How Does the 40SW Survive the Firearmageddon?

TunnelRat · January 3, 2013, 12:41 PM

Hi all,
So I was just curious if this was true elsewhere as well. Ammo has become a very scarce commodity where I live. Every Wally World around me is out of 9mm and a box of 45ACP has become a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Gunshops that do have 9mm are charging $30 for 100 rds. But despite all this, the 40SW is there like a sea of dandelions in my backyard. Everywhere I go there are boxes and boxes of 100 ct 40SW for say $35 for 100 rds. And I mean boxes, prob 10-20 at every Wally World sitting there laughing at me for selling my 40SW pistols.

Is it just that the 40SW is that much less popular? I would think that if it was Walmart wouldn't be ordering so much of it. Or is production of it for LEO and government contracts just helping the supply? All I know is I am tempted to pick up a 40SW pistol. 9mm may be cheaper, but cheap ammo that I can't get doesn't do me any good.

-TR

RBid · January 3, 2013, 12:45 PM

Same situation here (Portland, OR area). 9mm and .45 ACP are pretty much gone. Meanwhile, .40 is still there to be had.

I favor 9mm, but I'm setting money aside to pick up a .40, just for these types of situations.

Mystro · January 3, 2013, 01:01 PM

40S&W is THE police round. It is today what the 9mm was in the 1980's. The 40S&W should be your arsenal, especially if you are a doomsday planner.

TunnelRat · January 3, 2013, 01:10 PM

Then the question becomes what is a good, relatively cheap handgun that handles the 40SW well? It probably won't be shot a ton. I was thinking the venerable Glock 23? Maybe a Gen 4 as the 40SW models haven't had issues have they?

Mystro · January 3, 2013, 01:18 PM

Yea, the Glock 40 is a dime a dozen and because its a LE gun, it can be had cheap. The FNX40 is another bullet proof affordable gun. The 40 is only getting more popular. The FNX is very hi-capacity and light weight. They also come with 3 mags and a full length steel guide rod and will eat any garbage ammo you can feed it. It really is a bargain for what you get.

Dashunde · January 3, 2013, 01:37 PM

I'm really warming up to the G35 for that round.
Its just a hair longer than the G22, but its rounded slide mitigates most of that plus its hollowed out slide loses some weight.
Add that it can run 9mm with a barrel swap and its a fairly attractive full-size truck/house/range pistol.

I have a G27, might add a G35 and while I'm at it that Kel-tec Sub2000 in .40 S&W running Glock magazines might be a cool addition.

carguychris · January 3, 2013, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Then the question becomes what is a good, relatively cheap handgun that handles the 40SW well?... I was thinking the venerable Glock 23? Maybe a Gen 4 as the 40SW models haven't had issues have they?

AFAIK the Gen4 problems seem to be more or less confined to the 9mm models.

If you look at used .40S&W Glocks, it's inevitable that someone will bring up the Glock kB! and chamber support, so I might as well bring them up preemptively.

Culled from an earlier post of mine, with minor edits:

Quote:

AFAIK the issue was not necessarily addressed during the Gen2 --> Gen3 switchover; I've been told that it was a barrel design change that was done around the same time. The redesigned barrel can supposedly be identified by a dot inside the small pentagonal mark found on the barrel next to the "Glock" logo and serial number.

Also, many Glock fans bristle at the word "unsupported"; IMHO the chambers are better characterized as "less supported" and "more supported". The vast majority of .40S&W autos, Glock or not, do not fully support the entire chamber in the feed ramp area. The issue with early .40S&W Glocks was that they have less support in this area than most other pistols do.

The main issue with the early Glock chamber is the use of handloaded or remanufactured ammo, particularly with brass previously used in an early Glock chamber before being resized; this weakens the brass in the critical area. Multiple firing and resizing cycles and/or hot loads exacerbate the problem. Newer load books have written warnings against reusing "Glocked" brass with feed-ramp bulges in ANY pistol. [Translation: Avoid .40S&W gun show reloads like the plague!]

That said, there HAVE been documented instances of case failures while using brand-new factory ammo in older .40S&W Glocks. Some people have attributed this to Federal brass that is supposedly thinner than other brands, ~~but I have yet to see a reputable source to back this up.~~ [I have found a source since I first posted this, and it states that Federal improved their brass in 1996. IOW newer-production ammo in gun stores today should not exhibit the problems.]

At any rate, I wouldn't characterize this as a critical "avoid the pistols at all costs" type of problem; the rate of failures seems pretty rare, although IMHO the warnings about reloaded ammo are worth heeding.

