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Old January 3, 2013, 10:24 AM   #1
Constantine
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Staying concealed while being very physically active

Hello all...I just want to see what new methods I can maybe pick up from various other people on the net. Ideas entirely new, ideas to incorporate into others to form my own. etc.

First off, I only carry full sized guns. Smallest I have is a Glock 19 and I mainly carry the following in no order. Glock 17 & 21 and SIG P226 & P220 at 4:00 IWB. When I'm running, bending down, moving, picking up something, etc. I cannot print. I can't begin to stress how much I cannot be printing.

No small guns. They serve me no purpose, unfortunately.

So what do you guys think I should do? New carry position? New holster included? A massive shirt doesn't help much and is like a musical curtain to lift up when drawing.

I'm in Miami, so it is hot. It would look out of place with a sweater on.



On the regular, I've always carried full sized and never had a problem in regular, average activities in public.

But for this, it's entirely different.



Any ideas?
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Old January 3, 2013, 10:50 AM   #2
loose_holster_dan
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no go bro.

something's gotta give. either you need to go with a tiny gun, or you're going to have some printing.
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Old January 3, 2013, 11:04 AM   #3
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Damn...I had a feeling that was the case. Still hope someone has an alternative. I don't want a small gun.
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Old January 3, 2013, 11:05 AM   #4
pete2
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I carry a 642 or LC9 and it's a pain under some conditions. No way I could do a full size gun unless they start allowing open carry.
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Old January 3, 2013, 12:00 PM   #5
southjk
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Belly band or fanny pack.
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Old January 3, 2013, 12:03 PM   #6
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What is a smal gun?

I have a Sprinfield XDs which is a SMALL gun, but has a really big hole on one end. I feel very confident carrying this for its intended purpose. I would not envision a need to engae someone at 30 + yards, so this will work very fine for me.
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Old January 3, 2013, 12:28 PM   #7
Constantine
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Belly band or fanny pack.
Hmmm...tell me more about this.. "belly band" ?
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Old January 3, 2013, 12:35 PM   #8
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Thunderwear
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Old January 3, 2013, 12:37 PM   #9
loose_holster_dan
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it doesn't matter. you're still printing with a big gun. i used to use one while running, but i only had a pf9. i tried carrying the p-07. even that was way too big not to print heavily.

http://www.pistolwear.com/
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Old January 3, 2013, 12:39 PM   #10
loose_holster_dan
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unless you want to wear dress shorts while you exercise...

http://www.ccwbreakaways.com/shorts/

these aren't considered legal holsters in most states where a holster is required.
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Old January 3, 2013, 12:40 PM   #11
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I too was going to suggest a belly band. Fanny pack would work too, but they're dorky, and basically scream, "GUN!" to anyone else who carries.

Is there a reason a small gun serves you no purpose? I am an advocate of carry the biggest gun you can conceal, but at times, that means a small gun. There are plenty of small guns in good defensive calibers, that are pretty easy to carry. Just a small list:

J-Frame Revolver
Ruger LCR
Ruger LC9
XDS
Glock 26/27/30/36/etc
Kel-Tecs (many)
Kahr's (many)

...and the list goes on and on. All on that list are at least 9mm/.38 SPL, and a few are even bigger, .357 Mag, .40, .45, etc.

As far as what a Bellyband is, just do a Google search for Belly Band Holster. There are a bunch of companies that make them. I don't have one right now, but have used in the past. They work pretty well. Since I plan to start jogging again soon, I think I'm going to pick one up again since it'll be the easiest way to conceal something while running, I think. Massad Ayoob talks about them in several of his books. Their biggest drawback is they are difficult to reholster. But beyond that, they're very concealable, very confortable (relatively speaking, anyway) and usually relatively cheap ($20-$30 range).

EDIT: By the way, what you're asking for is the holy grail of CCW. A full-size gun and holster combo that can be worn with basically any type of clothing, with any type of activity, without printing. If you can figure out a way to do that, you'll be a rich man. If not, *something* has to give.
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Old January 3, 2013, 12:45 PM   #12
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The ONLY method I've found works for me in active situations (concerts mostly..complete with "mosh pits") is pocket carry of a small gun.

My p-64 slips into my pocket and thats all she wrote...unless someone literally feels me up there's no way to tell I'm carrying.
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Old January 3, 2013, 12:58 PM   #13
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I am going to go out on a limb and assume you have difficulty shooting small guns, either due to hand size or lack of practice.

If so, you can get larger grips for many small guns (I have Altamont grips with little finger rest on my 442) that will still conceal well, and/or dry fire (with snap caps) is your friend.

