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Old January 28, 2013, 09:32 AM   #1
RamItOne
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What state has the most in depth CC course requirements

I'm only familiar with Fl and Tx,

IIRC Texas, figure out how to get an entire weekend off when you work retail, 10 hous of class (5hrs per day), 50 questions, 50 rounds at various distances and must have a min target score.

Florida- go to the gun show, sit down for an hour next to two hooters girls (in uniform) who were taking the class. Instructor was nice just extremely basic stuff. Think the test was pretty much open book and maybe 10-15 questions. Then for the shooting qual you go into a small horse trailer, pickup a umarex p99 .22, load, fire at a target 3 feet from you once.

I've got mixed feelings on it, I wouldn't want the gvt to be able to get their hands on making the course req very restrictive with the sole purpose of thwarting citizens from acquiring a license.
On the other hand I don't want it to be - muzzle=bad, unloaded=safe and that's the course.

If you could when you reply name the State you think in the title, would just be easier to see.

BTW I have a 101.8F fever and Im still TFL'ing pardon any typos
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Old January 28, 2013, 12:08 PM   #2
HarrySchell
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CA requires 16 hours, NM 15. Lots more range time than TX (which I am familiar with).
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Old January 28, 2013, 12:20 PM   #3
ScottRiqui
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Well, it's not Virginia. As far as I can tell, there's no requirement for range time at all, and there are a bunch of ways to "demonstrate competence with a handgun":

Documentation of Competence with a Handgun

The applicant shall demonstrate competence with a handgun by one of the following:

Completing a hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries or a similar agency of another state.

Completing any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course.

Completing any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law-enforcement agency, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Department of Criminal Justice Services or a similar agency of another state.

Completing any law-enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement.

Presenting evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition approved by the Department of State Police or current military service or proof of an honorable discharge from any branch of the armed services.

Obtaining or previously having held a license to carry a firearm in this Commonwealth or a locality thereof, unless such license has been revoked for cause.

Completing any firearms training or safety course or class, including an electronic, video, or on-line course, conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association-certified firearms instructor.

Completing any governmental police agency firearms training course and qualifying to carry a firearm in the course of normal police duties.
Completing any other firearms training that the Virginia Department of State Police deems adequate.
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Old January 28, 2013, 12:23 PM   #4
jason_iowa
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Iowa's is pathetic. 4 hour class no range time required. To renew the new 5 year CCW which may require shooting.
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Old January 28, 2013, 12:29 PM   #5
sigcurious
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Nevada

8 hours of class, written test and shooting requirement. The shooting requirements for semis(revolvers) are 6(5) rounds at 3 yards, 12(10) rounds at 5 yards and 12(10) at 7 yards, no time limits, any stance/grip. You can qualify with either or both. All shot at a B-27 target or similar. The test and shooting are pass/fail, 70% being the cut off.
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Old January 28, 2013, 01:16 PM   #6
2ndsojourn
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In New Jersey, you can take all the training you possibly can and you still can't get a permit to carry.
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Old January 28, 2013, 03:09 PM   #7
Coyote Blue
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Alaska,Arizona,Vermont and Wyoming (for WY residents) are the best. Just strap on a gun and carry ,whether you be from Florida, Berlin,Shanghai or Timbucktu.

You know,the "shall not be infringed" course.
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Old January 28, 2013, 03:10 PM   #8
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamItOne
I've got mixed feelings on it, I wouldn't want the gvt to be able to get their hands on making the course req very restrictive with the sole purpose of thwarting citizens from acquiring a license.
On the other hand I don't want it to be - muzzle=bad, unloaded=safe and that's the course.
A number of states (including my home state) accept/require the NRA "Basic Pistol" class. That's currently an 8-hour class, and requires a live fire exercise of a minimum of 50 rounds (that's a fairly recent change).

Other states, such as Pennsylvania, require only a background check. I don't know of any statistics showing that Pennsylvania has a significantly higher per capita incidence of negligent discharges by CCW holders than Texas, so I'm forced to conclude that Texas is simply gouging Texans by unnecessarily requiring a more expensive and complicated qualification than what's needed to accomplish the purpose.

I admittedly don't know what all 50 states (okay, 49, since Vermont doesn't require permits or even issue them as an option) require, but Texas (my old home state) is BY FAR the most onerous of those I have encountered.

And I don't know of any other state that requires you to shoot the qualifying course of fire again each time you renew your permit.
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Old January 28, 2013, 03:32 PM   #9
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They should however. You're being tested to demonstrate competency of the laws and your ability to handle a firearm. I agree on Texas priceyness though. Frankly for that amount of bucks I'm required to pay, I want more bang for it.