In short, the problem primarily occurs when firing a Gen1 or early-to-mid-production Gen2 with pre-1996 Federal ammo or reloads. A late Gen2, a Gen3, or a Gen4 fired using recent-production factory ammo should not have any risk of the dreaded kB!

Other than the FNP/FNX, my other suggested candidate for a cheap but very nice .40S&W pistol would be a police trade-in S&W Model 4003 or 4006. If you can live with a DAO trigger, an equivalent M4043 or M4046 will be even cheaper. This recommendation should come as no surprise, since my fondness for 3rd-gen Smiths is well documented.

BarryLee · January 3, 2013, 05:25 PM

There are actually a lot of nice used .40S&W handguns since so many law enforcement organizations use them. Obviously the GLOCK is the most common, but I have seen great deals on guns from HK, SIG and S&W in various LGSs.

Hey Mystro love the Strider the one I have is built like a tank.

Cheapshooter · January 3, 2013, 05:39 PM

Where the Glock is a great gun, I personally prefer my Springfield Armory XD40 Sub Compact for the additional security of the grip safety.

thedudeabides · January 3, 2013, 06:03 PM

The best 40 handgun is the P229. Period.

Otherwise get a 10mm.

TunnelRat · January 3, 2013, 06:06 PM

My LGS has a Steyr M40-A1 for sale, $400 with two mags. I've always been oddly fascinated by the things, might be time to give it a serious look.

ShootingNut · January 3, 2013, 06:08 PM

My favorite in .40 is the M&P series (full and compact), and my Beretta 96FS. All sweet shooting and very accurate, in spite of my age and eyes.
I reload for the 9 up thru 45, so not current on what is on store shelves. Some put the .40 down, this I never understood.
SN

BrokenBottles · January 3, 2013, 06:18 PM

There's no "handgun" calibers at any stores near besides big5 who already has massively inflated prices, unless you're looking for 357sig, but even those are disappearing.

Bond007 · January 3, 2013, 06:46 PM

As an interesting note, my LGS's consignment shelves are always full of lightly-used pistols. Seems many new shooters pick them up and don't like the felt recoil compared to 9mm. So there's usually a consistent supply of ammo and quality firearms available.

I'm a huge fan of 40S&W and 357Sig and keep going back-and-forth on which I prefer. My first pistol was a 40S&W and I loved the 180gr. I then fell for 357Sig's fireball and the newer 135/165 loads for 40S&W have me split again.

The_Meteorologist · January 3, 2013, 06:51 PM

The story is very much the same here in Anchorage, AK. 9mm is completely out, but the shelves are stocked full of .40, and it is actually quite cheap. I picked up two boxes yesterday at a local grocery store for 16.99, cheapest I have seen it in a long time.

Personally I am glad now that I went with both a 9mm and .40 given the complete shortage of 9mm here since Christmas.

ShootingNut · January 3, 2013, 07:47 PM

Due to the factory ammo shortage, many are starting to reload.
And, as a result we are finding shortages at times of our favorite powders and primers.
But, reloading certainly is not for everyone. Sales of everything, including the guns, have gone nuts as we all know.

Noreaster · January 3, 2013, 07:57 PM

Buy a 40S&W pistol and you can pick up a 357 Sig barrel for $100.00 and shoot 357 Sig if you want. 2 guns in 1!

Mercenary · January 3, 2013, 08:16 PM

I just purchased a G27. Initially I thought that I should go with the G26 to compliment my G17, but then I thought about the last time I went to Wally World and like you said, 40 S&W was the only semi auto ammo left in the case!

Now I can just get me a Lone Wolf barrel and some mags and have essentially a G26 but if 9mm ammo stays scarce, I'm slowly stocking up on 40 S&W. A little harder to do might I add for those who are on a tighter budget as it is roughly $5 per box of 50 rounds than that of equivalent 9mm.

As for a 40 suggestions?

G23 is great and for $100 and change you can have a 9mm conversion barrel. Another $100 will get you a 357 SIG barrel (this seems to be in stock in addition to 40 S&W at some LGS's).

M&P was designed around a 40 S&W

If you take a liking to the wifey's new SR9c, there's the SR40/40c also.

tgreening · January 3, 2013, 08:39 PM

Maybe it's a regional thing because around here the shelves are full to busting with just about anything in pistol caliber. 9, 40, 45, 357 you name it. Anything .223/5.56 is Unobtanium, and AK food is only a touch better.

lefteye · January 3, 2013, 08:52 PM

At my Bass Pro Shop yesterday I was surprised at the full stock of .40 S&W ammo, especially compared to the next shelf above the .40 - empty except for five boxes of Rem. 9mm. My guess is the .40 is not very popular in my area.

