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Old January 30, 2013, 01:06 PM   #1
Guv
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40 S&W 23 yrs old

So if 40 S&W is indeed losing favor (not sure I believe that) anyone have an idea how many clibers have really come and gone in the last 25 years? Pistol calibers only.
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Old January 30, 2013, 01:21 PM   #2
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I just bought my first 40 S&W last month, it's just coming in to favor for me !!
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Old January 30, 2013, 03:32 PM   #3
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What does gone mean, not found at big box stores or do you need a 12th degree level of Google fu to find

9x25 dillon certainly doesn't fill the shelves at academy but can still be had online with ease

If you stretch it to 30 years you have the "bren ten" 10x25, which was replaced by the .40 S&W (shorter and weaker) its not common but you can find it at big box stores

A lot of people say the .357 sig will be vacationing with the dodo, I hope not, think this may be the most recent ammo developed that has seen some success but is not mainstream.

The 5.7 was designed by FN to try to replace the 9mm for NATO, was supposed to work in a pistol and sub machine gun. NATO didn't adopt it.
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Old January 30, 2013, 03:47 PM   #4
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Can you still get .41 AE?

Oops sorry. Looked it up and it was introduced 27 years ago.
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Old January 30, 2013, 03:51 PM   #5
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.356 TSW is one that never really went anywhere to speak of.
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Old January 30, 2013, 04:00 PM   #6
Mike Irwin
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.25 and .32 NAAs

.45 GAP (technically still alive, but gasping)

.327 Ruger (same as above)
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Old January 30, 2013, 04:02 PM   #7
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A lot of the most common rounds today have been around 50-60 even over 100 years. The reason for that is because physics does not change. I have always said that 40s&w is not a caliber that will make it to the 100 year mark with a strong following. I would not say that the 40 is in any kind of trouble in the immediate future. Tens of thousands of law enforcement officers are still using it as are countless civilians. 45gap and 357 sig are in much bigger trouble in that regard then the 40sw is. When you see a big switch in leo's to the next big thing that's when things are in decline.
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Old January 30, 2013, 04:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
...anyone have an idea how many clibers have really come and gone in the last 25 years?
Define "gone". Few pistol cartridges truly disappear, as an enthusiast can handload virtually anything, but some have fallen largely into disuse.
Quote:
.356 TSW is one that never really went anywhere to speak of.
+1, along with another competition-oriented 9mm cartridge, the 9x23mm Winchester.

Another candidate- if revolver cartridges count- is the 9mm Federal, a rimmed 9x19mm Luger derivative released in 1992 for use in the then-new Charter Arms Pit Bull* revolver. Unfortunately for Federal, Charter Arms went bankrupt almost immediately after the revolver went into production, and very few were sold. Although it was dropped from production very quickly, the ammo is ironically a good deal easier to find than the gun, because IIRC its rim dimensions are not compatible with most revolvers set up for 9x19mm with moon clips, and autoloading pistols will not feed it properly.

*The previous Charter Arms Pit Bull- and the Charter Arms company that produced it- bear little relation to the current Charter Arms Pit Bull, which is set up for conventional 9x19mm using special ejector tabs instead of moon clips.
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Old January 30, 2013, 04:16 PM   #9
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40 gone?!?! Not a chance. It betters the 9mms ballistics and is lighter in recoil than the 45 acp. There is a reason the VAST majority of police departments use it.
As far as dead goes, I'd have to say the 45gap. May not technically be dead yet but definately on life support.
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Old January 30, 2013, 04:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
There is a reason the VAST majority of police departments use it.
And the reason that you cite is GLOCK...read the history of Glock, the .40 and law enforcement.

It was a business decision by Glock that gave the .40 a foothold in law enforcement and it's instant rise to stardom. Law enforcement agencies were disenchanted with the 9mm of the time and were searching for an option that Glock gave them(even before S&W got theirs to market) at a ridiculously cheap price. And for the public, being chambered in the Glock gave the .40 instant credibility as opposed to cartridges in the past having to earn their stripes. With that said, I do not own a .40, but I have no issue with it and it is a capable round.

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Old January 30, 2013, 05:29 PM   #11
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[QUOTE40 gone?!?! Not a chance. It betters the 9mms ballistics and is lighter in recoil than the 45 acp. ][/QUOTE]

Lighter recoil than my 45 1911. Idon't think so. I shot a couple 40 and the recoil was my main objection. I get bigger hole and less recoil from a 45. I would carry a 9mm or 45auto before a 40 any day of week
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Old January 30, 2013, 05:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
There is a reason the VAST majority of police departments use it.
Something i have being wondering about. The .40 is popular with police departments in America. But 9mm is used by most armies and police forces in the rest of the world wonder why that is. Maybe in America they know something the rest of the world doesn't.
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Old January 30, 2013, 06:13 PM   #13
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9mm Winchester Magnum.
9x23 Winchester.
480 Ruger.
357 Maximum.

