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Old January 10, 2013, 12:01 PM   #1
SC4006
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Thinking about concealed carry, but have concerns

With all of the stuff that's been going on, I've been thinking about getting a concealed carry permit. I would be carrying my S&W 4006, it's a little heavy but seeing as it's my only pistol as of now it will have to do. I have some questions before I decide to carry though. My first being, how can I concealed carry as discretely as possible? There seems to be a lot of paranoia about guns these days, and the last thing I want to do is draw attention to the fact that I have one. My second question is, I doubt it will ever happen, but if I actually have to use my pistol, how would I be able to aim accurately? Most likely I'd have an adrenaline rush which would probably make my aim a little shaky, and the last thing I'd want to do is miss and possibly hurt someone else. My last question for now is what if there is someone with body armor? It seems like a lot of shootings involve a suspect with body armor, what would .40 S&W do against body armor? I know this post is a little long, but they are very real concerns of mine, so I appreciate anyone who takes the time to read this and respond.
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Old January 10, 2013, 12:37 PM   #2
mete
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Dress around the gun !
Get GOOD TRAINING !! any cost would be an investment well worth it !!
PRACTICE !
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Old January 10, 2013, 12:42 PM   #3
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^^^This^^^

And practice head shots.
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Old January 10, 2013, 12:50 PM   #4
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Training of course.

Just like in close calls when driving, you act first THEN have your adrenaline breakdown because you act based on training.

(At least that's how I hope it happens. I've had close calls when driving over 40 years but haven't yet had to draw a firearm.)
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Old January 10, 2013, 12:51 PM   #5
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I'll repeat what Mete said...

If that's the only gun you have, you'll have to make due. Get a good GUN belt (not a flimsy belt from a department store), and a good IWB (Inside the Waistband) holster. In most cases, with that, a T-Shirt, or any kind of loose (untucked) shirt will conceal the gun very well.

Get training. Take a CCW course. Take a Defensive handgun course. Compete in IPSC or IDPA practical matches.

In addition, I recommend the Gun Digest Book on Concealed Carry by Massad Ayoob. It's a very informative book, and it should have answers to 90% of the questions you might have. You can get it on Amazon, and there is an eBook version of it.
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Old January 10, 2013, 01:19 PM   #6
Mello2u
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Quote:
SC4006


Thinking about concealed carry, but have concerns
My first being, how can I concealed carry as discretely as possible?
There are many considerations which can impact your selection of how to carry concealed. You may choose more than one method to fit how you have to dress for a particular situation. Casual-wear may allow a different carry than office-wear. Additionally, females have different anatomical features which must be addressed for comfort and utility when carry concealed on the body as compared to males.
You have to research your options and decide for yourself. I have carried a full size 1911 for about 30 years in an Inside The Waistband (IWB) holster. This works for me.

Quote:
My second question is, I doubt it will ever happen, but if I actually have to use my pistol, how would I be able to aim accurately?
As others have posted . . . training; and practice. You tend to do what you practice, so getting good training which teaches you the proper self-defense techniques (which should include the legal issues) is valuable.

Quote:
My last question for now is what if there is someone with body armor? It seems like a lot of shootings involve a suspect with body armor, what would .40 S&W do against body armor?
This has been addressed with the Mozambique Drill or the Failure to Stop Drill. Basically, it is two shots to center of mass (COM), assess; and if the threat is still there a shot to the brain/head. To assess you take your focus from your front sight, finger off the trigger, focus on the target to determine whether the threat remains a threat (you might see two hits COM that did not solve the problem); if the threat remains you move your target from COM to the brain area, move your focus to the front sight which now aims at the brain area and get a surprise break (of the trigger) to deliver a bullet to stop the threat. You need to determine how long you take to make these shots.