TunnelRat · January 3, 2013, 10:08 PM

Orders of 5.56 in bulk are backordered for months near me.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys! Tomorrow will be find a 40SW day.

Constantine · January 4, 2013, 12:06 AM

I only kept the issued Glock 22. It's a second gen. But couldn't part ways with that .40 and the Hk is hanging out around my house somewhere.

rock185 · January 4, 2013, 12:20 AM

Haven't checked the local WalMart lately, but the last time we went through this, there was usually a couple boxes of .357 SIG and .25 ACP on the pistol ammo shelf. No .38 Spcl., .357, 9MM, .40 or .45 for about a year. There was always shotgun shells/birdshot available. They said they did get in the other calibers, but you had to be there when they put it out to get any. Almost a year after the 2008 election, I found, and bought, a box of .38 Spcl on the shelf at WalMart. The sales person was amazed that it was still there, as it had been put out several hours earlier. I suspect we're in the same situation again, only much more serious this time...

BigJimP · January 4, 2013, 02:14 PM

I like the .40S&W round....and I have some Sigs chambered in it ...226's and 239's ..and an X-Five.../ and one 5" 1911....

( and I reload - so I don't really pay attention to retail ammo availability )...

I think this buying frenzy is probably temporary ....yes prices on ammo, etc are going up ...but if people will just relax a little ...it might settle down to something reasonable.

I don't shoot the .40S&W caliber ...as much as I shoot 9mm, .45 acp or .357 mag..../ if I only had a 9mm...what calibers would I add for versatility :

a. # 1 would be .45 acp....
b. # 2 would be .357 mag ...
c. 3rd would be a .40 S&W...

and if I thought handgun ammo was going to be in short supply long term....I'd buy a Dillon SDB press / as a good entry level press.

LockedBreech · January 4, 2013, 02:36 PM

.40 is my favorite round. The availability is a nice side benefit. Got about 800 rounds of American Eagle stored up right now.

January 3, 2013, 12:41 PM	#1
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 2,402	How Does the 40SW Survive the Firearmageddon? Hi all, So I was just curious if this was true elsewhere as well. Ammo has become a very scarce commodity where I live. Every Wally World around me is out of 9mm and a box of 45ACP has become a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Gunshops that do have 9mm are charging $30 for 100 rds. But despite all this, the 40SW is there like a sea of dandelions in my backyard. Everywhere I go there are boxes and boxes of 100 ct 40SW for say $35 for 100 rds. And I mean boxes, prob 10-20 at every Wally World sitting there laughing at me for selling my 40SW pistols. Is it just that the 40SW is that much less popular? I would think that if it was Walmart wouldn't be ordering so much of it. Or is production of it for LEO and government contracts just helping the supply? All I know is I am tempted to pick up a 40SW pistol. 9mm may be cheaper, but cheap ammo that I can't get doesn't do me any good. -TR __________________ Guns don't kill people. Apes with guns kill people! - Robin Williams Last edited by TunnelRat; January 3, 2013 at 12:48 PM.

January 3, 2013, 12:45 PM	#2
RBid Senior Member Join Date: March 10, 2012 Posts: 574	Same situation here (Portland, OR area). 9mm and .45 ACP are pretty much gone. Meanwhile, .40 is still there to be had. I favor 9mm, but I'm setting money aside to pick up a .40, just for these types of situations. __________________ Currently Own: Ruger SR9c, Glock 23 (Gen 3), Glock 19 (Gen 4)

January 3, 2013, 01:01 PM	#3
Mystro Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2004 Location: Central Pa. Posts: 459	40S&W is THE police round. It is today what the 9mm was in the 1980's. The 40S&W should be your arsenal, especially if you are a doomsday planner. __________________ "I'm a good guy with a gun" What do I care if I give up some freedom or rights?....The Goverment will take care of me. This kind of thinking is now in the majority and it should concern you. "Ask not what you can do for your country, but what free entitlements you can bleed from your country"

January 3, 2013, 01:10 PM	#4
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 2,402	Then the question becomes what is a good, relatively cheap handgun that handles the 40SW well? It probably won't be shot a ton. I was thinking the venerable Glock 23? Maybe a Gen 4 as the 40SW models haven't had issues have they? __________________ Guns don't kill people. Apes with guns kill people! - Robin Williams

