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Old January 28, 2013, 04:36 PM   #1
chfields
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Unusual squib issue with reload

I am a novice reloader. We made 50 rounds and took them to the range for testing. We started out fine, the first few rounds ran as expected and were very accurate, then suddenly I heard a click, so I cleared the round and the bullet wasn't in the case and tried to load the next round and it wouldn't load. Ended up taking off the slide and checking the barrel and found the bullet lodged between the chamber and the barrel. The strange part is, the bullet was facing the chamber. It had somehow flipped itself around in the barrel. It also did the same thing with the guy I was shooting with. Any ideas wth happened??? I've never seen anything like it......

Thanks
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Old January 28, 2013, 05:24 PM   #2
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If a bullet goes into a chamber facing the correct way it simply doesn't have the room to turn itself around. I don't know what to say other than that. There is just not enough room inside the chamber for that to happen.

Or is this a riddle and you are reloading DEWC's . My best advice is to find why a full charge of powder isn't making it into the cases. That seems like the most important thing here.
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Old January 28, 2013, 05:38 PM   #3
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This is not a riddle, it did happen. I wish I had thought to take a pic before removing. It is the damnedest thing I have ever seen...and it happened 2x with different guns.......
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Old January 28, 2013, 05:51 PM   #4
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Chances are more likely than not that they bullets were seated backwards. It can happen with a progressive press, as well as a missed charge of powder.


When new to reloading with a progressive one has to be extra attentative. It is not a just follow the directions, put powder in the hopper, cases in the feeder, primers in the tube, bullets in the bullet feededer then start cranking. You have to watch what is going on. You should pay extra attention to the powder drop. Weigh every few charges to be sure it is not over, or unde charging. Check the finished rounds before boxing them. Look to make sure the bullet is facing the correct way. Fell the bottom make sure the primer is below flush. Run a finger nail from the bullet to the case to make sure the crimp is not too heavy, or not enough.


It takes attention. You may need to slow things down a bit, and work the press like a semi progressive loading one round at a time till you know without a doubt that things are working correctly. Then increase the volume you are doing. You have to keep an eye on the primer feed, and powder hopper. Failure do so will casue the problems you are describing.

Note I once by mistake loaded a 9mm hollow point backwards in a case on a single stage. I noticed it after I seated the bullet. There was a powder charge. I did test the round for the heck of it. It fired like it should have. It left a hole in the target as well.
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Old January 28, 2013, 06:18 PM   #5
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I'm pretty sure (90%) that they weren't in backwards, but it could be. I think you are right in us needing to slow down a little. We already check every tenth round and check evey round for flush primers. We are going to use a gun dedicated to testing so we don't mess up our regular guns. I will tell you, my heart was in my throat when I saw the bullet lodged in the barrel, I thought my barrel was done. After close inspection, everything seems good.

Thanks!
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Old January 28, 2013, 06:32 PM   #6
serf 'rett
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This one's a mystery.

There is no space for the bullet to reverse itself.

If the bullet was loaded to long, with the consequence of it sticking in the lands, then there would still be no space for the bullet to flip end over end.
Yet, I can’t conceive that you wouldn’t notice a reversed bullet when it was loaded in a magazine.

You say you “heard a click” yet you didn’t explain fully. Was the round in battery? Did the primer fire? When you opened the slide, did powder pour out?
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Old January 28, 2013, 07:03 PM   #7
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This happened not only to me, but my friend as well, thats why I think its highly unlikely we both loaded rounds that were backwards. His went bang, but he couldn't open the slide. It took some time and effort to get the slide open and get the case out. The bullet was then backwards in the chamber and we had to use a rod to knock it out. Mine was a little stranger, I was shooting fine and then the gun went click when I fired, I pulled the hammer back and it clicked again. thats when I racked the slide to put in another round and it ejected the empty case, didn't notice any powder, and it wouldn't feed. I tried several different rounds but none would feed, thats when I took it apart and found the bullet backwards in the barrel. I don't remember it making any noise but i could be wrong......
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Old January 28, 2013, 07:44 PM   #8
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im guessing you really need to thank the gods that it wouldnt load the next round...if it had and you fired dont think good things would have happened....just got my first reload setup...went with the advice of a hand loader that actually does it for a living. just a single stage lee classic..he sold it the dies for 45acp 20 rds brass n bullets 1/4lb powder and 100 primers.for 45 dollars. and told me to come over or call and he would come over and help me. only asked for 20 of the bullets and brass to practice and train on. that way i dont have alot of screwed up bullets made. going to take this slow till i feel comfortable doing it.
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Old January 28, 2013, 08:47 PM   #9
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I suppose MAYBE (as in <1% chance) that you barely seated the bullet into the case, the bullet hit the bottom of the feed ramp on its way to the chamber, got ripped out, flipped around and pushed in backwards by the empty case....actually after typing that, I don't think it's possible.


Be careful dude, you want cheap and consistant, not quantity and missing digets.

Sent from my CZ85 Combat
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Old January 28, 2013, 09:07 PM   #10
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I don't think thats possible as we mic'd each bullet due a problem with the bullets being loose in the case (we hadn't properly calibrated the sizing die....Yes, I am very fortunate it didn't lodge further up the barrel or I could have blown up my gun....
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Old January 28, 2013, 09:16 PM   #11
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I do not believe it is possible to flip the bullet in any normal chamber. There is 0 room to do this.