As to body armor, if I remember correctly Class II-A and stronger body armor is supposed to stop all .40 S&W bullets.
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Old January 10, 2013, 01:19 PM   #7
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC4006
...My second question is, I doubt it will ever happen, but if I actually have to use my pistol, how would I be able to aim accurately? Most likely I'd have an adrenaline rush which would probably make my aim a little shaky, and the last thing I'd want to do is miss and possibly hurt someone else...
You need training.

In my view, basic competency for carrying a gun for self defense involves:
  • You will want to know and understand the legal issues -- when the use of lethal force would be legally justified, when it would not be, and how to tell the difference. You will want to understand how to handle the legal aftermath of a violent encounter and how to articulate why, in a particular situation, you decided to take whatever action you did.

  • You will want to know about levels of alertness and mental preparedness to take action. You will want to understand how to assess situations and make difficult decisions quickly under stress. You will want to know about the various stress induced physiological and psychological effects that you might face during and after a violent encounter.

  • You will want to develop good practical proficiency with your gun. That includes practical marksmanship, i. e., being able to deploy your gun and get good hits quickly at various distances. It also includes skills such as moving and shooting, use of cover and concealment, reloading quickly, clearing malfunctions, and moving safely with a loaded gun.
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Old January 10, 2013, 01:48 PM   #8
SC4006
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thanks for all the replies I've already gotten, they all help. Taking some sort of course regarding concealed carry sounds good to me, i'll definitely try and sign up for one before I get a permit. As for practicing, I've been using my 4006 a little more lately, and have noticed that my accuracy with it has been steadily increasing.
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Old January 10, 2013, 02:45 PM   #9
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It seems like a lot of shootings involve a suspect with body armor,
I think it's actually pretty rare. Some of the recent incidents had erroneous reports of shooters wearing body armor when, in fact, they were wearing tactical vests (no armor).
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Old January 10, 2013, 02:58 PM   #10
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Agreed, don't do anything until you get some professional training.

On a side note, a 40S&W is a bit much for a first handgun. Snappy recoil will make it tough to overcome a flinch for a new shooter.if there's any way to trade for a 9mm, I would do so.
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Old January 10, 2013, 04:03 PM   #11
SC4006
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Quote:
a 40S&W is a bit much for a first handgun.
It may be my first handgun but i've shot my dad's old S&W model 18 .22LR handgun quite extensively before I even thought about getting a handgun. I like your idea about a 9mm, I originally wanted a sig p226 in fact, but my 4006 has some sentimental value because my brother gave it to me as a gift for quite the reduced price.
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Old January 10, 2013, 05:34 PM   #12
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As others have noted, training, practice, and dress around the gun. An honest-to-goodness gun belt and quality holster go a long way towards making the act of carrying comfortable and concealable.

On your first couple of outings, you'll expect someone to yell "OHMYGODHESGOTAGUN!" at any minute. It won't happen. Pretty soon, you'll come to realize that you could carry anything up to and including the size of a moped under your coat, and nobody is likely to notice. In this day and age, folks have all kinds of cell phones, ipods, ipaids, mp3 players, etc. hanging from their belts, so nobody notices one extra lump. My lumps just happen to be a semiauto and an extra magazine, rather than an electronic gizmo.
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Old January 10, 2013, 05:47 PM   #13
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When you’re new to CC, you feel like there’s a big sign over your head that says “GUN!!” The feeling will pass.

I wear cargo shorts all the time and wear a sleeveless T-shirt with an unbuttoned sports shirt over the gun. I started off with Hawaiian shirts because I thought the pattern would make the 1911 or Glock 17 I wore in OWB holsters less noticeable. That was a waste of time. No one’s looking for guns. No one’s going to notice any bulges under your clothes. The truth is, unless you’re a supermodel or on fire, you might as well be invisible. No one’s going to look at you at all.

These days, I wear a lot of open monochrome shirts over a 19-round XDm 9mm with a C-More STS red dot sight. I use the plastic paddle holster that came with the gun. It’s a pretty big package on my 143 lb frame, but no one ever notices.