January 3, 2013, 01:18 PM	#5
Mystro Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2004 Location: Central Pa. Posts: 459	Yea, the Glock 40 is a dime a dozen and because its a LE gun, it can be had cheap. The FNX40 is another bullet proof affordable gun. The 40 is only getting more popular. The FNX is very hi-capacity and light weight. They also come with 3 mags and a full length steel guide rod and will eat any garbage ammo you can feed it. It really is a bargain for what you get. __________________ "I'm a good guy with a gun" What do I care if I give up some freedom or rights?....The Goverment will take care of me. This kind of thinking is now in the majority and it should concern you. "Ask not what you can do for your country, but what free entitlements you can bleed from your country"

January 3, 2013, 01:37 PM	#6
Dashunde Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2004 Posts: 1,427	I'm really warming up to the G35 for that round. Its just a hair longer than the G22, but its rounded slide mitigates most of that plus its hollowed out slide loses some weight. Add that it can run 9mm with a barrel swap and its a fairly attractive full-size truck/house/range pistol. I have a G27, might add a G35 and while I'm at it that Kel-tec Sub2000 in .40 S&W running Glock magazines might be a cool addition.

January 3, 2013, 05:25 PM	#8
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 2,095	There are actually a lot of nice used .40S&W handguns since so many law enforcement organizations use them. Obviously the GLOCK is the most common, but I have seen great deals on guns from HK, SIG and S&W in various LGSs. Hey Mystro love the Strider the one I have is built like a tank. __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

January 3, 2013, 05:39 PM	#9
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 3,491	Where the Glock is a great gun, I personally prefer my Springfield Armory XD40 Sub Compact for the additional security of the grip safety. __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

January 3, 2013, 06:03 PM	#10
thedudeabides Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2012 Posts: 503	The best 40 handgun is the P229. Period. Otherwise get a 10mm.

January 3, 2013, 06:06 PM	#11
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 2,402	My LGS has a Steyr M40-A1 for sale, $400 with two mags. I've always been oddly fascinated by the things, might be time to give it a serious look. __________________ Guns don't kill people. Apes with guns kill people! - Robin Williams

January 3, 2013, 06:08 PM	#12
ShootingNut Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,407	My favorite in .40 is the M&P series (full and compact), and my Beretta 96FS. All sweet shooting and very accurate, in spite of my age and eyes. I reload for the 9 up thru 45, so not current on what is on store shelves. Some put the .40 down, this I never understood. SN

January 3, 2013, 06:18 PM	#13
BrokenBottles Member Join Date: September 16, 2010 Location: The worst Lancaster in the U.S. Posts: 74	There's no "handgun" calibers at any stores near besides big5 who already has massively inflated prices, unless you're looking for 357sig, but even those are disappearing. __________________ "Lube the hell out of your Llama. Run it wet and it should be a decent pistol."

January 3, 2013, 06:46 PM	#14
Bond007 Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2005 Location: San Francisco, Ca Posts: 316	As an interesting note, my LGS's consignment shelves are always full of lightly-used pistols. Seems many new shooters pick them up and don't like the felt recoil compared to 9mm. So there's usually a consistent supply of ammo and quality firearms available. I'm a huge fan of 40S&W and 357Sig and keep going back-and-forth on which I prefer. My first pistol was a 40S&W and I loved the 180gr. I then fell for 357Sig's fireball and the newer 135/165 loads for 40S&W have me split again.

January 3, 2013, 06:51 PM	#15
The_Meteorologist Member Join Date: December 3, 2012 Location: Alaska Posts: 22	The story is very much the same here in Anchorage, AK. 9mm is completely out, but the shelves are stocked full of .40, and it is actually quite cheap. I picked up two boxes yesterday at a local grocery store for 16.99, cheapest I have seen it in a long time. Personally I am glad now that I went with both a 9mm and .40 given the complete shortage of 9mm here since Christmas. __________________ Sig Sauer SP 2022 .40 S&W Sig Sauer P938 Last edited by The_Meteorologist; January 3, 2013 at 07:53 PM.

January 3, 2013, 07:47 PM	#16
ShootingNut Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,407	Due to the factory ammo shortage, many are starting to reload. And, as a result we are finding shortages at times of our favorite powders and primers. But, reloading certainly is not for everyone. Sales of everything, including the guns, have gone nuts as we all know.

