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Old January 11, 2013, 05:03 PM   #1
Pond, James Pond
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Lead + Glock: truly a bad idea?

I found 150gr, yes 150gr 9mm luger bullets at the same price, per 1000 as my planned purchase of 124gr Fiocchis.

Great!! That would give me a Major, power factor in my competitions!!

But.... Yes, there is a but.
They are lead RN bullets. Probably commercial reloads.

The power factor aspect whets my appetite, the price is as good as any, but then I have all the warnings of lead in polygonally rifled barrels ringing in my ears.

On typical Level 1 and Level 2 courses (Comstock targets typically at 30-40ft, max), would my Glock's accuracy really suffer that much?

Should I just get FMJs, stick to the Minor power factor and leave it at that?
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Old January 11, 2013, 05:45 PM   #2
lee n. field
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Accuracy won't be the issue.

You hear different things about lead through Glocks.

I ended up getting an aftermarket barrel for mine, for peace of mind.
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Old January 11, 2013, 05:48 PM   #3
chris in va
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Here's the thing.

I had a G21 45acp for a while and shot my LRN through it with zero leading. As a matter of fact it was much cleaner than the other 45's I've used.

That being said the 9mm round is double the chamber pressure of 45, and leaves the barrel considerably faster. This is a recipe for leading in a poly barrel.

I'm not saying don't do it, but if you do be sure and brush out the barrel every couple mags worth.

On a side note the Glock rifling isn't a true poly design. It's a smoothbore barrel with a few 'speedbumps' thrown in. It's cross section would be a circle, unlike say...my Kahr that would look like a stopsign if cut in half.
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Old January 11, 2013, 07:24 PM   #4
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9mm lead is a poor choice unless you like a lot of cleaning. An aftermarket barrel, like Lone Wolf solves that issue
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Old January 11, 2013, 07:27 PM   #5
lee n. field
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Quote:
I found 150gr, yes 150gr 9mm luger bullets at the same price, per 1000 as my planned purchase of 124gr Fiocchis.

Great!! That would give me a Major, power factor in my competitions!!
BTW, you've got load data for those?
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Old January 11, 2013, 07:32 PM   #6
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I solved the lead bullets and glock problem. I sold the glock.
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Old January 11, 2013, 07:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Accuracy won't be the issue.
I have seen really poor accuracy using lead in a stock Glock barrel.

The same loads fired in a Lone Wolf were dead on.
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Old January 11, 2013, 08:16 PM   #8
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My friend bulged the barrel of his glock 17. The replacement barrel is rifled.
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Old January 11, 2013, 08:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
The replacement barrel is rifled.
All of them have rifling. Stock Glock barrels are Polygonal and aftermarkets are Button.
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Old January 11, 2013, 09:35 PM   #10
Mr Budha
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I just actually read about this is a book about Glock. They talk about several suits brought against Glock for just that reason and now I think Glock has it somewhere that you can only shoot FMJ through it. Basically, don't do it. The guy in the first suit suffered some injury to his hand.
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Old January 12, 2013, 04:01 AM   #11
Pond, James Pond
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Quote:
BTW, you've got load data for those?
If you mean chrono data, then no, I don't: all this is from the store website who cater for the local IPSC community.

They even stock a FN 195gr round in 7.62x39!!! Isn't that normally 123gr?! That is like a heavy .308 out of your AK/V58!! Again, a major power factor classed round.

Quote:
I solved the lead bullets and glock problem. I sold the glock.
Well, it isn't a problem, really.
FMJ is normally not in short supply: it is just that my preferred shop had just had a bulk purchaser who'd wiped out their Fiocchi stock and so, at the moment I am "sans 9mm", having shot off my last boxes at the range yesterday.
I'm getting respectable results in minor classification, despite only 6 match points under my belt. But my follow-ups are slow and so, despite a majotrity of "double-alphas", my scores suffer due to my times. A major classification would help in that respect.

Quote:
9mm lead is a poor choice unless you like a lot of cleaning. An aftermarket barrel, like Lone Wolf solves that issue
I clean my Glock regularly: after every range visit or match. That might mean 50 rounds or 300, but matches are about 80-90 rounds total. However, I don't see myself going to the Safety Zone after every round and furiously brushing the barrel free of fouling.

However, I would love a threaded Lone Wolf barrel. But that too is quite an expensive option and I've still not heard back from the distribution office as to who might sell them.
All the same, spending the same amount on lead ammo as I would on FMJ, and getting a L&G rifled replacement barrel costing as much if not more seems like a big commitment just to get a few more points...

