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Old January 12, 2013, 12:11 PM   #1
Glenn E. Meyer
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Gun control threats damage police training

http://www.policeone.com/media-relat...ge-nationwide/

Here's the unintended consequence. Since ammo is vanishing due to increased civilian sales, police training has to be curtailed. Civilian demand has tried up supplies.

Given that we don't know if there will be bans and such threats will continue for the political season, this seems like a bad thing.
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Old January 12, 2013, 12:28 PM   #2
sigcurious
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Warning: The following contains humor and is not intended to be serious in any way...
They should just borrow from DHS, we all know they have more ammo than they could ever use!
Well at least it will make it harder for them to come take our guns if they have no ammo!


Seriously though, that is not a good thing. Hopefully distributors are at least considering keeping prices the same for what ammo they can make available to LEAs. From what I've gleaned, many departments do a marginal amount of range training due to costs as it is, I can't imagine how bad it would be if they're hit by a double whammy of dwindling supply and increased prices.

Last edited by sigcurious; January 12, 2013 at 07:24 PM. Reason: spelling oopsy!
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Old January 12, 2013, 07:23 PM   #3
berettaprofessor
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Quote:
I can't imagine how bad it would be if their hit by a double whammy of dwindling supply and increased prices.
I'd prefer that the civilian police have plenty of avaiable ammo for training purposes. They should know how to use their duty weapons effectively.

But I'd hate to see it get to the point where someone declares that any ammunition seized in an arrest can be treated like private property in a drug-raid....i.e. can be used or sold at the police's discretion. We don't need to provide an incentive to seize extra ammunition on suspicion.

"You've got how many rounds of 9mm stockpiled? That borders on mental instability! We're just going to cart some of that away while you appeal the action to a judge....."
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Old January 12, 2013, 07:26 PM   #4
Willie Sutton
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Given that we don't know if there will be bans and such threats will continue for the political season, this seems like a bad thing.


Really?

To me it seems like a case of "what's good for the goose is good for the gander".

Or, in other terms:

This is a good way for the police to get the message that they are outgunned, and a gentle reminder that they are the servants of the people.



Willie


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Old January 12, 2013, 07:36 PM   #5
sigcurious
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To me it seems like a case of "what's good for the goose is good for the gander".
On one hand, I can appreciate the sentiment behind your statement, on the other I live in a city where there are enough questionable police shootings with the training they can afford. I'd rather not see that amount of training go down.
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Old January 12, 2013, 08:23 PM   #6
Willie Sutton
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^^^ I am sure that under some rule (Union, PD, etc) there must be some minimum required training.

It would be poetic justice to have numbers of police disqualified from carrying due to inability to train....



<sigh>


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Old January 12, 2013, 08:29 PM   #7
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Old January 12, 2013, 09:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn E Meyer
Here's the unintended consequence. Since ammo is vanishing due to increased civilian sales, police training has to be curtailed. Civilian demand has tried up supplies.
Glenn and others...

I dont think its uninteded consequense, except fot the thoughts from the white house... I view it more as, darned if you do, and darned if you dont. I work for a small town that orders ammo every 2 years or so, and that ammo is suppossed to last us the next 2 years, both practice (yeah right, no ammo available to practice) and qualifying...Including pistol, rifle, and shotgun.

I dont see any way, atleast for smaller agencies that is, to not be caught in a rush at times... The budget is so small, and it lacks the ability to plan ahead a few years, "just in case" of an ammo rush that may or may not come up at some point in the near future.

Last edited by Fishing_Cabin; January 12, 2013 at 10:40 PM.
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Old January 12, 2013, 09:46 PM   #9
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Many of my civilian law enforcement friends practice on their own time on their own dime. They are true professionals and want to be sure as possible to come home after their shift.

I shoot every chance I get. I recently purchased an all metal blowback CO2 air pistol and shoot the heck out of it. Not perfect but a great way to get practice nearly every evening in my back yard.

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Old January 13, 2013, 09:37 AM   #10
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For several years APD trained with Airsoft. That facility was closed and dissipated 3 yrs back. It might be time to get it back. Most guys were pretty enthusiastic about the situational training. Airsoft guns shoot pretty straight for 10 yards or so.
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Old January 13, 2013, 10:02 AM   #11
Nathan
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Personally, I would be thrilled to see a reduction in available police. It is this new policeman on every corner and at every traffic light which makes some people feel secure allowing the government to coddle them and keep them fat, dumb and warm..and sorta secure.

