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Old January 5, 2013, 02:49 PM   #1
Joe_Pike
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Please, Do Not Support Gun Shops That Give Gun Owners A Bad Name

I live in SW Missouri and like to visit several gun shops on my day off. I don't buy much anymore, but I sure do have a lot of fun looking. Not a lot to look at these days but I still go. Today was no different.

I ended up at a shop that generally has the one of the best selections and the prices are pretty decent. I almost bought a S&W model 17-2 from them last week for $599 but I couldn't go through with it do to their attitude, which I have been increasingly more uncomfortable with. Not because they have jacked the prices of a lot of their guns way up as I don't have an issue with that. It's a free market and if people will pay those prices then that's fine. It's something more sinister.

First, the folks that work there are incredibly racist. I see racism here and there but to have a business and it's employees, including the owner, flaunt racism really bothers me.

Second, they are very disrespectful of women and think it's a hoot to joke about it. Heck, I've had my share of bad experiences with the fairer sex, but I am still respectful of women.

Today though, was the final straw. I will not be going back. Some of the guys that work there were talking about one of the female anti-gun activists. They were having a conversation that centered around the fact that "someone should rape her". REALLY? That's what you're going with? How do they think this makes them look to new folks that just may have happened to stop into their store for the first time? It makes them and everyone else that owns guns look like the fanatics the anti-gunners say they are. They would say they were joking, but that's unacceptable to me. I don't agree with the anti-gunners either but saying stuff like this doesn't do anyone any good. The worst part is the owner is generally right in the mix with the horrible things that are being said. Thankfully, I've never heard anything like what these guys spew come from any other shop around here. I just can't tell you how disappointed I am with this.
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Last edited by Joe_Pike; January 5, 2013 at 04:14 PM.
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Old January 5, 2013, 03:42 PM   #2
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I agree with you.

Do you recall Andrew Brightbart's undercover video in the ACORN office?

Suppose the anti gunners find such a shop,make "inside the gunshop" vid,and get it on network news,or before Congress.

So,if I were a firearms manufacturer,like Ruger or Glock or S+W,or Colt,would I want my product line smeared by a shop like that?

No.That shop might find they cannot get anything from the distributors anymore.

Beyond not shopping there anymore,contact these guys:

http://nssf.org/Industry/

Maybe they would be interested.
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Old January 5, 2013, 04:28 PM   #3
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There's always that segment of any group who is their own worst enemy. There are some gun shops I just don't frequent because they are run by jerks. There's others where I'll pay a bit more, but they are polite to all and take care of their customers.

Right now some folks are focusing on charging what they see as unreasonable prices, but I tend to think of rude or outright toxic personalities working at gun shops to be an even bigger obstacle. They're the walking stereotype of gun owners, and they're why many are afraid of setting foot in gun shops.
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Old January 5, 2013, 07:46 PM   #4
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Quote:
Suppose the anti gunners find such a shop,make "inside the gunshop" vid,and get it on network news,or before Congress.
I seem to recall 60 Minutes did something like that during one of the previous anti-gun hysterias.

IIRC (and this was a while ago and I might NOT be remembering correctly) after shooting on the range they were talking to someone that had been firing a handgun and they got a quote that they said showed shooters were okay with violence against women.

60 Minutes and Gannett...are there any other groups that have a more hypocritical view of the 1st and 2nd amendments?
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Old January 5, 2013, 10:42 PM   #5
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I agree, but I don't think this is a gunshop issue. I would avoid any business that behaved that way. I used to get my hair cut by an elderly gentleman. He told a racist joke while I was there waiting one time. I got up and left and have not been back.

