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Old January 15, 2013, 10:46 PM   #1
HBoswell
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A better, cheaper Idea

In light of recent events, I feel it should be remembered what the Second Amendment was created for. Simply put, self preservation. The Founding Fathers weren't stupid or naive when they wrote this, they were simply looking out for the safety of all Americans since they knew that the greatest threat to a free society is a Government run amok.

I recently viewed a You Tube video which was the best explanation of the Second Amendment I have seen. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn7bk...ature=youtu.be) Well worth viewing as well as Larry Correia's Blog "Larry Correia refutes the gun controllers once and for all" which you can read here. (http://1389blog.com/2012/12/23/larry...e-and-for-all/) It is a long article and will take you some well spent time to read.

I am very concerned that the recent events and Joe Biden's panel of discussion on gun control will produce nothing more than a very expensive, pointless, and probably unconstitutional series of new federal regulations which will do nothing more than cost the American taxpayers another bucket of deficit expanding money. Therefore, I have come up with what I believe could be a more reasonable solution to the problem, emphasis on the word, Problem.

What is the problem? The problem is not "Gun Nuts", it's "Nuts with Guns". "Gun Nuts" apparently would be any law abiding American exercising their God given right to own a firearm to protect themselves and their family, at least according to the rhetoric coming from the main street press. If we, as a society, really wish to solve the problem, we will need to take personal responsibility and do whatever we can to make sure that the people who shouldn't have guns don't have them or access to them.

So, I think this would be an excellent time for our leaders in Washington, DC to do something smart and sensible for a change. It won't cost a lot of money and may actually work to just go ahead and push forward with a National ID with a few small changes. We have the technology to create a secure ID for every legal citizen in the country at the State level (Drivers license or State ID) which meets the Federal Standards to prevent counterfeiting and fraud. So why not just go ahead and do a background check at the time your ID is issued and if you are of age and clear the check you get your ID and can purchase and posses firearms, if you so desire. If you fail the background check for any reason, (under age, domestic Battery conviction, Felony etc.) your ID will come with a clear symbol of "NO GUNS"(a red circle with a pistol and slash) indicating that you are not allowed to own or posses firearms.

The background check would also need to include any record of the person being deemed mentally unfit to posses a gun. This is where things get a little sticky, because, the Government has passed a few laws which prevent us from doing this. If someone is found to be mentally unfit to own or be around firearms, their Doctors are legally bound not to disclose it under the HEPA laws. They need to change that. It might just go a long ways towards actually preventing another tragedy like we had in December.

The new ID would serve two purposes, it would serve to show that the holder is qualified to purchase firearms and is eligible to vote, thus preventing fraud on two fronts. As to the disenfranchised voter argument, the high cost of the ID ($10-$40) for people of limited means could easily be off-set by the savings of eliminating the background check offices in every state which would be replaced by the DMV which is already doing a background check on everyone who applies for an ID now. reThe Dept. of Redundancy Dept.) Oh, and by the way, any State that feels it is necessary to issue a drivers license to an illegal alien could be required to print a "NO VOTE" symbol as well as a "NO GUNS" symbol on those ID's. Remember, these would be Federal Standard ID's and would have to comply with the Federal Law. As a matter of fact, under the Federal Standard, States probably couldn't issue licenses to illegal immigrants anyway since they wouldn't pass a background check, they have no Social Security numbers.
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Old January 15, 2013, 11:25 PM   #2
sigcurious
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Quote:
It won't cost a lot of money
Not sure how you figure implementing a secure ID system for 10's to 100's of millions of people from the ground up wouldn't cost a lot of money.

Quote:
So why not just go ahead and do a background check at the time your ID is issued and if you are of age and clear the check you get your ID and can purchase and posses firearms, if you so desire.
You're suggesting what is effectively a National FOID, not a national ID if it serves no purpose other than to "legitimize" firearms purchases. See below.

Quote:
The new ID would serve two purposes, it would serve to show that the holder is qualified to purchase firearms and is eligible to vote,
It's called voter registration, already takes care of that problem effectively, voting fraud is often talked about but has never been proven to be a significant issue.

Quote:
As to the disenfranchised voter argument, the high cost of the ID ($10-$40) for people of limited means could easily be off-set by the savings of eliminating the background check offices in every state which would be replaced by the DMV which is already doing a background check on everyone who applies for an ID
So now you're forcing states to do federal work? You don't happen to remember the issues surrounding the passage of the brady bill do you... See Printz V United States...things will start to sound real familiar as to forcing non-federal people to run background checks in the name of the fed. Furthermore, do you even understand how the current NICS/background check system works? A majority of states do not act as point of contact(meaning they have no background check offices specifically for firearms background checks as you suggest), and many of the states which do run parallel systems already charge a fee, and do not absorb the cost themselves.

Furthermore, you admit there is a high cost to these IDs, yet say it wouldn't cost very much?

Quote:
Oh, and by the way, any State that feels it is necessary to issue a drivers license to an illegal alien could be required to print a "NO VOTE" symbol as well as a "NO GUNS" symbol on those ID's. Remember, these would be Federal Standard ID's and would have to comply with the Federal Law. As a matter of fact, under the Federal Standard, States probably couldn't issue licenses to illegal immigrants anyway since they wouldn't pass a background check, they have no Social Security numbers.
Remember you don't have to put your SSN on the 4473, furthermore legal aliens are allow to own firearms and they don't have SSNs either. Also are you saying this would be a drivers license too?


Your idea would not be cheap, it would be of explicitly unconstitutional on some levels, and questionably unconstitutional on others. All under the guise of protecting our rights and public safety? Aside from increased mental health reporting, how does what you propose functionally do anything better than the existing systems and at a lesser cost?

Quote:
they knew that the greatest threat to a free society is a Government run amok.
Yet you openly invite more government intervention that begs further intrusions...
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Old January 15, 2013, 11:33 PM   #3
coachteet
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Your federal ID would do exactly nothing additional above and beyond the current NICS check used by FFLs currently. The current system has the advantage of being able to pick up any disqualifying event that has happened up to date. Your ID, I assume wouldn't need to be renewed monthly, right? So you have a clean background check done, ID card issued, then get convicted of a felony. 1 year later you walk into a gun shop and buy a gun with your ID card.

Also, requiring an ID that costs money as a prerequisite to vote infringes on the right to vote. The homeless guy living in a shelter has the same right to vote as you or I do. There should be federal legislation specifically prohibiting states from requiring this. In person voter fraud is virtually non-existent.
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Old January 15, 2013, 11:38 PM   #4
SC4006
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I can not thank you enough for posting these two links, the second one ESPECIALLY sums up how I feel about guns. My sister and I have been in a dead heat argument about gun control and we couldn't see more far apart, his points are perfect for my argument with her. I think Larry Correia has a very realistic view of firearms and gun control, while anti gunners have a sort of "dream world" idea about gun control. I will use what Larry Correia said in my argument against any anti gunner that I encounter (my sister mainly).
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