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Old January 9, 2013, 01:58 AM   #1
rambutan316
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Need help in choosing first reloading cartridge

Until recently, I've only owned firearms chambered in 9mm (M&P) and .22 (Frontier Scout and Marlin XT-22). I've been looking at something a little more powerful, and am leaning towards either a lever action 357 carbine (probably a 1894c) or a M1 carbine. Since ammo for either gun will be costly, I'll probably try to learn reloading too.

Which ammo would be easier and/or more cost effective to reload? .357 magnum or .30 Carbine? I might also consider a .45 LC lever action like the Marlin Cowboy. 45 LC, I heard, is great for reloading, too.

Thanks for the help!
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Old January 9, 2013, 02:42 AM   #2
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Well you can't go wrong with the .357. Very easy to load for. No minimum power levels needed to cycle the action, few if any feeding problems in a lever gun, most every load you try will be accurate, and power levels that approach the 30-30. I have several .357's that I load for including a carbine.

.30 carbine should load easily as well, but your power levels, powder choices and bullet choices will be narrower than with the .357.

.45 Colt is a great cartridge, I have a single shot carbine in that caliber that I like a lot. All the same qualities as the .357, but bullets can get pricey. To save money I practice with 200 grain .45 auto bullets.

Last edited by Hammerhead; January 9, 2013 at 03:06 AM.
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Old January 9, 2013, 02:50 AM   #3
Lost Sheep
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Welcome to the forum and thanks for asking our advice.

rambutan316,

Welcome, and thanks. Welcome also to reloading.

Everything Hammerhead said is true and also applies to 45 Colt, too. So, depending on your shooting goals, either .357 or 45 Colt would be my choice. M1 Carbine is a gas-operated semi-auto, so cleanliness of loads is important and lead bullets are not such a good idea, so savings will not be as great as the revolver cartridges.

What are your goals?

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Old January 9, 2013, 02:52 AM   #4
Lost Sheep
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10 Advices for the Novice Loader

Anyone who can follow a recipe in the kitchen or change a tire can handload safely. It just takes care and a bit of humility. Handloading is not rocket science, but it does involve smoke and flame and things that go very fast, so care is to be taken.

I have thought of a few things I think are useful for handloaders to know or to consider which seem to be almost universal, so I put together this list of 10 advices.

So much is a matter of personal taste and circumstance, though. So, all advice carries this caveat, "your mileage may vary".

So you can better evaluate my words, here is the focus of my experience. I load for handguns (44 Mag, 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 9mm, 357 Mag, 480 Ruger) a couple hundred per sitting and go through 100 to 400 centerfire rounds per month. I don't cast....yet.

When I bought my first gun (.357 Magnum Dan Wesson revolver), I bought, at the same time, a reloading setup because I knew I could not afford to shoot if I did not reload my own ammo. It cost me about 1/4 of factory ammo per round and paid for itself pretty quickly. I did not use a loading bench at all. I just mounted my press on a 2 x 6 plank long enough to wedge into the drawer of an end table.

I still believe in a minimalist approach and and try to keep my inventory of tools low. I do not keep my loading gear set up when not in use, either, but pack them away in small toolboxes until the next loading session.

Now, here are my Ten Advices.

Advice #1 Use Reliable Reference Sources Wisely - Books, Videos, Web Sites, etc.

Study up in loading manuals until you understand the process well, before spending a lot of money on equipment.

I found "The ABC's of Reloading" to be a very good reference. Short on loading data but full of knowledge and understanding of the process. Check out offerings in your local library. Dated, perhaps but the basics are pretty unchanging. I am told the older editions are better than the newer ones, so the library is looking even better.

Read as many manuals as you can, for the discussion of the how-to steps found in their early chapters. The reason you want more than one or two manuals is that you want to read differing authors/editors writing styles and find ones that "speak" to you. What one manual covers thinly, another will cover well so give better coverage of the subject; one author or editor may cover parts of the subject more thoroughly than the others.

As far as load data in older manuals, the powder manufacturers and bullet manufacturers may have better information and their web sites are probably more up to date. But pay attention to what the ammunition was test-fired from. (regular firearm vs a sealed-breech pressure test barrel, for example)

The public library should have manuals you can read, then decide which ones you want to buy.

There are instructional videos now that did not exist in the '70s when I started.

Richard Lee's book "Modern Reloading" has a lot of food for thought, and does discuss the reasoning behind his opinions (unlike many manuals, and postings). Whether right or wrong, the issues merit thought, which that book initiates. It is not a simple book, though and you will find it provocative reading for many years.

Only after you know the steps can you look at the contents of of a dealer's shelves, a mail-order catalog or a reloading kit and know what equipment you want to buy. If you are considering a loading kit, you will be in a better position to know what parts you don't need and what parts the kits lack.