These people do not make gun owners look bad, they just make themselves look ignorant
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Old January 5, 2013, 10:49 PM   #6
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TennJed, that is true about other places but the firearms community is under enough scrutiny at the present time. Goofs like that don't help matters.
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Old January 5, 2013, 11:30 PM   #7
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The outfit I work for changed to a new training range (we probably qualify 300 people per year, conservatively) when the range staff were rude, in a racist way, with one of our personnel. The owner not only did not reprimand his employee, he took up for him and accused our guy of being overly sensitive.
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Old January 6, 2013, 12:03 AM   #8
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I would avoid a shop that exhibited racist or sexist tendencies. They would most likely be stupid in other ways too.

In my time in the service, I met enough people of all sorts, to teach me that we're all people, and to take everyone as an individual.
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Old January 6, 2013, 10:19 AM   #9
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I agree with the OP.
I don't do business with any shop (gun or otherwise) that is openly prejiduce against anyone.
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Old January 6, 2013, 11:34 AM   #10
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Which brings us to another point,

Does the prevalence of "Zombie" stuff, grips, ammo, targets etc reflect on gun owners poorly? Maybe presenting some as not taking firearms seriously? Does it give the impression that some gun owners consider firearms a toy?

My opinion is that it can though I will concede that I know no one, family, friends, club members or co-workers, who buy this stuff so I can't say that I've seen unsafe behavior related to it. I also know that I "have no sense of humor that I'm aware of" so it could be just me.
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Old January 6, 2013, 11:39 AM   #11
5.56RifleGuy
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Is the zombie stuff really any worse than the realistic looking human targets? I dont buy the zombie stuff, but it doesnt really bother me.
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Old January 6, 2013, 12:23 PM   #12
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Cascade1911, I think it may just be your lack of a sense of humor.

I find the zombie targets an occasionally amusing change of pace. The Hornady zombie defense ammo made me cringe a bit, but to each, his own.
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Old January 6, 2013, 12:24 PM   #13
buck460XVR
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TennJed, that is true about other places but the firearms community is under enough scrutiny at the present time. Goofs like that don't help matters.

True.......it's just unfortunate those types are still out there. Sadly, too many associate gun owners with this stereotype..... The brash redneck that drives drunk to his kid's youth sporting events while beating his wife for not having his favorite supper ready when he got home. The toothless wonder that wears his KKK hood while shooting deer and road signs out the window of his pickup truck when he's not peering down the front of his 15 year old nieces blouse, who's sittin' next to him so his coon dog can have the window seat.
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Old January 6, 2013, 12:29 PM   #14
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So, buck460XVR, you say we need more positive role model spokesmen? I agree. Aside from not giving business to jerks, we might consider what our own opportunities are to make favorable impressions.

Take an anti shooting, at a well-run range, for instance.

Point the anti who accuses gun owners of homophobia toward the Pink Pistols organization.

Don't lower ourselves to the rabid levels of many of our opponents.
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Old January 6, 2013, 12:37 PM   #15
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Quote:
The Hornady zombie defense ammo made me cringe a bit, but to each, his own.
I've been pretty much of the same opinion but going with the "some painting gun owners in a bad light" topic and your admission that the "Zombie Defense" ammo makes you "cringe a bit" what can be done with this stuff by the Anti's?

I like Mleake's suggestions especially:
Quote:
Take an anti shooting, at a well-run range, for instance.
.
Not just anti's, Chance of turning an anti from the dark side is slim but I think turning a non shooter pro gun may be better.

Last edited by Cascade1911; January 6, 2013 at 12:46 PM.
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Old January 6, 2013, 12:44 PM   #16
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What can be done with anything at all?

Look how Michael Moore edited Charlton Heston in "Bowling for Columbine" to completely change the tone of what Heston said at the convention, and how antis all ignored the hatchet job.

People will believe what they like. Not my concern. My concern is whether their belief is justifiable. In the case the OP suggested, it is, so we need to change that underlying truth.

In the case of zombie gear, we might just need to open a can of "Lighten up, Francis."