There ought to be some effort to tell the "flock of idiots" that they have the main stake in their personal security.

For example, maybe these "mayors for gun control" could start by eliminating their armed security. That way they can lower themselves down to the level they expect us to live at and lead by example.
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Old January 13, 2013, 10:23 AM   #12
Tom Servo
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Personally, I would be thrilled to see a reduction in available police
Sure, until a situation comes around that you can't handle with available means, and you find out that response times have ballooned.
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Old January 13, 2013, 12:28 PM   #13
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Same thing happened in '06. The department in the city I was living in had to clean out Gander Mountain to find enough rifle ammo. They even bought the varmint rounds.

One of the silly things I see posted around the internet occasionally is that you should get a weapon in the same caliber as what the local police shoot. Then there is an implication that in times of a disaster the police will lend you some. Who believes such things? Never hear anyone talking about loaning some to the police.

Police and military rounds are the first to disappear and the last to stabilize in shortages.
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Old January 13, 2013, 07:50 PM   #14
Glenn E. Meyer
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Well, in the North Hollywood shootout, the officers went to the gun store but those guns were never used in the outcome.

The usual take on using the same as the local police is to make yourself look reasonable in court. Never heard of borrowing some from the law.
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Old January 13, 2013, 08:39 PM   #15
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Some county deputies were in a walmart here looking to buy range ammo on their own since the dept. was slap out of 'disposable" inventory and was told by their supplier not to hold their proverbial breath waiting for resupply under the current contract pricing... Any emergency purchases would be negotiated separately...

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Old January 14, 2013, 04:24 PM   #16
raisitup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigcurious
Warning: The following contains humor and is not intended to be serious in any way...
They should just borrow from DHS, we all know they have more ammo than they could ever use!
You mention this jokingly but nobody seems to have gotten to the bottom of the large purchase of ammunition DHS made. I'm not doing the tin foil hat thing and concluding the government put together Sandy Hook or anything of the sort, but I'm sure gun control was on Obama's second term agenda. Perhaps the plan was to stockpile ammunition then make the hard gun control push many were waiting for (lots of potential energy there), knowing ammunition/arms prices would go through the roof and the police would need somewhere to turn for their needs.

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Old January 14, 2013, 04:55 PM   #17
Skans
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Perhaps the police should learn to reload. Invest in some reloading equipment and supplies and they can make their own cartridges when they are sitting around doing nothing.
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Old January 14, 2013, 04:57 PM   #18
Alabama Shooter
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Quote:
Some county deputies were in a walmart here looking to buy range ammo
I guess that is out of the question now.
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Old January 14, 2013, 05:22 PM   #19
Dr Big Bird PhD
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You mention this jokingly but nobody seems to have gotten to the bottom of the large purchase of ammunition DHS made. I'm not doing the tin foil hat thing and concluding the government put together Sandy Hook or anything of the sort, but I'm sure gun control was on Obama's second term agenda. Perhaps the plan was to stockpile ammunition then make the hard gun control push many were waiting for (lots of potential energy there), knowing ammunition/arms prices would go through the roof and the police would need somewhere to turn for their needs.
One only has to look at Fast and Furious to see how far the federal government is capable of going for power.

There is no limit as far as I can see.
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Old January 14, 2013, 05:27 PM   #20
sigcurious
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nobody seems to have gotten to the bottom of the large purchase of ammunition DHS made.
Nobody except those who payed attention to the details. Important things about the DHS ammo purchase/contract:

1) It was a contract securing up to X amount of rounds over 5 years(1 year with 4 1 year options) for a fixed price, they did not take delivery of the millions of rounds all at once, nor might they even purchase that many rounds. All the contract guarantees is that they MAY purchase up to that amount at a previously arranged price.

2) DHS is a huge umbrella organization, some of the highlights of who's a part of the DHS family, Border Patrol, ICE, TSA, Secret Service and Coast Guard, among many others.

Conclusion...even if they had taken delivery of all the ammo, once you total up the tens of thousands of people that need to practice, qualify and have duty ammo for 5 years, it suddenly doesn't seem so odd.

Time for fun with numbers... Border Patrol(now known as Customs and Border Protection) alone has roughly 45,000 sworn agents, IIRC the total of the DHS ammo contracts was 1.2 billion rounds of various ammunition. 1.2 billion/ 5 years=240,000,000 rounds per year, 240,000,000 rounds/45,000 agents=5333.33 rounds/year/agent... So yes it is tinfoil hattery to suggest it was part of a grand master plan or scheme of gun control and ammunition sales.
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