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Old May 6, 2013, 09:51 AM   #1
.30luger
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.30 Luger pistol, DWM all matching numbers!!!

I recently came across an old German DWM .30 Luger, not 9mm, which i believe was captured during wartime for it was found in a box in the attic of my grandfather. All numbers on all pieces of the gun match, a small "m" looking symbol is seen under the barrel and around the trigger. (mauser?) it was made in germany for sure. im curious as to how much it may be worth and where i can go to sell or appraise such an item as it was not with any registration papers or anything. any help?!?!?!
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Old May 6, 2013, 10:56 AM   #2
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Almost all Luger pistols in .30 Luger were commercial pistols. Good news is that they are worth more than military Lugers. Bad news (I suppose) is that it was not a battlefield capture. Find a firearms appraiser or Luger collector for a good appraisal.
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Old May 6, 2013, 11:01 AM   #3
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Good news is that they (30 cal commercial) are worth more than military Lugers.
Thats news to me...IMO that is rarely true. A military example, in the same condition, with the same orginality, will nearly always be worth more. Of course there are some very common military variations IE DWM 1918, and there are some more rare and interesting 30 cal examples, but in general, I would have to disagree with the above statement.
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Old May 6, 2013, 11:09 AM   #4
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All numbers on all pieces of the gun match, a small "m" looking symbol is seen under the barrel and around the trigger. (mauser?)
The small M could be part of the SN. A crown/M stamp was a WWI era Navy marking.

"M" would not be for Mauser. If the gun is a DWM, it cannot also be a Mauser. Its kind of like saying you have a Ford Chevy truck - either one, or the other. DWMs are marked with scrollwork on the rear toggle, and Mausers are marked either S/42, 42, or BYF on the top of rear toggle. The Mauser codes were "secret" since production of 9mm lugers violated the treaty of versailles before WWII and then they were kept secret code so the allies could not prove where the arms were being manufactured IE which factory to bomb.
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Old May 6, 2013, 03:10 PM   #5
.30luger
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ahhhh so it may not be as rare as i believe? what are the commercial ones worth these days? here is a pic
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Old May 6, 2013, 03:19 PM   #6
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Commercial Mauser Lugers were marked with Mauser "banner", but none were marked DWM. DWM was part of a consortium that also owned Mauser, so Mauser was the successor to DWM for Luger production.

.30 Luger (7.65 Parabellum) was the original Luger caliber, and some pistols in that caliber are very valuable. But most of the Lugers around in .30 Luger caliber were sold here between wars. They are often referred to as "1920 commercial" Lugers, and most were rebarrelled military surplus guns, though nicely refinished and with the military date removed. They were made in .30 Luger because German companies were prohibited under the Versailles treaty from making 9mm pistols except for the police and the small military force.

Once again, it is hard to provide more information without good pictures.

Jim
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Old May 7, 2013, 02:51 PM   #7
.30luger
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here are a couple more
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Old May 7, 2013, 02:53 PM   #8
.30luger
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thanks
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Old May 7, 2013, 02:59 PM   #9
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Commercial Mauser Lugers were marked with Mauser "banner", but none were marked DWM.
Thx for mentioning that. I didn't think of those for two reasons: 1) Mauser commercials are more scarce than DWMs AND 2) IIRC aren't most (if not all) Mauser commercials actually in 9mm? When he said "30 luger" I automatically thought "DWM". The first German military Mauser made lugers arrived in 1934 and IIRC Mauser did not make many lugers at all before then.
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Old May 7, 2013, 03:00 PM   #10
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That rear toggle is displaying the classic "DWM" scrollwork, fyi.
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Old May 7, 2013, 04:34 PM   #11
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I'm with JK.
External serial numbers with letter suffix, no date, .30; I think it is one of the many WWI leftovers rebarreled to .30 under Versailles restrictions.
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Old May 7, 2013, 06:29 PM   #12
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The receiver ring seems to show signs that something was removed. While most of the "1920 commercials" were refinished to peacetime standards, work on the receiver ring could indicate removal of the military date.

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Old May 7, 2013, 11:08 PM   #13
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External serial numbers with letter suffix, no date, .30; I think it is one of the many WWI leftovers rebarreled to .30 under Versailles restrictions.
I see what you mean, but the gun has commercial SN placement. I was not aware that after WWI, finished lugers had all markings removed and then were numbered in a commercial style?

The OP's luger lacks military acceptance proofs on the right of frame. The gun has Crown/N proofing as well, which is the commercial nitro proof. The gun, while having readable SN numbers on parts, still actually has what is considered "hidden" SN placement which is a trademark of commercial lugers. When ascertaining hidden vs exposed (military) look at the side plate and the take down lever. When the numbers are on bottom aka this gun, those are called "hidden". When they are outside meaning visible from a left side view of the gun, the numbers are then "exposed".