Can most of us shoot small guns as well as big guns? No. If nothing else, they will be slower for follow up shots. But some small guns are better than others. In my personal collection, the 442 and MK9 are easy to hide, yet still shoot well; the PPS may be the best compromise between deep concealability and shootability; and the P7 conceals pretty easily yet shoots amazingly well.

I use a Mika pocket holster for the 442, a belly-band or IWB for the MK9, a Soteria Leather IWB for the PPS, or an Andrews Leather MacDaniel IWB for the P7.

For your activities, given my guns, I would go with the MK9. If its weight were a problem (though that weight is a big advantage in recoil control) I would consider a PM9 or CM9. Then again, you might find a PPS comfortable in a belly band - I do not. But if I did, that would be the choice - it is much easier to shoot than the other small 9s, and easier to deep conceal than the P7.
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Old January 3, 2013, 01:47 PM   #14
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clothing items, constraints....

You seem to have a lot of constraints to put on members for selecting a holster(s). You may find a good system here; www.kramerleather.com www.glockstore.com www.usgalco.com . Lenny Magill sells a few items that could conceal a Glock 19 size pistol. 5.11 & a few other brands now have active wear garments too.
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Old January 3, 2013, 03:18 PM   #15
Constantine
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Quote:
MrBorland Thunderwear
Not bad at all..I may just try this out. Not even kidding.

Quote:
loose_holster_dan it doesn't matter. you're still printing with a big gun. i used to use one while running, but i only had a pf9. i tried carrying the p-07. even that was way too big not to print heavily.

http://www.pistolwear.com/
When I have gone running, it's a Glock 19 @ 1:00 and though I'm not a fan of appendix carry it's fine by me given the situation.

Quote:
loose_holster_dan unless you want to wear dress shorts while you exercise...

http://www.ccwbreakaways.com/shorts/

these aren't considered legal holsters in most states where a holster is required.
Ah...thanks, I'm not big on shorts. Unless I'm going to the beach. I'm already covered there too. lol



Quote:
Gaerek I too was going to suggest a belly band. Fanny pack would work too, but they're dorky, and basically scream, "GUN!" to anyone else who carries.
Yeah, won't catch me dead and cold in a fanny pack. lol

Quote:
Is there a reason a small gun serves you no purpose? I am an advocate of carry the biggest gun you can conceal, but at times, that means a small gun. There are plenty of small guns in good defensive calibers, that are pretty easy to carry.
Yeah, I agree with that. Which is why I mainly carry full sized. But for this..I might have to consider an alternative... I have huge hands and don't like anything smaller than 9mm. But I prefer .45 if I can pack one.
Not to mention, I don't shoot them as well as I do a full sized gun. I only see them as BUG's.

Quote:
Just a small list:

J-Frame Revolver
Ruger LCR
Ruger LC9
XDS
Glock 26/27/30/36/etc
Kel-Tecs (many)
Kahr's (many)
Don't like most of those. Tried them...I can accept the Glock 26 & 30 though. Also, I'd like to try the XDs. Good call on that...Especially the XDs

Quote:
...and the list goes on and on. All on that list are at least 9mm/.38 SPL, and a few are even bigger, .357 Mag, .40, .45, etc.
9mm & .45 make me happy

Quote:
As far as what a Bellyband is, just do a Google search for Belly Band Holster. There are a bunch of companies that make them. I don't have one right now, but have used in the past. They work pretty well. Since I plan to start jogging again soon, I think I'm going to pick one up again since it'll be the easiest way to conceal something while running, I think. Massad Ayoob talks about them in several of his books. Their biggest drawback is they are difficult to reholster. But beyond that, they're very concealable, very confortable (relatively speaking, anyway) and usually relatively cheap ($20-$30 range).
True, true, true...Sounds good. Maybe if I obtain an XDs...But this is difficult because I can't do anything not full sized. :/ won't be easy but I'll try it out.

Quote:
EDIT: By the way, what you're asking for is the holy grail of CCW. A full-size gun and holster combo that can be worn with basically any type of clothing, with any type of activity, without printing. If you can figure out a way to do that, you'll be a rich man. If not, *something* has to give.
Your comment could have done without this part. lol but yeah...I know.

Quote:
RedBowTies88 The ONLY method I've found works for me in active situations (concerts mostly..complete with "mosh pits") is pocket carry of a small gun.

My p-64 slips into my pocket and thats all she wrote...unless someone literally feels me up there's no way to tell I'm carrying.
Thanks..I don't like pocket carry. I'm having a hard time mentally preparing for a possible small gun. lol


MLeake
Quote:
I am going to go out on a limb and assume you have difficulty shooting small guns, either due to hand size or lack of practice.
Don't like them. My hands..etc....