Advice #2 All equipment is good. But is it good FOR YOU?

Almost every manufacturer of loading equipment makes good stuff; if they didn't, they would lose reputation fast and disappear from the marketplace. Better equipment costs more generally. Cast aluminum is lighter and less expensive but not so abrasion resistant as cast iron. Cast iron lasts practically forever. Aluminum generally takes more cleaning and lubrication to last forever. Lee makes good equipment, but is generally considered the "economy" equipment maker, though some of their stuff is considered preferable to more expensive makes. Just think about what you buy. Ask around. Testimonials are nice. But if you think Ford/Chevy owners have brand loyalty, you have not met handloaders. Testimonials with reasoning behind them are better. RCBS equipment is almost all green, Dillon, blue, Lee red. Almost no manufacturers cross color lines and many handloaders simply identify themselves as "Blue" or whatever. Make your own choices.

On Kits: Almost every manufacturer makes a kit that contains everything you need to do reloading (except dies and the consumables). A kit is decent way to get started. Eventually most people wind up replacing most of the components of the kit as their personal taste develops, but you will have gotten started, at least.

On Kits: Almost every manufacturer (and most major retailer) assembles a kit that contains everything you need to do reloading (except dies and the consumables). A kit is a decent way to get started without too much prior experience. Eventually most reloaders wind up replacing many of the components of the kit as their personal taste develops (negating the savings you thought the kit gave you), but you will have gotten started, at least.

On building your own kit: The thought processes you give to assembling your own kit increases your knowledge about reloading. You may get started a couple weeks later than if you started with a kit, but you will be far ahead in knowledge.

Advice #3 While Learning, don't get fancy Progressive or Single Stage? Experimental loads? Pushing performance envelopes?

While you are learning, load mid-range at first so overpressures are not concerns. Just concentrate on getting the mechanical steps of loading right and being VERY VERY consistent (charge weight, crimp strength, bullet seating depth, primer seating force, all that). Use a "fluffy" powder that is, one that will overflow your cartridge case if you mistakenly put two powder charges in it.

Learn on a single stage press or a turret press, or if on a progressive, only once cartridge at a time. While you can learn on a progressive press, in my opinion too many things happen at the same time, thus are hard to keep track of (unless you load singly at first). Mistakes DO happen and you want to watch for them ONE AT A TIME. Until handloading becomes second nature to you.

Note: A turret press is essentially a single stage press with a moveable head which can mount several dies at the same time. What makes it like a single stage rather than a progressive is that you are still using only one die at a time, not three or four dies simultaneously at each stroke.

On the Turret vs Single stage the decision is simpler. You can do everything on a Turret EXACTLY the same way as you do on a single stage (just leave the turret stationary). That is, a Turret IS a single stage if you don't rotate the head.

Learning on a progressive can be done successfully, but it is easier to learn to walk in shoes than on roller skates.

Also, a good, strong, single stage press is in the stable of almost every reloader I know, no matter how many progressives they have. They always keep at least one.

Advice #4 Find a mentor.

There is no substitute for someone watching you load a few cartridges and critiquing your technigue BEFORE you develop bad habits or make a dangerous mistake. (A mistake that might not have consequences right away, but maybe only after you have escaped trouble a hundred times until one day you get bit, for instance having case lube on your fingers when you handle primers; 99 times, no problem because primers are coated with a sealant, but the hundredth primer may not be perfectly sealed and now winds up "dead")

I started loading with the guy who sold me my press watching over my shoulder as I loaded my first 6 rounds to make sure I did not blow myself up, load a powderless cartridge or set off a primer in the press. I could have learned more, faster with a longer mentoring period, but I learned a lot in those first 6 rounds, as he explained each step. I educated myself after that. But now, on the internet, I have learned a WHOLE LOT MORE. But in-person is still the best.

After you have been mentored, mentor someone else. Not necessarily in loading or the shooting sports, but in SOMETHING in which you are enthusiastic and qualified. Just give back to the community.

Advice #5 Design your loading space for safety, efficiency, cleanliness

When I started reloading, I did not use a loading bench at all. I just mounted the press on a 2" x 6" plank long enough to wedge into the drawer of an end table My loading gear all fit in a footlocker and spread out on the coffeetable and the lid of the footlocker. Good leverage meant the table did not lift or rock. I still use the same plank, but now it is mounted in a Black & Decker folding workbench. A loading bench "bolted to the center of the earth" (as some describe their setups) would be more stable, but I do not feel deprived without it.