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Old January 11, 2013, 01:17 PM   #14
SC4006
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Well again, thanks for all of the advice guys. Much appreciated.
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Old January 11, 2013, 01:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
My first being, how can I concealed carry as discretely as possible?
Get a smaller gun, a good belt and holster, and dress around the gun.

Unless you want to wear really baggy clothes, a heavy, duty sized gun is not going to hide very well.

...and if you want a hi-cap gun, you'd better get after it, before thay are not available to private Citizens.
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Old January 11, 2013, 05:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SXC4006
My first being, how can I concealed carry as discretely as possible? There seems to be a lot of paranoia about guns these days, and the last thing I want to do is draw attention to the fact that I have one.
Isn't New Hampshire an open carry state? At least you don't have to worry about "printing." That said, generally when you start carrying you have to adjust your wardrobe. If you carry IWB you need larger trousers. I don't like IWB, so I carry in a belt scabbard holster, which then needs a cover garment. In summer, wearing a tucked in tee shirt and then leaving a sport shirt untucked and unbuttoned seems to work fine. In cool and cold weather, I wear either a sport jacket or a vest of some sort. I have a bunch of vests, none of them of a type that screams "TACTICAL!" -- and if anyone asks I just tell them I carry a lot of stuff so I need pockets. (Which happens to be the truth.)

Quote:
My second question is, I doubt it will ever happen, but if I actually have to use my pistol, how would I be able to aim accurately? Most likely I'd have an adrenaline rush which would probably make my aim a little shaky, and the last thing I'd want to do is miss and possibly hurt someone else.
You do plan to practice, right? Something like 95 percent of self defense shooting take place within 15 feet, and a pretty high percentage are closer than that. This isn't bullseye competition -- you just need to be able to hit center of mass at a distance of 10 to 15 feet.


Quote:
My last question for now is what if there is someone with body armor? It seems like a lot of shootings involve a suspect with body armor, what would .40 S&W do against body armor?
This is why many trainers suggest practicing the "Mozambique" -- two shots to center-of-mass followed by one shot to the head -- then reassess and, if necessary, repeat. A .40 S&W will not penetrate personal body armor, but it will get the wearer's attention.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; January 11, 2013 at 11:33 PM. Reason: Multiple typos
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Old January 11, 2013, 11:16 PM   #17
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My second question is, I doubt it will ever happen, but if I actually have to use my pistol, how would I be able to aim accurately? Most likely I'd have an adrenaline rush which would probably make my aim a little shaky, and the last thing I'd want to do is miss and possibly hurt someone else.
This is how I heard it:

"In the event you NEED your gun, you will not rise to the occasion, but will sink to the level of your training. Train accordingly."

You need to practice your presentation (draw and aim/draw and point, as the situation dictates) enough that it becomes a reflex-so you can do it without thinking..... the muscles just do the right thing out of sheer habit. I Carry a 1911 style pistol, and sweeping the safety off is so ingrained that when using a revolver at a bowling pin match, my thumb flicks the non-existant safety as i bring the gun up from the table ...... I "know" there's no safety there, but my thumb does not seem to care.....
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Old January 12, 2013, 12:31 AM   #18
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'Dress around the gun' is good advice, above. A warm jacket or sport coat for cool weather, a suit jacket for warmer weather. Cargo pants with big pockets works, too. You're not going to be able to run around in T-shirt and shorts.
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Old January 12, 2013, 01:20 AM   #19
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Quote:
how can I concealed carry as discretely as possible?
practice at home. You should be comfortable sitting in various chairs/car, bending, kneeling, hugging family, reaching up high... everything you would do already as a habit, but without printing the firearm. Sometimes you have to be aware you could print or expose the firearm and adjust your habits accordingly as much as it is dressing around the gun.

here is a good article on CCW technique: https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/ccm...s-big-trouble/
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Old January 12, 2013, 10:33 AM   #20
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Not a big fan of paddles. Aside from the extra bulk, they can have a nasty tendency of coming off the belt with the gun, during the draw. The better ones will have a very aggressive hook under the belt, or a slot the belt threads through, but some are not that well made.
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Old January 12, 2013, 10:38 AM   #21
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jimbob86, really baggy is subjective. I have no trouble concealing a 1911 IWB, with either a shirt or sweatshirt loose over the gun (and a t-shirt between myself and the gun), or under a jacket.