Quote:
If so, you can get larger grips for many small guns (I have Altamont grips with little finger rest on my 442) that will still conceal well, and/or dry fire (with snap caps) is your friend.
I don't know about that..I'll see how they feel at the LGS. lol yes, I own plenty of those little red duds.

Quote:
Can most of us shoot small guns as well as big guns? No. If nothing else, they will be slower for follow up shots. But some small guns are better than others. In my personal collection, the 442 and MK9 are easy to hide, yet still shoot well; the PPS may be the best compromise between deep concealability and shootability; and the P7 conceals pretty easily yet shoots amazingly well.
That first line says it all for me.

Quote:
I use a Mika pocket holster for the 442, a belly-band or IWB for the MK9, a Soteria Leather IWB for the PPS, or an Andrews Leather MacDaniel IWB for the P7.
I'm curious of this bell band thing. Pic?

Quote:
For your activities, given my guns, I would go with the MK9. If its weight were a problem (though that weight is a big advantage in recoil control) I would consider a PM9 or CM9. Then again, you might find a PPS comfortable in a belly band - I do not. But if I did, that would be the choice - it is much easier to shoot than the other small 9s, and easier to deep conceal than the P7.
I tried the CW9 and PM9 I didn't like either of them at all.

I'd much rather try the bell band with my P220 or at least the G19.

Maybe even consider a commander style 1911 with an alloy frame.


Quote:
ClydeFrog You seem to have a lot of constraints to put on members for selecting a holster(s). You may find a good system here; www.kramerleather.com www.glockstore.com www.usgalco.com . Lenny Magill sells a few items that could conceal a Glock 19 size pistol. 5.11 & a few other brands now have active wear garments too.
Clyde
I know, I appreciate everyone who has responded. I'm a bit of a PITA when it comes to my full sized guns.

I'll check out those sites after I hit "Sumbit Reply" here.

5.11 might have some good pants..But I don't know about my smallest G19 fitting anywhere in there. I saw one once with a pocket that was knee high.
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Old January 3, 2013, 03:23 PM   #16
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I played a little softball last week with my J-frame 637 in a pocket holster in my cargo shorts (top pocket). I wouldn't like to slide on that side with the gun there, but other than that I didn't really notice it much at all.
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Old January 3, 2013, 03:28 PM   #17
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spacecoast I played a little softball last week with my J-frame 637 in a pocket holster in my cargo shorts (top pocket). I wouldn't like to slide on that side with the gun there, but other than that I didn't really notice it much at all.
lol that's funny..dangerously funny. Be careful now.

I had a Model 642. Couldn't warm up to it.
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Old January 3, 2013, 03:38 PM   #18
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I guess one question is how fast do you need to draw or is more just to have a gun with you. Check out Thunderwear. I have used this product and really like it. One draw back is trying to get it out of the way to well...drain the snake.

I carry sig 229 in thunderwear w/ no printing.
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Old January 3, 2013, 03:51 PM   #19
Constantine
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Quote:
colbad I guess one question is how fast do you need to draw or is more just to have a gun with you. Check out Thunderwear. I have used this product and really like it. One draw back is trying to get it out of the way to well...drain the snake.

I carry sig 229 in thunderwear w/ no printing.

Depends on the situation. But if it's worst case scenario and I need to draw fast, I want to be able to deploy as fast as necessary.

Draining the snake sounds like a pain with that thing in the way. This thing can easily be on for 12 hours +

I'm seeing a tighter and tighter tunnel on what I have to stick to...
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Old January 3, 2013, 04:38 PM   #20
Constantine
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Just stuck this in my pocket. Wasn't bad at all....
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Old January 3, 2013, 05:05 PM   #21
Gaerek
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Just going to reply to your replies to me.

Quote:
Yeah, I agree with that. Which is why I mainly carry full sized. But for this..I might have to consider an alternative... I have huge hands and don't like anything smaller than 9mm. But I prefer .45 if I can pack one.
Not to mention, I don't shoot them as well as I do a full sized gun. I only see them as BUG's.
I'm with you. I have huge hands also. I carry a G19 Gen 4 as my EDC, and even with the largest grip panels on, the grip still seems a tad small. My pinky can barely get on the grip, and many times I find it resting on the bottom of the magazine. It took a lot of practice to get used to firing this gun. I much preferred the G17, or even better G21. But I compromised to the G19 because I knew I'd have issues concealing the 17 or 21.

I don't know exactly what you are going to be doing that will require you to have a lot of physical movement, etc. But, a BUG gun is better than no gun. I carry an LCR as a BUG, but I've carried it several times as a primary (for various reasons, that aren't relevant). Even with my huge hands, I actually really like this gun. I can get two fingers solidly on the grip, with my pinky curled under the grip. The Hogue Tamer grip it comes with is very large. It's smaller than I'd like, but then again, this is a purpose bought "compromise" gun.

