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Old January 6, 2013, 05:34 PM   #26
spanishjames
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Sen Leiberman made a point that the NRA focused on guns rather than the violent acts of the person who caused them.
In my view, the NRA should encourage changes in the mental health & procurement(buying/obtaining) weapons by unstable people.
The NRA had to focus on the guns because the media immediately focused on the guns used. Within hours we heard about the SIG and Glock handguns used. The call by politicians and the gun-grabbers for a renewed AWB was instantaneous. While the NRA could "encourage changes in the mental health & procurement(buying/obtaining) weapons by unstable people", the truth is they are neither responsible for, nor experts in the field of mental health.

Regarding the Washington Post article, and today's US media in general, I'm troubled by the consistent and relentless demonizing of the NRA. The purpose of course is the weakening and eventual destruction of the organization. The gun-grabbers want to paint the NRA as a faceless entity, made up entirely of greedy war machine manufacturers, and members of the klan. They never mention that the NRA is made up of millions of individual law-abiding gun owners of all types.

After reading the article, and reading the media tea leaves, so to speak, it's become clear to me that the way we'll lose our rights is by being divided. The Big Box gun sellers (Dick's, Gander Mountain, BPS, Walmart) already do background checks on every buyer, and will get more sales if private sales are banned. Hunters don't care about 30 round magazines. The gun show sellers will cave to background checks to stay in business. The mental health professionals blame the access to guns. Religious leaders blame the guns and poverty. Hollywood and the Video Game industry say it's freedom of speech and fantasy. Teachers and mothers don't want guns anywhere near a school.

I realize I'm generalizing a lot in the above statement. But that's how the Govenment will play this to gain support for new legislation. After all, "Gun Control Support Soars In New Polls" http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...#slide=1898438
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Old January 6, 2013, 06:22 PM   #27
Ken - Oh
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When I bought my pistol, I had to fill out paperwork with very specific info about myself and the pistol, and then had to wait 7 days before it was mine. I don't see why everybody shouldn't go through the same regardless of where they buy one (ccw permit holders notwithstanding). It's easy to just save that background check and firearm data instead of discarding it within 24 hours.
Just because YOUR state has such assinine rules, why should everyone be stuck with it?

When I buy a gun at the local FFL, I inspect the gun, hand him my driver's license, fill out the 4473 and he has the approval almost immediately and walk out with the firearm. Why should we endure more than that????

The NICS check should not be saved because it is against federal law to do so.
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Old January 6, 2013, 06:30 PM   #28
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Disturbing News on the "Gun Control" Front
Absolutely--We have to unite together in both a cohesive and coherent manner and face the fight head-on. We will debate it out and see where the chips land in the end. However, if you aren't already somehow ACTIVELY involved in the cause, please join, re-up, recruit or contribute to Pro 2A Groups as there has never been a more important time in our Great Nation's history for the LAWFUL Gun Owners of America.
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Old January 6, 2013, 06:59 PM   #29
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By the way, for those of you in the "it can't happen here camp" go back and do some research on why and how Utah was founded.
The history of the Mormon church (whether you like them or not) is a pattern for how it is possible to persecute a minority in a clearly unconstitutional way.
Politicians looked the other way rather than defend their rights at every opportunity because it was the way to get re-elected.
The press was against them so no one heard their side of the story. Starting to sound familiar?
Polygamy was a big issue for the church. Ever stop and think for a second how it was that there were few enough men that some men had wives in the double digits? Where did all the other men and boys go? The mobs and hardship had killed them by the hundreds.
The Mormons were disarmed, (that always happened first) attacked by mobs, then driven westward from several states, normally right after they had turned wilderness into productive farmland.
The Missouri governor had issued what is referred to as "The Extermination order" ordering them "exterminated or driven from the state if necessary for the public peace" An Executive order,Hmm, now where does that ring a bell from? Keep in mind it wasn't repealed until the 1970's.

