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Old January 12, 2013, 04:07 PM   #1
SC4006
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7.62x54R vs 30-06

I am starting this thread out of pure curiosity. I know for the most part the 30-06 out-performs the 7.62x54R, but is there anything that the russian round has over the american one?
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Old January 12, 2013, 04:30 PM   #2
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Only if you want to make a break open single shot or double rifle.
The 7.62X54R is an excellent round for break action guns. Probably the best one out there in the 30 cal range.
But in bolt actions and autos the 30-06 (and the 308 too) are both better designed.
That’s not to say there is anything "wrong" with the Russian round. There’s not. It's old fashioned but still very very good.
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Old January 12, 2013, 04:38 PM   #3
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from a strictly performance point of view, no 54r has nothing that a 30 06 doesn't. it is cheaper but that's about the only advantage, there is probably a reason why there are no factory options for 54R, only military surplus.
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Old January 12, 2013, 05:15 PM   #4
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Interesting. Do you suppose a handloader could load the 54R to about the performance level of the 30-06, or is that just impossible? I am definitely considering handloading in the future, and 7.62x54R will be one of the rounds I reload most likely.
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Old January 12, 2013, 05:22 PM   #5
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There is factory 7.62x54r
Americans don't really use it due to the abundance and cheapness of the surplus.
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Old January 12, 2013, 09:16 PM   #6
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actually I was referring to the fact that nobody makes a rifle chambered in 54R. I suppose that yes you could load a 54R to similar velocity as 30-06 however you can also load 30-06 to higher than standard velocities as well so it still retains it's superiority in that sense. also if you are shooting 54R you are either shooting a mosin nagant or a Dragunov/psl and the mosin nagant is not the best when it comes to hot loads and the semi autos lose a bit of their velocity so they suffer even more.

30-06 is just a better round with better rifle options.
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Old January 12, 2013, 09:22 PM   #7
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Max pressure in .30-06 is 20% higher. Probably nor prudent to load it that high.
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Old January 12, 2013, 09:37 PM   #8
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The 7.62x54R is a fine round. While a little less performance than the 30-06, it measures up pretty closely to the .308.

If you are planning on using this as a hunting round, in the real world your game won't be able to tell the difference between any of the three.
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Old January 12, 2013, 09:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
If you are planning on using this as a hunting round, in the real world your game won't be able to tell the difference between any of the three.
They could tell the difference in the bullets so you want to make sure that is correct.
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Old January 12, 2013, 10:50 PM   #10
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Pound for pound, the 54R is closer to the .308 performance wise. For a hunting or goofing around, can't beat the 54R surplus ammo.
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Old January 13, 2013, 12:53 AM   #11
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I really wouldn't want to go hunting with steel core myself. my rusky surplus sparks every single shot when it hits steel targets so I would definitely say that expansion is going to be poor at best. for squirrels rabbits and skunks it's sufficient but I would use current production soft points for anything larger than a coyote.
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Old January 13, 2013, 08:11 AM   #12
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They could tell the difference in the bullets so you want to make sure that is correct.
That is a good caveat to my original statement Alabama Shooter.

Hunting deer with mil-surplus ammo wouldn't ideal but of course you could make a very good hunting round if you reload. There are also commercial loadings available if you look around.
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Old January 13, 2013, 08:44 AM   #13
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Besides the shooter, bullet construction is probabley the most important part of a hunting round.

Betcha a deer couldn't tell it he was hit in the heart lung area up to 300 years (normal hunting ranges) with a 150 grn 7.62X54R or a 150 grn '06. Chance are both are going to exit the animal. Same quality bullet you'll get the same damage.

Hyper velocity is not needed. Look at the 30-30, look at the 30-40 Krag, both excellent hunting rounds, both have less velocity then the two rounds mentioned.

What it really comes down to isnt the bullet, but the shooter's ability to put the bullet where its suppose to go.
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Old January 13, 2013, 09:11 AM   #14
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i shoot .54R that is stronger then the 06. look up the Hornaday Vintage Match those .54's are putting out numbers that just tip the 30-06.
7.62x54R- FPS 2650 Ft lbs 2713
30-06 M1 Garand- FPS 2700 Ft lbs 2719
so they are so close to one another you could possibly get a round from the mosin that will chrono more then the M1's 30-06 load. at least we had one shootin FPS 2750.
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Old January 13, 2013, 12:26 PM   #15
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custom aqautics, you are basing those velocities off a caparison between a bolt and a semi, in a bolt action almost all pressure is directed towards forcing the bullet out of the barrel, in a semi part of that pressure is necessary to cycle the bolt and robs a great deal of pressure, also, M1s have to have lower pressure ammunition to avoid damaging their operating rods meaning that a springfield or other bolt action rifle would have significantly higher velocity over an M1 and if you were to compare a springfield to an SVT40 then the velocity differences would be several hundred FPS in favor of the 06.
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Old January 13, 2013, 02:40 PM   #16
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Thanks for all of the input guys. As for hunting I am probably taking my mosin deer hunting next season, which I have some PPU soft points for, not surplus fmj stuff.
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Old January 13, 2013, 03:36 PM   #17
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The amount of velocity loss in an M1 rifle vs an M1903 is negligible, assuming the same ammunition. The gas port of the M1 is only an inch from the muzzle and the amount of gas bled off is not enough to drop velocity below the normal variation in cartridges from the same lot.

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Old January 13, 2013, 03:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Thanks for all of the input guys. As for hunting I am probably taking my mosin deer hunting next season, which I have some PPU soft points for, not surplus fmj stuff.
good for you, I also have some of the PPU stuff in case I ever get a wild hair where the sun don't shine and decide to take mine out, which round is superior when considering deer is irrelevant. both will drop a deer like a sack of sh...er... I mean... stuff....a sack of stuff
Quote:
The amount of velocity loss in an M1 rifle vs an M1903 is negligible, assuming the same ammunition. The gas port of the M1 is only an inch from the muzzle and the amount of gas bled off is not enough to drop velocity below the normal variation in cartridges from the same lot.
you are also ignoring the fact that M2 ball(AKA garand safe ammo) is loaded lower than the standard velocity 30-06 that you find of most shelves, springfields, as well as all modern bolt actions chambered in 30-06 are able to shoot both standard velocity AND higher than standard without issues. nowhere in the discussion was the question asked 7.62x54R vs garand safe 30-06 loads, you can not base 30-06 performance as a whole, off of M2 ball out of a garand.
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Old January 13, 2013, 04:00 PM   #19
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Cheaper and can be found all over the place in a lot of variety
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Old January 13, 2013, 04:55 PM   #20
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The short answer is that the communist block has never ever made anything superior to an American product in direct comparison. With the possible exception of Vodka.
Im sure a Mosin will easily drop a deer with a quality bullet. My favorite -06 is a 165 Sierra BT.
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Old January 13, 2013, 05:37 PM   #21
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SC4006, if you have hunting bullets for your 7.62x54, i really doubt you will notice a difference deer hunting under 200 yards. After that distance the inaccuracy of the average mosin vs. the average 30-06 hunting rifle will really start to show. I think that would make more of a difference than the two rounds themselves
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Old January 13, 2013, 05:38 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by BoogieMan View Post
The short answer is that the communist block has never ever made anything superior to an American product in direct comparison.
This is irrelevant, as the 7.62x54r predates the communist block. It was introduced in imperial times, in 1891. It predates the 30-06 too, BTW. Arguably, one might say they beat us to it...

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