Otherwise, if we want to self-regulate away such things as levity, eccentricity, and individuality - we become just like the antis, don't we?
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Old January 6, 2013, 12:51 PM   #17
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Goes beyond; Good-old boy conversation

Quote:
Thankfully, I've never heard anything like what these guys spew come from any other shop around here. I just can't tell you how disappointed I am with this.
If you are truly disappointed, do something about it, don't just complain like most folks would do. In a positive and assertive way, let them know that this is a place of public business and how most folks take offense to such language. If you do, you will be singled out but at least you can take satisfaction that you did your best to correct ignorance. ....

Last year I had the opertunity to do just that and I still do business with them. They still get a bit quiet when I go in but so be it.

Be Safe !!!
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Old January 6, 2013, 01:06 PM   #18
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Just FYI Hornady's Zombie Max Ammo is basically AMAX bullets with the lime green plastic instead of red. Pretty good stuff actually.
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Old January 6, 2013, 01:06 PM   #19
Cascade1911
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Quote:
In the case of zombie gear, we might just need to open a can of "Lighten up, Francis."
I've heard the same argument made in defense of racist or sexist jokes.

Quote:
Otherwise, if we want to self-regulate away such things as levity, eccentricity, and individuality - we become just like the antis, don't we?
I suggest no self regulation except on the personal level. I'm not comfortable with the "Levity" represented by Zombie gear so I don't buy it. If Zombie gear is how you role that's certainly up to you. I'm not even saying it's wrong. I'm just suggesting how it might be perceived by outsiders.

(added a couple of words to clarify my muddled thoughts in the edit.)

Last edited by Cascade1911; January 6, 2013 at 02:49 PM.
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Old January 6, 2013, 01:13 PM   #20
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No role playing involved, I just shoot the things every so often.

I never did like round targets. I prefer silhouette or photo types, both because they help me practice targeting specific anatomical parts, and also because of studies on the reluctance of shooters to shoot at humans. Note that the military uses human silhouette type targets; there is a reason for that.

Overt racism is something else, entirely.

I do not oppose the OP's store owner's right to express himself, and in fact would oppose government sanctions against such speech. But, I would not give him my business, and I might give him a piece of my mind. (Cliche though it may be, my dad's best friend from his Navy days was black; racism was not tolerated in my home. Freedoms of thought and speech, however, were championed.)
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Old January 6, 2013, 06:01 PM   #21
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I was in a water hole having a beer quite a while back.The news was on,and it was about the war.
A young fellow I did not know tried opening a conversation with a racist"joke"

I told him to watch the news and notice there were all colors of faces serving this country,they all wear the same color uniform,they bleed the same color of blood,and they ask for the same momma when they die.

He said he did not mean to offend me.

I told him I was not offended,I was still the same as when I walked in..I was just trying to help him stop making a fool of himself in front of all these people.

He left. I hope maybe he learned something.


Seems like,by now,we should be so over this .

Last edited by HiBC; January 6, 2013 at 06:18 PM.
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Old January 6, 2013, 06:36 PM   #22
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Idiots Abound Everywhere

You will find racists, sexists, idiots, and generally bad people of both political stripes and genders at bars, stores, schools, businesses, government facilities etc....

Don't do business at any such place, move on and your point will have been made.
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Old January 6, 2013, 07:30 PM   #23
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You will find racists, sexists, idiots, and generally bad people of both political stripes and genders at bars, stores, schools, businesses, government facilities etc....
You say that as if there were only 2 sides to politics ......
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Old January 6, 2013, 10:32 PM   #24
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You say that as if there were only 2 sides to politics ......
Yup--I think I have the looming upcoming Congressional debate (scheduled to begin 1-21) concerning Sen. Diane Frankestein's AWB II on the brain--The Circus in action, namely, the elephants & donkeys where it seems no other animals are permitted ...
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Old January 7, 2013, 10:35 AM   #25
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Does the prevalence of "Zombie" stuff, grips, ammo, targets etc reflect on gun owners poorly?
Yes.
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