The Mormon settlers learned so well from this that they did the same to a group of settlers from Missouri, It was called the mountain meadows massacre and sure enough they disamed them before despicably slaughtering them. Gosh, there really seems to be a pattern emerging here, doesn't there?
This isn't Russia, China, Turkey or any other exotic land. This is here folks and It's real.
Not ancient history either, look up the dates.
Did the fact that it was unconstitutional bring a single man, woman, or child back from the dead?
Would a determination, years later, from the SCOTUS that their treatment was not within the rule of law have put a single drop of blood back inside the children that the mobs killed while saying" kill 'em, nits grow up to be lice".

The next time someone ignorant talks about how much deadlier arms are now, take some time to read up on "the hauns mill massacre" and throw it in their face with extreme contempt.
Folks we are going to have to win this battle now before we become the persecuted minority that everyone just wants to go away because they know we are being treated unfairly.
By the way, yes I know Mormon history was more complex than this, and that there are two sides to every story. These stories were picked to be illustrative of a point.
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Old January 6, 2013, 07:06 PM   #30
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For the it can't happen here crowd also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General...rant.27s_Order

Read the order and see how it was applied to the men and the families after Grant issued the order.

Now, I doubt that a genocide was planned but the historians of genocide indicate that in general they start with explusion. You can even find the Nazis speaking of that. But as the historians point out when expulsion doesn't work - you may move to killlng.
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Old January 6, 2013, 07:12 PM   #31
datasmith
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The US gun owners or 2A supporters shouldn't be aggressive or be confrontational with gun control advocates but they should push for improvements in the mental health issues & prevention of unstable people buying firearms. That is the more realistic & prudent direction IMO.
You are crazy if you think any politician or gun contol advocate is going to pay a bit of attention to that. Gun control advocates aren't interested in mental health issues and politicians will always go for the low hanging fruit...Which means that us law abiding gun owners are already under attack. No one is talking mental health and everyone is talking gun control. IMO we have no other choice BUT to be aggressive, if not confrontational, right now and right up front.
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Old January 6, 2013, 07:16 PM   #32
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^^^^ What he said. "Gun control" is not about guns, it's about control.
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"The more law-abiding people that have guns, the better off we are," Hamilton County [Cincinnati] Prosecutor Joe Deters said. "Because the bad guys always have guns, You look at these school shootings or church shootings, the ones that have been stopped, it was because someone there had a gun."
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Old January 6, 2013, 07:25 PM   #33
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When I bought my pistol, I had to fill out paperwork with very specific info about myself and the pistol, and then had to wait 7 days before it was mine. I don't see why everybody shouldn't go through the same regardless of where they buy one (ccw permit holders notwithstanding). It's easy to just save that background check and firearm data instead of discarding it within 24 hours.
Which part of the 2A suggest the government has a right to approve our purchases? NICS when all is said and done is a denial mechanism that can and has stopped lawful citizens from purchasing weapons... I do not know who the burden falls upon in an appeal but none of our other rights are regulated in such a manner so why is it acceptable that the 2A is?

I get it we are never going to get to enjoy the 2A as intended, but that doesn't mean we have to buy into the stuff we have been told is the way it should be...
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Old January 6, 2013, 07:48 PM   #34
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Clyde frog,
Obviously you did not watch the last debate where Obama stated he wanted an AWB. I think what Lapiere said was right on. Libs want to pass laws that feel good. But obviously they never let the facts get in the way. I totally disagree with you, we have to be vigilant when it comes to the second amendment. Do you think for one minute the Libs are going to be any less vigilant when they try to take you rights away?
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Old January 6, 2013, 08:16 PM   #35
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"If you've never been to Canada I suggest you visit. Their gun laws will be ours in 20 years.
They will if we let them. Nothing is inevitable unless we let it be.
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Old January 6, 2013, 09:08 PM   #36
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"Hunters don't care about 30 round magazines."

Oh nonsense. Just because someone is a hunter doesn't automatically mean they don't own an AR, AK or whatever. Like pistols with 20-round mags.