I typically go for chamois shirts in colder weather, and hiking/fishing shirts in warmer weather.

If it gets really hot, t-shirt weather, then one of my smaller guns may come into play.
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Old January 12, 2013, 11:04 AM   #22
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jimbob86, really baggy is subjective. I have no trouble concealing a 1911 IWB, with either a shirt or sweatshirt loose over the gun (and a t-shirt between myself and the gun), or under a jacket.
Having been in the Army much of my formative years, I had it ingrained in me that T-shirts are tucked in .... that's how I dress around the gun as well. I did have to get larger pants and longer shirts ...... and summer time I usually have to lose the cover garment and untuck the t-shirt (though if I'm going to be out in the sun, I'll keep a long sleeve work shirt on to keep from getting burned .....

One thing about the 5" 1911 IWB- though it is large and heavy, it is very flat, and the grip is generally smaller than most double stacks ..... even for a large gun, it carries better than many guns that are much lighter and smaller, because it is thinner.

When I first started Carrying (5" steel framed 1911a1 in .45ACP), many people with more experience told me I'd eventually get a smaller gun ..... I told them stuff like "It's supposed to be comforting, not comfortable." ..... As soon as I could afford it, I got a smaller 1911 in a caliber that was more comfortable to Carry and cheaper to feed for practice (and now I reload 9mm).
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Old January 12, 2013, 11:15 AM   #23
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I really don't mind the weight. Then again, I have good gear (and assume you do, too, jimbob86).

A 1.5" Andrews Leather gunbelt distributes well and minimizes flex. My new one is tiger shark leather, so it is extra rigid and virtually indestructible.

For the OP, flimsy belts sag, and let the gun flop around. This is uncomfortable, and is bad for concealment. A good carry rig (belt, holster, mag pouch if applicable) is a very good investment.
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Old January 12, 2013, 11:27 AM   #24
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On your first couple of outings, you'll expect someone to yell "OHMYGODHESGOTAGUN!" at any minute. It won't happen. Pretty soon, you'll come to realize that you could carry anything up to and including the size of a moped under your coat, and nobody is likely to notice.
In the early days of Nebraska's CCW law, local ordinances prohibiting concealed weapons were not pre-empted by the new state law permitting it..... but Nebraska is an Open Carry state, with protections for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms explicitly spelled out in the State Constitution ..... so when ever I had to venture into the local towns that prohibited CCW, I just moved the gun around to 10 o'clock crossdraw...... I found that 9 in 10 people I met were comletely oblivious, and did not even see that big black cocked and locked 1911 right up front in my belt........ and of those that did, most did not ask about it. If they did, it was either "Are you some kind of police officer?" or "Is that a real gun?", to which I'd either answer "No" or "Yes", and explain why I had the gun in the open ...... in less than a year, both town's CCW ordinances were changed to allow licensed CCW, and state preemtion followed shortly thereafter ....... though it took further legislation and threats of lawsuits to get Omaha to comply with State Law.
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Old January 12, 2013, 11:44 AM   #25
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I really don't mind the weight. Then again, I have good gear (and assume you do, too, jimbob86).
I did not, at first, but fixed that ..... the primary reason I went to the smaller gun was economic- the Great Ammo Shortage of 2008-2009 doubled the price of .451 bullets ........ and I figured if I was going to go 9mm anyway, there was no reason not to get a smaller, lighter gun, particularly when with modern self defense ammo, energy on target and penetration were similar.

I also found that with nearly 3 1/2 pounds of gun and ammo on me, I was decidedly negatively buoyant in water ...... but that's another story for another day......
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