Oh well...
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Old January 12, 2013, 04:57 AM   #12
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I can't tell you why, but cast bullets in 9mm stock GLOCK barrel is bad news. I always thought it was a hit against reloaders and their reloads. It is not. I woundn't.
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Old January 12, 2013, 06:52 AM   #13
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I've shot a bunch of lead through my Glock through the years without problems. My issue has been accuracy. Jacketed slugs are much more accurate with mine. I'm sure it is due to the polygonal rifling. One day I will add an aftermarket barrel.
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Old January 12, 2013, 07:56 AM   #14
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If in doubt, get a small quantity to try.

The link was to loaded ammo, and it is minor. Are you talking about buying loaded ammo or bullets then loading your own ammo? I would be curious what powder you would use for 150gr 9mm bullets to make major in a factory Glock barrel.

Is this IPSC? 9mm major means Open, right? I would worry more about running against Open guns than accuracy, especially if you want to improve classification.
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Old January 12, 2013, 10:36 AM   #15
Pond, James Pond
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Quote:
The link was to loaded ammo, and it is minor.
Ah... yes.... well.... um.

I could have sworn I saw major there somewhere. Clearly not. So there goes that idea.

Still would like the option of lead bullets one day, so I will hold out for that Lone Wolf dealer contract opening up!

In answer to your questions, I shoot in production and so I was surprised to see major in 9mm, as I'd always thought that to be .45, as a rule of thumb.

Clearly that is the case.
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Old January 12, 2013, 12:31 PM   #16
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Still would like the option of lead bullets one day, so I will hold out for that Lone Wolf dealer contract opening up!
Is it more of the "who'll ship to Estonia?" problem?

http://www.igbaustria.com/. This is an Austrian company that makes aftermarket Glock barrels. They might be easier for you to get.

(Not necessarily cheaper. My Lone Wolf barrel was around $100 US, if I remember correctly. These people's product looks like they would be about twice that.)
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Old January 12, 2013, 01:45 PM   #17
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Here is a video shooting hard cast in a stock Glock barrel and a lonewolf barrel.

Accuracy is a big issue here.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-m0satEkGjw
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Old January 12, 2013, 02:01 PM   #18
Pond, James Pond
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Thanks for both those links.

Lone Wolf: yes - who'll....
So far I don't have any contacts following an email to their distributor desk, but in any case, whatever the dollar price, the rule of thumb is double it before it reaches me, if it comes from outside the EU.

My Simply Rugged holster, after shipping and customs charges cost $170. The cost for the same, shipped within the States would have been $90. The only time I have saved money buying abroad was buying my reloading gear and sights in pounds sterling.

I just seem equally attracted to expensive hobbies and badly paid jobs...
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Old January 12, 2013, 02:07 PM   #19
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Accuracy can be a problem, but the real issue is the potential for increasing pressure due to leading that can get bad enough to blow the gun.

The Glock in Competition includes a very good writeup by Mark Passamaneck (a member here--MarkCO) who is a forensic engineer and who did extensive study on the issue of Glocks and lead bullets after having a catastrophic incident involving one of his Glocks and lead bullet loads.
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Old January 12, 2013, 03:04 PM   #20
Pond, James Pond
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I take it this risk then applies to all polygonally rifled pistols, then?

Curses!! That's the Jericho 941, the Steyr M1A, all Glocks....
That just about covers all the pistols I like!

I quite fancy P95s and CZs seem nice, mind you....
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Old January 12, 2013, 03:27 PM   #21
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During a Singleton cqb pistol course a G21 went boom and injured the user. He was shooting lead bullets. I don't know the final outcome but at the time it was assumed to be lead fouling built up to an obstruction in the barrel.
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Old January 12, 2013, 04:15 PM   #22
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Glock says don't shoot lead, so you looking for some "expert" to tell you its ok ?
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Old January 12, 2013, 09:38 PM   #23
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Glock says don't shoot lead, so you looking for some "expert" to tell you its ok ?
Glock and many other gun companies say "Not to use reloads". But many many of us do including competitive shooters safely. The are covering their rears from liability issues.

All of the newer handguns I own Ruger, Glock, Springfield and CZ all say not to use reloaded ammo.

Yes there are issues shooting lead in a Polygonal rifled barrel and those reasons alone should be enough not to use lead. Safety should be the #1 reason not to and accuracy should be #2.
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Old January 12, 2013, 09:46 PM   #24
lee n. field
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I take it this risk then applies to all polygonally rifled pistols, then?
I do not know. I've seen that asked about Bersas (current models use polygonal rifling), and Bersa just says "clean it before shooting jacketed".
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Old January 12, 2013, 10:02 PM   #25
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Just for fun, a hundred or so .45ACP200 grain H&G/68s and 7.? of new Unique were fired in a G36. I was playing around with the Pierce +1 extension. Other than being nasty and slinging brass into the next plot, all three played nice with one another.

Those loads were set up for my Nork range mule. They functioned in the 36 with no bulges.

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