Do you over generalize much? Well stop it.
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Old January 6, 2013, 09:15 PM   #37
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tdawg
When I bought my pistol, I had to fill out paperwork with very specific info about myself and the pistol, and then had to wait 7 days before it was mine. I don't see why everybody shouldn't go through the same regardless of where they buy one (ccw permit holders notwithstanding). It's easy to just save that background check and firearm data instead of discarding it within 24 hours.
That's firearms registration, my friend. Also, that may be the process in your State but it isn't the law of the land and definitely should not be. That is the first step to confiscation. You are S.O.L in your great State of Washington if they ever outright ban w/o grandfathering any type of "assault weapons" or specific types of firearm and you happen to have them in your possession. You will either turn it in or they will come for you.
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Old January 6, 2013, 09:41 PM   #38
vito
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I will be emailing both my U.S. Senators tonight, as well as my Representative and stating that regardless of their other positions, if they support radical gun control legislation I will shift my support and donations to anyone who pledges to protect my 2nd Amendment rights. (I suggest using email rather than snail mail since all regular mail is extensively screened in Washington, ever since the anthrax incidents following 9/11, so that it can take months for a letter to reach the office of the legislator and by that time, the issue has come and gone.)
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Old January 6, 2013, 10:50 PM   #39
spanishjames
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Oh nonsense. Just because someone is a hunter doesn't automatically mean they don't own an AR, AK or whatever. Like pistols with 20-round mags.
Tell your representatives that. They love to throw around the "No one needs a 30 round clip to hunt." and "If a hunter needs to shoot a deer 30 times, he shouldn't be hunting."

I'm just pointing out how they'll divide and conquer us. Some don't shoot ARs, so will not contact their representative about an AWB. Others never buy their ammo online, so a law requiring a face to face purchase doesn't bother them. Plenty of gun owners own only one gun, and couldn't care less about a "one gun a month" restriction. Little by little the State will chip away at the RTKBA because specific legislation doesn't apply to every gun owner.
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Old January 7, 2013, 12:11 AM   #40
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Let's not get complacient and think that the AWB folks are all brainless. They are masters of politics,
True they are not brainless... but when I was 16 my cousin and I pulled scam on them that we still chuckle about.

At that time I did not have much money to donate (at 16 I had zero money) to political causes, and I supported the NRA 100%, but I wanted to do more. There was an outfit called "handgun control incorporated", and we just hated these clowns. We sent away for an information packet just to see what kind of crap they were saying. On seeing the multi-page glossy brochures and heavy-weight paper poster they sent us, my Dad pointed out that they probably spent $5 on that (this was 1983).

That gave us an idea. We wrote back to handgun control incorporated and told them we wanted to put up a lot of posters at our school and hand out flyers... could they please send us some more. A few weeks later we got a box that weighed 40 lb, and we chucked into a dumpster... Hundreds, maybe thousands of pamphlets and posters. We then wrote them and asked for another box of brochures so we could canvass a different school.... Another 40 lb box showed up.... into the dumpster. They caught on after that, and did not send us anything more. I am sure they contacted the school and discovered there were no students handing out their pamphlets. But at the time we sure were satisfied with ourselves.... I didn't have any spare change for the NRA, but by God I could cause the Gun Control morons to waste hundreds of dollars.

Any way, sorry to go off topic.
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Old January 7, 2013, 03:44 AM   #41
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Carl Rowan; double standards....

I recall a event many years ago where a gun-control loving, anti-2A newspaper writer in the metro Washington DC area; Carl Rowan(check spelling) was exposed as a fraud when he used a HANDGUN to scare away a prowler next to his backyard pool. Rowan was exposed as a 2 faced jerk. He claimed the handgun was given to him by his son(a former FBI Special Agent) for protection.

I'm not sure of her name but I also read a item of gun control group exec who got a lot of bad PR because she got her son a AR rifle as a gift.

I watched a older YouTube video of a anti-gun rally where a state senator from CA spoke. In the clip's description the member wrote that the CA elected offical's young daughter was arrested & facing trial for armed robbery.

I'm sure there are a lot more examples out there.

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Old January 7, 2013, 05:57 AM   #42
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Feinstein and her CCW is basically a legendary hypocrisy
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Old January 7, 2013, 09:53 AM   #43
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I'm just pointing out how they'll divide and conquer us.
No, you just showed that you can be tricked into BEING divided and conquered. As the above poster stated, lots of us hunters are much more concerned with the 2A issues than you think.

You WERE generalizing, and that doesn't work with this topic.