January 3, 2013, 07:57 PM	#17
Noreaster Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2011 Location: New England Posts: 968	Buy a 40S&W pistol and you can pick up a 357 Sig barrel for $100.00 and shoot 357 Sig if you want. 2 guns in 1!

January 3, 2013, 08:16 PM	#18
Mercenary Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2011 Location: NC Posts: 300	I just purchased a G27. Initially I thought that I should go with the G26 to compliment my G17, but then I thought about the last time I went to Wally World and like you said, 40 S&W was the only semi auto ammo left in the case! Now I can just get me a Lone Wolf barrel and some mags and have essentially a G26 but if 9mm ammo stays scarce, I'm slowly stocking up on 40 S&W. A little harder to do might I add for those who are on a tighter budget as it is roughly $5 per box of 50 rounds than that of equivalent 9mm. As for a 40 suggestions? G23 is great and for $100 and change you can have a 9mm conversion barrel. Another $100 will get you a 357 SIG barrel (this seems to be in stock in addition to 40 S&W at some LGS's). M&P was designed around a 40 S&W If you take a liking to the wifey's new SR9c, there's the SR40/40c also. __________________ "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson OWN: Glock 17 Gen 3, Glock 27 Gen 3 SOLD: M&P 9 FS, M&P Shield, KelTec PF9

January 3, 2013, 08:39 PM	#19
tgreening Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2011 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 204	Maybe it's a regional thing because around here the shelves are full to busting with just about anything in pistol caliber. 9, 40, 45, 357 you name it. Anything .223/5.56 is Unobtanium, and AK food is only a touch better.

January 3, 2013, 08:52 PM	#20
lefteye Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2006 Location: Iowa Posts: 528	At my Bass Pro Shop yesterday I was surprised at the full stock of .40 S&W ammo, especially compared to the next shelf above the .40 - empty except for five boxes of Rem. 9mm. My guess is the .40 is not very popular in my area. __________________ NRA Life Member - RMEF Life Member - Vietnam Vet

January 3, 2013, 10:08 PM	#21
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 2,402	Orders of 5.56 in bulk are backordered for months near me. Thanks for all the suggestions guys! Tomorrow will be find a 40SW day. __________________ Guns don't kill people. Apes with guns kill people! - Robin Williams

January 4, 2013, 12:06 AM	#22
Constantine Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 4,026	I only kept the issued Glock 22. It's a second gen. But couldn't part ways with that .40 and the Hk is hanging out around my house somewhere. __________________ Sáncte Míchael Archángele, defénde nos in proélio, cóntra nequítiam et insídias diáboli ésto præsídium. Ímperet ílli Déus, súpplices deprecámur: tuque, prínceps milítiæ cæléstis, Sátanam aliósque spíritus malígnos, qui ad perditiónem animárum pervagántur in múndo, divína virtúte, in inférnum detrúde. Ámen

January 4, 2013, 12:20 AM	#23
rock185 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2001 Location: Arizona Posts: 161	Haven't checked the local WalMart lately, but the last time we went through this, there was usually a couple boxes of .357 SIG and .25 ACP on the pistol ammo shelf. No .38 Spcl., .357, 9MM, .40 or .45 for about a year. There was always shotgun shells/birdshot available. They said they did get in the other calibers, but you had to be there when they put it out to get any. Almost a year after the 2008 election, I found, and bought, a box of .38 Spcl on the shelf at WalMart. The sales person was amazed that it was still there, as it had been put out several hours earlier. I suspect we're in the same situation again, only much more serious this time... __________________ COTEP 640, NRA Life

January 4, 2013, 02:14 PM	#24
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 9,952	I like the .40S&W round....and I have some Sigs chambered in it ...226's and 239's ..and an X-Five.../ and one 5" 1911.... ( and I reload - so I don't really pay attention to retail ammo availability )... I think this buying frenzy is probably temporary ....yes prices on ammo, etc are going up ...but if people will just relax a little ...it might settle down to something reasonable. I don't shoot the .40S&W caliber ...as much as I shoot 9mm, .45 acp or .357 mag..../ if I only had a 9mm...what calibers would I add for versatility : a. # 1 would be .45 acp.... b. # 2 would be .357 mag ... c. 3rd would be a .40 S&W... and if I thought handgun ammo was going to be in short supply long term....I'd buy a Dillon SDB press / as a good entry level press.

January 4, 2013, 02:36 PM	#25
LockedBreech Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2009 Location: Wyoming Posts: 2,288	.40 is my favorite round. The availability is a nice side benefit. Got about 800 rounds of American Eagle stored up right now.