You will probably spill powder or drop a primer eventually, so consider what you have for a floor covering when you pick your reloading room/workspace. I would not try to vacuum up spilt gunpowder unless using a Rainbow vacuum which uses water as the filter medium. A dropcloth is practically infallible. Use cloth, not plastic. Less static, quieter and has less tendency to let dropped primers roll away.

Advice #6 Keep Current on loading technology

Always use a CURRENT loading manual. Powder chemistry has changed over the years. They make some powders differently than they used to and even some powder names may have changed. However, if you are using 10 year old powder, you may want to check a 10 year old manual for the recipe. Then double check with a modern manual and then triple check with the powder maker.

Read previous threads on reloading, here are a couple I read.
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13543
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/view...fbd5ae1f754eec
The second one is a thread started by a new recruit to reloading which the moderators thought highly enough of to make it "sticky" so it stays on the top of the list of threads.

Advice #7 You never regret buying the best (but once)

When you buy the very best, it hurts only once, in the wallet. When you buy too cheaply it hurts every time you use the gear. The trick is to buy good enough (on the scale between high quality and low price) to keep you happy without overpaying. "The delicious flavor of low price fades fast. The wretched aftertaste of poor quality lingers long.

Advice #8 Tungsten Carbide dies (or Titanium Nitride)

T-C dies instead of regular tool steel (which require lubrication for sizing your brass) for your straight-walled cartridge cases. T-C dies do not require lubrication, which will save you time. Carbide expander button for your bottlenecked cases. Keeps lube out of the inside of the cases.

Advice #9 Safety Always Safety All Ways.

Wear eye protection, especially when seating primers. Gloves are good, too, especially if using the Lee "Hammer" Tools. Children (unless they are good helpers, not just playing around) are at risk and are a risk. Pets, too unless they have been vetted (no, not that kind of vetting). Any distractions that might induce you to forget charging a case (no charge or a double charge, equally disturbing). Imagine everything that CAN go wrong. Then imagine everything that you CAN'T imagine. I could go on, but it's your eyes, your fingers, your house, your children (present of future - lead is a hazard, too. Wash after loading and don't eat at your bench). Enough said?

Advice #10 Verify for yourself everything you learn. Believe only half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for everything you find on the internet (with the possible exception of the actual web sites of the bullet and powder manufacturers). This advice applies to my message as much as anything else and especially to personal load recipes. Hare-brained reloaders might have dangerous habits and even an honest typographical error could be deadly. I heard about a powder manufacturer's web site that dropped a decimal point once. It was fixed REAL FAST, but mistakes happen. I work in accounting and frequently hit "7" instead of "4" because the are next to each other on the keypad.

Good luck.

Lost Sheep
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Old January 9, 2013, 07:22 AM   #5
kimbers rule
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They are both about as easy as it gets as far as reloading. If you choose the 45 colt I suggest looking into trail boss as a powder to start with because you cant double charge it.
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Old January 9, 2013, 07:29 AM   #6
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if I were you and I wanted to get started right away I would go for something that uses a large primer. Large primers are still available with a bit of searching, small primers are for the most part unavailable at the moment and probably will not be for several more months 45ACP pistol and .308 rifle are good choices.
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Old January 9, 2013, 02:01 PM   #7
oldpapps
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"Which ammo would be easier and/or more cost effective to reload? .357 magnum or .30 Carbine? I might also consider a .45 LC lever action"

First, 'Lost Sheep' 's entry is excellent. Very good Sir.

Now to the posed question.

.357 or .30 carb - easiest? Minimal difference in the two. What you will be feeding does make a difference. Most .357s are revolvers, levers, single shots but very few auto loaders. Most .30 carbs are auto loaders. [I did have a Ruger SA revolver in .30 carb. It didn't last long and got traded for something better.]
Both must be loaded to safe pressures - same.
.357s can be much shorter and just as long as the cylinder of a revolver. But, in levers, needs to be at a length that feeds well.
.30 carbs have almost a set length with very little leeway.
The process is the same with very few tweaks, here and there.

Cost efficiency. Tools and DIEs, the same or so close as to be the same. OK, .30 carbs don't get carbide sizing, they are tapered cases. Not that I can see it, but it is measurable. So, .357 carbide sizing DIEs are a little more cash.
Primers - Cost wise about the same. Small pistol and small rifle.
Brass - .357 (.38 Spec) brass is very common and the price reflect that. .30 carb is not so common and will run a little more.
Powder - Differing powders and charges but I will jump in with an 'all but the same' on this.
Bullets - The big separating point.
.30 carb gets junk 110/111 grain full patch stuff or expensive specialty jacketed stuff. And some lead round nose bullets. That's about the extent for the .30 carb. (Yes, some of these bullets will do a very good job, some don't.)
.357 get all of the same bullets available as the .38 Special and .357 Mag and all of those 'super mag' rounds as well as just about every description of cast and swaged bullets made. Weights from 88 grains to 260 grains can be had. Not that I see a great deal us use for some of them.