It's that kind of thinking that got us terms like "assault weapon".
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Old January 7, 2013, 01:01 PM   #44
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I agree that we have to be forever vigilant and stand together to prevent further gun control.

Several earlier pointed out they would accept mandatory NICS for every firearm transaction. Their feeling being that the govt is indeed destroying all those records 24 hours after the transaction because "it is against federal law" for them to keep them. Sorry but I don't share their belief that the govt always follows all of the laws it passes.

Personally, I have no use for a 30 round mag nor any of the AR style rifles nor a tacticool shotgun. However, I will defend to the death your right to own them.

As to proposed legislation, take a little heart as the Dems are NOT 100% anti-gun. One of the reasons Harry Reid was re-elected was the support of the NRA. Now, that really ticked me off when they did it, but now I do understand it.
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Old January 7, 2013, 01:24 PM   #45
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Regarding the Washington Post article, and today's US media in general, I'm troubled by the consistent and relentless demonizing of the NRA. The purpose of course is the weakening and eventual destruction of the organization.
OTOH I'd argue that another big factor is that scapegoating the NRA helps to mask their own shortcomings, notably their inability to organize a viable, coherent, and credible counter-organization.
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Old January 7, 2013, 01:49 PM   #46
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The demonization of us in the press has a deeper, more sinister, goal folks.
Let's go back to that Mormon History lesson.
People all the way up to the President were notified of the uncostitutional persecution going on, they were unwilling to fight for them because they were so unpopular.
There were good, decent, kind people all around them who sympathised with them. These people supported them initially then faded because they too were targeted and demonized. Once again, starting to sound familiar? Eventually they stopped fighting and just wanted things to go back to safe and normal, so they looked the other way. We need to fight against this right now! before any support is intimidated away.
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Old January 7, 2013, 02:24 PM   #47
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gun sales records/ATF/toll roads....

I'm a bit leery of a govt based record of firearm sales or a claim that any records would be destroyed in 24hrs.

To me, it's like the govt(local-state-federal) saying they won't use toll road or highway camera records in criminal court cases/criminal investigations.
I've seen media events where they HAVE used these pictures or documents to ID someone.
In the UK, they are more strict about destroying traffic camera records & they can't admit them in criminal court actions.

CF
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Old January 7, 2013, 03:24 PM   #48
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Carl Rowan actually shot that pool-invader. With an illegal handgun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Rowan

Yeah, a hypocrite. The trial was ruled a mistrial and there wasn't a second one. The District Attorney chose not to, I guess. The double standard lives on for our elite class....

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Old January 7, 2013, 07:17 PM   #49
spanishjames
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Quote:
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I'm just pointing out how they'll divide and conquer us.
No, you just showed that you can be tricked into BEING divided and conquered. As the above poster stated, lots of us hunters are much more concerned with the 2A issues than you think.

You WERE generalizing, and that doesn't work with this topic.

It's that kind of thinking that got us terms like "assault weapon".
Yes, I get it. Lots of hunters are very concerned with 2A issues. But not all hunters have contacted their representatives. Not all hunters will. Not all casual shooters will either. I have friends in IL who have their FOID cards, DO NOT own a gun, know nothing about IGOLD, the McDonald vs Chicago ruling, the ISRA, or the recent ruling about Illiinois' ban on concealed carry.

I'm positive three out of the four people I'm thinking of had no idea Illinois legislators were trying to pass anti-gun bills in this lame duck session (IL HB815 and HB1263) Some gun owners (again, not those on TFL, home of Gun Enthusiasts) think all guns are register to the owner.

The only way our rights can be trampled upon, is if enough lies are said, enough times, to the right ill-informed people. I stand with all law-abiding gun owners and support the Constitution of the USA. And I can see through the gun grabbers' lies.
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Old January 7, 2013, 07:23 PM   #50
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But not all hunters have contacted their representatives. Not all hunters will. Not all casual shooters will either.
And do you think a majority of "tactical" shooters, or the partisan chest-beaters at the gun show have?

I deal with a huge cross-section of the gun culture, and I can tell you we're lucky if 5% of gun owners can even name their representative, much less even vote. Of that 5%, you'd be surprised how many are "Fudds" or hunters.
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