Senate, Have you ever sent a nasty letter to a Congressman?


OK, some of these may be over the top but you do get the idea.
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:45 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyrick
In the list of EO I didn't really see anything that would pertain to me so much, I do see oppoetunities for people to get hosed by the healthcare system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
The ones that concern me are these:
Quote:
4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.
Those criteria are established by the 1968 GCA. Do we want the Attorney General to have the power to establish new categories of ineligible people?
I don't see too much danger here from executive orders per se. Given that the 1968 GCA established the criteria for prohibited persons, it would take an Act of Congress to change them -- all the AG can do is make recommendations/propose changes. As Glenn pointed out, the political makeup of Congress makes it pretty unlikely that they'll pass significant extensions of existing laws.

I'm not too troubled by the mental-health reporting stuff, for the same reason. Clarifying, even broadening, what health-care personnel can do in terms of reporting won't change the criteria established by 18 USC 922, which restricts who is reprted to the Feds to anyone who has been "adjudicated as a mental defective or has been [involuntarily] committed to any mental institution." Both involve action by a court, otherwise known as "due process."

If Congress were to pass a law altering this requirement, so as to allow people to be disqualified on the say-so of health-care workers, that would be an egregious violation of 5th Amendment rights, and would, I believe, be immediately challenged in court.

There's also nothing wrong with finding ways to make states do what they're already required to do in terms of reporting commitments etc. to the FBI. State privacy laws and lack of funding for adequate record-keeping are most of the problem there.

On the other hand, encouraging mental health workers to do what, at least in my state, they're already required to do, i.e. report anyone whom they believe to be an immediate danger to themselves or others, is a fairly good idea.

The other EOs around mental health are basically about making treatment more accessible, which is a fine idea, but takes money...

Last edited by Vanya; January 16, 2013 at 01:52 PM.
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:48 PM   #72
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Yes, add #4 to #s 1 and 6.

Just because they break these orders down individually do not fail to see the combined effect of the whole.

And of course the nullifying argument that the only reason the 2nd amendment was written was either to arm the militia, meaning "National guard and Reserves", or to hunt/target shoot.

We know this is not the case. the 2nd amendment was put in place so that the people could ultimately guarantee their own freedom.
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:56 PM   #73
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I'll take required background checks over lower capacity magazines everyday. I have no criminal record so it will not affect me at all. I'm assuming some people here must have one as they are so against being screened. Maybe they shouldn't own guns anyway.
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Old January 16, 2013, 01:57 PM   #74
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17. "Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibi

What is intent of this EO if it were to get worked into a future gun control law? Could open the door to mass gun confiscation just from pyschiatrists reporting a so called past mental illness to authortities. Mentall illness definitions are subjective to begin with and if incorporated into new gun control measures could bring about large bans against firearms ownership. If an AWB can't be enacted into law as they want, a trojan horse like this could be one way for them to accomplish something similar.
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Old January 16, 2013, 02:01 PM   #75
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If one accepts that registration of every privately owned firearm is a necessary step preparatory to seizing all privately owned firearms then would you still be unconcerned that in order to sell "or transfer" a privately owned firearm to any other individual that you must "report" the sale to the federal government?

The only way they can ensure compliance is if all the guns you own are registered even if registration is given a different name.

And Apom, this isn't just a requirement for you to be screened if you buy a privately owned firearm, it's a requirement for the seller to perform the screening which includes you if you wish to sell a gun to someone else. Almost certainly at your own private cost.

But as soon as you add the word transfer, money and sales go out the window and gifts and Dad's old shotgun being passed down after he goes walks in the front door.

There can be many reasons one might object to this and suggesting that I have a criminal record is slanderous sir. I am by far removed from such a thing and resent your comment personally.

Of course if you wish to retract your veiled slur I would be inclined to accept
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