You had to have seated them backwards. No other explanation.

Your new to reloading and missed a step. Check each round.

Check your work. Double check your work.
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Old January 28, 2013, 09:22 PM   #12
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you must have loaded two bullets into the same case... first one went in pointing toward the primer... then you seated another bullet onto that one...

pressure would have been really high (which is probably why the other fellow's slide locked up on him, the case was "ironed" really good against the chamber wall)...

...but that's the only explanation I can think of. You had enough pressure to get the first bullet down the barrel, but the one that was trying to follow it backwards through the bore ended up sticking.

I'd scope those barrels out really well... make sure you don't have a bulge...

Dan
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Old January 28, 2013, 09:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
then you seated another bullet onto that one...

pressure would have been really high
He said he heard a click. No bang normally means no powder or low powder. A high pressure load would have a bang.
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Old January 28, 2013, 09:41 PM   #14
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there probably was a slight "bang"... he said he wasn't sure.

since it happened also to his friend's gun, it seems all but certain they loaded a couple rounds with two bullets in the case... note also, he said they were having trouble with the sizing die, making cases too big(?)... or something... anyway, he said bullets were slipping into the cases too easily... this could have the potential to let a bullet slip way down into the case, with enough room to seat another on top of it.

There may have been little to no powder in his shell... but in his friend's, whose slide stuck... that sounds like an over-pressure load for sure.

They would have easily noted a loaded round with the bullet in backwards when they loaded the magazines...

...so I vote for two bullets in each case being the answer to this mystery...

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Old January 28, 2013, 09:52 PM   #15
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What round are we even talking about? I see the OP has a CZ in his sig. If these are 9mm rounds I would love to see 2 bullets loaded in that case?

chfields, what are we talking about here? What caliber, bullet make and weight and powder charge?
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Old January 28, 2013, 09:56 PM   #16
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I am 100% positive I didn't load 2 bullets in 1 case, we are pretty careful. We will be even more careful in the future. Its possible we loaded them backwards but I don't think we did. We will be triple checking everyone from here on out though....
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Old January 28, 2013, 09:57 PM   #17
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What were you loading?
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Old January 28, 2013, 10:05 PM   #18
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It would be impossible to turn a bullet inside a chamber or barrel without destroying the piece. You simply had a bullet seated backwards over no powder charge. I've done it, once.
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Old January 28, 2013, 10:17 PM   #19
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I guess it would help to know what cartridge, and what bullet you were using...

and I don't understand this: "I don't think thats possible as we mic'd each bullet due a problem with the bullets being loose in the case (we hadn't properly calibrated the sizing die..."
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Old January 28, 2013, 10:20 PM   #20
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I loaded a 9MM case with I belive was a 115 gr hornady hollow point using accurate #2 with 4.2gr. While I don't think we loaded 2 backwards that is far more likely than loading 2 bullets in 1 case. I don't even think you can load 2 bullets in 1 9MM case. I'll have to check that next time I do reloading.
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Old January 28, 2013, 10:24 PM   #21
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Quote:
and I don't understand this: "I don't think thats possible as we mic'd each bullet due a problem with the bullets being loose in the case (we hadn't properly calibrated the sizing die..."
We were having an issue where after we seated the bullet, if we pushed down on the bullet it would slip half way into the case. We used a micrometer to measure the bullets OAL and it would sometime "squeeze' the bullet down into the case. We have an assortment of cases so i don;t know which one we used on those 2 rounds.
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Old January 28, 2013, 10:31 PM   #22
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I think you could possibly fit 2 115g Hornady XTP's in a case but, I would think it would not make the OAL of the rest? I would also think that if this were the case you would have seen a ruptured case and possible damage to the gun?

Do you have the bullet feeder on your LNL AP?
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Old January 28, 2013, 10:33 PM   #23
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chfields,

You say how careful you were but you had two potentially catastrophic mishaps in 50 rounds.

That's a major, major problem.

If you had managed to load a round behind those stuck bullets and pulled the trigger, we'd probably be talking about how you had shrapnel removed from your face and surgery to repair your hand.

It is absolutely impossible that the bullet flipped around in the chamber. No way, no how. If that bullet was backwards, it STARTED backwards. It did not flip around.

I know I'm sounding like a jerk right now but I'm trying to save your gun, hands and face. Whatever you guys are doing, you need to stop, reread a good instruction manual, like The ABCs of Reloading, and revamp your process to eliminate these issues.

2 major mistakes in 50 rounds is a failure rate that is literally thousands of times higher than careful reloaders would have, many of whom have loaded 10s of thousands of rounds without a single incident... and you're doing it at a time when most reloaders are typically extra careful and LESS likely to make mistakes, before "comfort" sets in.

PLEASE restructure your process to eliminate whatever is causing these mistakes.
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Old January 28, 2013, 10:41 PM   #24
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the thing is... a single bullet loaded backwards, which had enough powder behind it to go bang (as the friend's gun did), would go on down the barrel and exit...

You said you "think" it was a Hornady 115 HP? You're really not sure what bullets you were loading? Not trying to be combative... but that's bad juju... :
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Old January 28, 2013, 10:44 PM   #25
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really?...more than likely the loose bullet just turned over when you racked it back to remove the spent (or so you thought) case.
or this is just a story.
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