Here is "exposed" on my Mauser G date (1935)



Here are the "hidden" numbers of the OPs DWM luger


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Old May 8, 2013, 10:11 AM   #14
.30luger
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So wichester_73. if im not mistaken, by your analysis i most likely have a 1920 commercial luger. due to the "hidden" SN's as well as the nitro proof commercial stamp? not such a great find after all i guess :/
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Old May 8, 2013, 12:01 PM   #15
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not such a great find after all i guess :/
NO NO NO NO NO.
Grandfather... Luger... attic... knowledge imparted... ABSOLUTELY A GREAT FIND! (IMO of course... YMMV)

Will you get rich financially off it? Does money count when family and history are involved? (Well, OK if the money is good enough maybe )

A Great Find.
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Old May 8, 2013, 04:27 PM   #16
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NO NO NO NO NO.
Grandfather... Luger... attic... knowledge imparted... ABSOLUTELY A GREAT FIND! (IMO of course... YMMV)

Will you get rich financially off it? Does money count when family and history are involved? (Well, OK if the money is good enough maybe )

A Great Find.
I agree. I was not at all trying to talk down your luger either. I was trying to analyze its characteristics in order to simply properly identify it. Perhaps we all have missed something, because the pics aren't the best for us. The only thing thats not that great are your pics (no offense).

Despite it being a commercial luger (which you were hoping for something more valuable?) it is STILL a luger. You also said all pieces match, and it lacks import stamps. Its also not refinished. These are all good things. I will probably get some flak for saying this, but any real gun collector, esp military gun collector has a luger. Believe it or not, it bothered me for a long time that my collection lacked a luger until I finally got one. Of course some people may only collect revolvers, BP guns, rifles, etc, BUT if you have any generalist tendencies, if you collect pistols, if you collect historic firearms, a luger is a must IMO.

No offense to the lugerless - just my opinion on the matter.
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Old May 9, 2013, 04:51 PM   #17
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Yes, surplus Lugers were reworked to 7.65mm post-WWI. On the OP's pistol, note that the locking bolt (takedown lever) has been ground where the military number was, and the left side of the receive appears to have had the military number removed. The top of the receiver ring, also shows signs of work, though that area usually was nicely refinished. But the military style number with the suffix was retained and the new barrel marked accordingly.

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Old May 16, 2013, 06:00 PM   #18
.30luger
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alll great feedback. im going to take some better pics and post them soon. next step is finding a good place to sell it. as i am not a gun collector myself and would prefer a more modern day gun for personal use.
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Old May 16, 2013, 09:32 PM   #19
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I'll trade you a gen 2 Glock 17 straight up, even throw in a few extra magazines AND the tupperware box it came in. Probably worth $450 or so...

(me own opinion following... sell off grandfathers bring back Luger? You're a better man than I sir. Plus, I guess you'll have to change your screen name then too eh?)

Take some good photos. Go over to lugerforums. Post a WTS or WTT (you could do it here as well mind you). A local gun shop will offer you about half of it's actual worth, but that is one method of deciding on a value you can live with.

Good luck. Hope you get something of equal value. (but I has me doubts, some things are worth more than money. IMO again)
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Old June 2, 2013, 05:41 AM   #20
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I'm not disagreeing with anyone but I'd like to mention that the one and only Luger I ever owned was a 1920 Comercial model, the reciever bridge was marked 1917 and had British proof marks.

It was in VG or a little bit better and I paid $400 for it at Ammo Depot in Dallas in 1999. I dont think Mickey really knew what he had as I sold it to Mr. Wolff that always used to have a table full of them at the DFW shows for $600.

I agree that every serious gun collector should have at least one Lugewr and this one was mine.

IMO a Luger is like a beautiful woman that wont screw and can't cook.
\
Super sensitive to ammo power and OAL, a trigger pull like pulling a cat off a cedar shake roof by the tail and an overal dislike of dust and dirt.

It didn't live up to all my boyhood dreams, for sure.
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Old June 2, 2013, 08:41 AM   #21
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It didn't live up to all my boyhood dreams, for sure.
Sad that. Back in 95 I bought a pair of Russian refurb P08s for $250 ea. because of my Dads 1916 he bought from a WWII vet (bringback). His was in excellent shape (still is) but mine... both had BTDT, smooth checkered grips thru use, worn to a frazzle, bore shot mostly smooth in one (thought about rebarrel or relining barrel, but... nah).

I tried one of Mitchells new stainless steel models when they came out... ick. Pretty but, just didn't hack it for moi. (they were expensive too, and I'm cheap)

Just a piece of history in your hands. Nothing more, nothing less. Better handguns exist today for sure.
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Old June 2, 2013, 09:11 AM   #22
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"Just a piece of history in your hands. Nothing more, nothing less. Better handguns exist today for sure. "

Yeah, it was sad. In all my youthful fantasys I was actualy using the damn thing.

Not to say that they ain't great pistols, they are just a little too delicate for me to go around with one stuffed in my pocket.
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Old June 5, 2013, 06:25 AM   #23
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IMO a Luger is like a beautiful woman that wont screw and can't cook
I hope you dont mind if I use that quote in the future.
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Old June 5, 2013, 06:35 AM   #24
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I've had a different experience with my Russian refurb 1941 Mauser Luger, also bought in 1995. It has been 100% reliable with any 9MM I have tried including my 115 grain and 124 grain FMJ, and plated flat point reloads, factory 124 grain JHP, and anything else I've run through it. The trigger is superb, and accuracy is excellent. I wouldn't hesitate to use it for self defense if I had to do so.
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Old June 18, 2013, 11:24 PM   #25
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While probably not captured from a serviceman of the Third Reich, you can bet it was certainly liberated from a Third Reich home. Firearms were confiscated from German civilians immediately after the war, due to concerns about die-hard fanatics and Werewolf guerrilla war in the mountains. A very low-grade warfare continued until 1946 in isolated areas, but the Germans thankfully accepted defeat for the most part, they were pretty much destroyed as a nation by 1945.

I'd call your Luger a good wartime souvenir that should stay in the family, if that's what you want to do.
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