"easier and/or more cost effective" Ease is a toss up. Cost slips toward the .357. Function is the .357 all the way.

With today's frenzy in the market. I would be more interested in just what I could find/get.
As you have eluded to Lever Actions. I find them also to be very appealing. With that thought, I wouldn't limit my quest to 'only' a .357. I would also look at all of the straight walled pistol rounds as well as the (more) common conventional rifle chamberings. The over all costs to reload are not significant (when using case bullets) and availability of both weapons and components may be a factor.

Always error on the side of safety.
Enjoy,

OSOK
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Old January 9, 2013, 02:27 PM   #8
MikeyTantalo
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Both pretty easy.. The pistol cartridge in your .357 will require 1 step more than the rifle cartridge.. but both very easy.. Once calibrated, smooth as butter.. I too am new into reloading and it seems to be getting easier by the load!
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Old January 9, 2013, 03:07 PM   #9
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oldpapps nailed it with the major difference between the two rounds being the bullet selection. With just this part considered all by itself, .357 Magnum is the easy winner.

In fact, there are a couple bits NOT yet mentioned that also tip this even further in the favor of the ,357 Magnum.

As mentioned, the .30 Carbine is a tapered case. Actually, they do sell carbide dies for .30 Carbine. It may even be currently that they ONLY offer carbide dies. Even with them, you must absolutely use case lube to size the .30 Carbine cases. You will get a case stuck in your die if you fail to use lube. Also, the physical effort to resize the brass is much more so on the .30 Carbine brass. The difference is pretty large, actually.

Even more, .30 Carbine is very sensitive to case length. Too long an they don't chamber properly. Trim them too short and they will fail to fire and cannot be fixed--they become fodder for the recycle bin.

The bottom line...it's not that .30 Carbine is the world's biggest PITA to handload, it's more along the lines that .357 Magnum is one of the world's most pleasant to handload and it makes the .30 Carbine look like a royal PITA in comparison.

If all that weren't enough... most .357 Magnum chambered guns can also run .38 Special. In a lever gun, there may be feeding issues, but generally speaking, most folks run a LOT of .38 Special in anything they own chambered for .357 Magnum.

This race is not close, .357 Magnum is BY FAR the better choice.
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Old January 12, 2013, 12:39 PM   #10
rambutan316
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Thanks for the tips, everyone! It looks like I'll start out with reloading 357. I might also try reloading 45 Colts in the future, too.
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Old January 13, 2013, 12:36 AM   #11
Lost Sheep
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You know you will

Quote:
Originally Posted by rambutan316
Thanks for the tips, everyone! It looks like I'll start out with reloading 357. I might also try reloading 45 Colts in the future, too.
Then you might as well order the dies for the 45 Colt. Combine the shipping costs.

What kind of quantities will you be loading? If more than a couple hundred a month, a turret might be a good choice. See Kempf's Gun Shop kit built around the Lee Classic Turret. There is no better 4-station auto-advancing turret built today. (In fact there is only one other, the somewhat inferior Lee Deluxe Turret).

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Old January 13, 2013, 08:40 AM   #12
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yes kempf's has a ton of lee product and also has a decent supply of cast bullets . surprised to hear that even people in alaska know about kemps they are a semi local store for me (22 miles)
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Old January 13, 2013, 02:08 PM   #13
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I own a .30 Carbine. I also load for .357 Mag/.38 special.

If I were doing the buying I would get the .357 Mag for a few reasons.


1 Less expensive for ammo, that is easier to find. (.30 carbine is not something on the shelf of any store that sells ammo.)

2 Easier to load for, with a larger margin for error. (Most loads for .30 Carbine have a spread of 1 grain from start to max.)

3 with carbide dies you do not have to lube .357 mag/.38spcl cases. You have to lube .30 carbine even with carbide dies. When you lube cases. Afterwards you have to remove the lube before firing them. If not dangerous pressures on the breech face result.


Note I load for both. I love my .30 carbine. I hate trying to find brass for it, and hunting down the brass it slings out. I tend to find about 8 of every 10 fired. The other two seem to evaporate into the air.
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Old January 13, 2013, 02:21 PM   #14
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The only problem at the moment is getting primers. If you have SP primers on hand, no problem. Several powders work well in .357 mag. Starline is running a month or two behind in .357 mag cases right now but they are making them. I received my last order on Friday. Bullets are available on line. If you can't get primers then 45 Colt might be the way to go. Large primers are still pretty easy to find. Bullets will be more expensive because they are heavier. Both are easy to load and fun to shoot.
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