Jim
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Old January 30, 2013, 06:33 PM   #14
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I suspect the problem with the .327 Ruger is simply that it is a "new" revolver cartridge in the age of semi-auto pistols. Even Ruger made only two revolvers for it and has discontinued the SP 101 .327. I suspect the .327 would be much more popular if revolvers had a 50% share of the new handgun market.
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Old January 30, 2013, 06:34 PM   #15
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Old January 30, 2013, 06:35 PM   #16
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I suspect the problem with the .327 Ruger is simply that it is a "new" revolver cartridge in the age of semi-auto pistols. Even Ruger made only two revolvers for it and has discontinued the SP 101 .327. I suspect the .327 would be much more popular if revolvers had a 50% share of the new handgun market.
There is also isn't much demand for .32caliber in anything.
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Old January 30, 2013, 06:44 PM   #17
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I did read in Wikipedia I believe, The FN 5x7 replaced the glock17 or 19 in the national forces of India...I'll take those Glocks, hehe. Not sure about other militaries adopting it though...
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Old January 30, 2013, 10:24 PM   #18
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A bunch of good examples, 41AE is a prime one. Come and gone could be judged by whats on the covers of the Gun mags on the shelves or other ways, nothing cast in stone here. Point is stuff like 32h&r were even offered in some very popular guns (Ruger Single Six) and still couldn't make it. Probably no fault of any of these rounds except maybe bad timing or lack of different guns offered for a particular caliber.
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Old January 30, 2013, 10:36 PM   #19
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The 480 Ruger was just put back in the catalogue by Ruger.
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Old January 31, 2013, 01:17 AM   #20
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...and it is .327 Federal, not Ruger, though it has been the biggest proponent among gun manufacturers - and apparently was instrumental and coordinated with Federal in the .327's creation. I think they call that co-developed? I'm sure I have missed a nuance or two characterizing the relationship.

Last edited by gak; January 31, 2013 at 01:28 AM.
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Old January 31, 2013, 04:36 AM   #21
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Ummm, yeah, .the .327 Federal Magnum has been chambered by Ruger in three distinctly different revolvers. Charter, Taurus, Freedom Arms, Bond Arms, USFA all have also chambered it.
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Old January 31, 2013, 05:50 AM   #22
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Most of the cartridges you don't hear much of any more were not designed with mass market or military/police use in mind.
These were designed to fill a niche, and because theres such an overlap in capability of the more common cartridges fewer and fewer found it necessary to go to a purpose designed cartridge to fill that niche.

The .40 is not that well suited to compact SMGs, and so long as those weapons have a place in the military/police armories the 9X19 will have a home.
Its low on the totem pole when it comes to effective stopping power with FMJ bullets, but it always has been compared to the .45 ACP, with penetration being its long suit.
Easier mastering of the 9mm pistol by the greatest number of potential users is another factor in its favor.
From what I've heard from a Scandinavian reservist veteran who trained in part with the .45 ACP during the cold war, they had a harder time hitting anything with the 1911 than with any of the available 9mm handguns. That seems to be the norm, with the 1911 being a specialists weapon of choice.
I expect the same would be the case with the .40 if it were a military issue weapon.

The 9mm and the .45 ACP both have four times the history of the .40, and both have seen far more cartridge designs fade from view in that century plus.
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Old January 31, 2013, 06:34 AM   #23
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What type of 9mm were they shooting? That could be a bigger contributor to there marksmanship than the caliber. Could have been a Sig 210 Combine that with some of the horror stories of how worn out allot of standard Gov issue 1911's were it would not be surprising that the 9 shot better than the 45.
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Old January 31, 2013, 07:22 AM   #24
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The veteran was a Dane. The Scandinavian countries lost almost all their military equipment to the Germans so post WW2 they had a mix of Allied and Axis weaponry. I doubt they could have afforded any Sigs at the time he served.
He did say the 1911 he was using at the range was a bit of a rattle trap. Most of the older 1911 pistols were refurbed more than once and worn out again by that time.
Reliable feed was more important than target accuracy. Many accurized 1911 pistols are not very reliable in field conditions.
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Old January 31, 2013, 01:18 PM   #25
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Hard to condem a particular caliber when shooting it in a "Rattle Trap"
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