No one shoots a small gun as well as a large one. That is a given. But ask yourself, how much worse of a shot are you? At 15 yards, my 5 shot groups with my LCR are more or less an inch bigger than my G19. At 5 yards, you can't really tell a difference. If I have to engage at 15 yards, I'm not worried about that inch. Everyone is different, but I can only go off of my own experiences.

Quote:
Don't like most of those. Tried them...I can accept the Glock 26 & 30 though. Also, I'd like to try the XDs. Good call on that...Especially the XDs
I've never shot an XDs, but I've held a few. The grips are actually pretty small on them. I much prefer the fat Hogues on my LCR. Again, preference is preference, and YMMV.

Quote:
True, true, true...Sounds good. Maybe if I obtain an XDs...But this is difficult because I can't do anything not full sized. :/ won't be easy but I'll try it out.
Practice! I was terrible with my G19 when I first got it, and I am usually a pretty good shot. I just forced myself to get used to it. Same with my LCR. Now those are the only two guns I own that I carry. With them, I can carry concealed in almost any situation, and I wouldn't feel outgunned.

What do you mean exactly that you can't do anything not full sized? Do you mean that you go from 3 inches at 15 yards to 12 inches at 15 yards? Or something else? I know a lot of people that feel a difference of a half inch at 15 yards is just too much. But in a defensive situation, that half inch means nothing. I guess I just want to know where your standard is here.

Quote:
Your comment could have done without this part. lol but yeah...I know.
Sorry, wasn't trying to be mean or snarky or anything. Just wanted to push the point that there was going to have to be a compromise somewhere. Maybe you've done this, maybe you haven't, but here's something you can try.

List everything that is important to you in this gun/holster that you want to use in the situation you're talking about. Then prioritize. Put a 1 next to the attribute that is most important, a 2 next to the next important and so on. This can really help you narrow down what you need to get. If not printing is the #1 priority, then you've basically knocked all larger framed guns off as a possibility. If having a large framed gun is #1 priority, then you will have to compromise on concealability. I wish there was a perfect solution, but reading what you're writing, I think you see there isn't and something is going to have to give.
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Old January 4, 2013, 04:08 PM   #22
johnwilliamson062
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Some of the larger Kahrs might work well. The smallest series probably not, but they have 3-4 different sizes. If I wanted to carry a full size gun my T9 would be just about the easiest of those i have handled.

There are the conversions of Glock compacts and full size to use the sub-compact slides and barrels. Always thought they were interesting and my fit your bill if you want a full size grip with a short barrel. The barrel length is never a concealment problem for me though.

Would be interesting if Kahr made a full size grip with a short barrel as slim as they are.

Of course, I think Beretta already has a few guns with grips that seem large for the barrel length. Not sure on their exact dimensions, only basing that comment on memory of their appearance.

The only good way to conceal while active for me is a fanny pack. I used a runners pack with a little water bottle for a while. It had better support than most fanny packs so the gun didn't bounce as much and didn't look quite as dorky. Of course, I was using it while running.
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Old January 4, 2013, 04:46 PM   #23
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http://www.gunblast.com/Kangaroo.htm

http://www.gunblast.com/Badger.htm

These may suit your needs....
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Old January 4, 2013, 04:50 PM   #24
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IMO when you're talking about carry guns generally you can look at the following 3 categories and pick any two:
  • Larger caliber/more powerful cartridge
  • Easier/more comfortable to shoot
  • Conceals well

If you absolutely cannot print, then you need a gun that can disappear. By definition, you're talking about a pocket gun like the LCP, (maybe) LC9, or similar size. If you can't accept a small gun, then you're going to have to accept some risk of printing. One of life's little trade-offs.
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Old January 4, 2013, 05:05 PM   #25
Onward Allusion
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Quote:
Constantine
Staying concealed while being very physically active
It's all about give and take...mostly. Bellybands are slow to get to and hot in a warm climate. Thunderwear in a hot climate is...um...gross. Fanny packs are a dead giveaway.

You may want to take a look at the following (each has + & -)
- Ruger SR9c
- Ruger LC9
- Kel Tec PF9
- Kel Tec P11
- Glock 26

If you are a larger guy, the LC9, PF9, & P11 can easily be back pocket carried in a DeSantis holster. Zero printing and fast draw, but it depends on the depth of your back pocket. It also gives you a slight diversional advantage.

The SR9c is probably one of the thinest full-size capable pistols out there. It might be good for 5 or 7 O'clock carry IWB.
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