In an enlightened Zincwarrior universe you would be required to enter one IDPA or other shooting competition, or at least the cool shoot-em up gallery that Dirty Harry went through in Magnum Force. Come on, I'm shelling out some cash here. Make it worth my while!
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Old January 28, 2013, 03:49 PM   #10
bt380
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Washington State: Pay your fee and fill out the paper work. They send it off to the cloud. If it doesn't come back w/ felon, etc, then you have your conceal carry permit.
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Old January 28, 2013, 03:53 PM   #11
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Ohio requires 12 hours of instruction, at least 2 of which must be on the range.
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Old January 28, 2013, 10:12 PM   #12
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zincwarrior
They should however. You're being tested to demonstrate competency of the laws and your ability to handle a firearm. I agree on Texas priceyness though. Frankly for that amount of bucks I'm required to pay, I want more bang for it.
Once again, there is no single answer. I have carry permits from four different states. NONE of them in any way tests competence in laws, and their interest in firearms handling is only for safety. Florida, for example, specifically states that an applicant must submit proof of firearms (not "handgun") safety training, and FL accepted my then 40-year-old DD-214 (which showed only the M14 rifle, even though I had actually qualified with a number of other weapons at various duty stations) as satisfaction of their requirement.

New Hampshire and Pennsylvania both accepted the fact I have a home state permit as proof of handgun safety competence.

Not to belabor the point unnecessarily, but where in the Second Amendment does it say anything about "... the right of the People (who pass a test) to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"? My version must be defective, because my copy doesn't mention classes as a prerequisite to exercising a right.
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Old January 28, 2013, 10:26 PM   #13
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PA

Pay your $20, in most counties. walk out with your LTCF. Philly makes you wait the full 45 days allowed. Last time I looked, PA was a bit below the ave for ND/AD rate. besides philly quite a few of the larger cities areas hassle you more. rural areas are usually walk in walk out. except for Philly the License is issued by the sheriff.
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Old January 28, 2013, 10:28 PM   #14
zincwarrior
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Quote:
Not to belabor the point unnecessarily, but where in the Second Amendment does it say anything about "... the right of the People (who pass a test) to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"? My version must be defective, because my copy doesn't mention classes as a prerequisite to exercising a right.
It doesn't. But I'm paying an inordinate amount of money for my CHL. If I have to pay it, I was some wizz bang for my cash!
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:07 PM   #15
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May gosh,this is a gun board? Come back,Shane!

Quote:
Not to belabor the point unnecessarily, but where in the Second Amendment does it say anything about "... the right of the People (who pass a test) to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"? My version must be defective, because my copy doesn't mention classes as a prerequisite to exercising a right.
AB got it right.
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Old January 29, 2013, 11:31 AM   #16
adamc
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Here in Connecticut I needed the NRA 8+ hour class+test & range time for my
safety certificate. Then came the tons of paperwork, fingerprints
( which had to be redone 4 times) more paperwork, to finally obtain a temporary town issued permit. Then the temporary permit some more paperwork and
a trip to the CT State Police HQ to stand in long lines to finally get the CT pistol permit.. My elapsed time 5 months ( Aug to end of Dec 2012)
and not to mention a bunch of checks $$ for the town, and the State.

Firearms hunting permit ( for both son & I) two 9 hour days with a test, range time, with proof of competence (demos for the teachers) in safety and range & gun handling. about 100 people in the class

The Archery class was 9 hours , test, and proof of competence (demos for the teachers) in safety and range time & Bow handling. about 100 people in the class


After all of that ..
A trip to the town hall clerk, to buy the actual Connecticut 2012 & 2013 hunting & fishing licenses. and some checks $$ of course to the town

Between all the NRA & state classes we obtained a huge pile of printed info , books, and pamphlets of IMO valuable information .
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Old January 29, 2013, 12:25 PM   #17
lefteye
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Iowa's law is similar to Virginia's law:

Quote:
724.9 Firearm training program.
1. An applicant shall demonstrate knowledge of firearm safety by any of the following
means:
a. Completion of any national rifle association handgun safety training course.
b. Completion of any handgun safety training course available to the general public
offered by a law enforcement agency, community college, college, private or public
institution or organization, or firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the
national rifle association or the department of public safety or another state’s department of
public safety, state police department, or similar certifying body.
c. Completion of any handgun safety training course offered for security guards,
investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of a law enforcement or
security enforcement agency approved by the department of public safety.
d. Completion of small arms training while serving with the armed forces of the United
States as evidenced by any of the following:
(1) For personnel released or retired from active duty, possession of an honorable
discharge or general discharge under honorable conditions.
(2) For personnel on active duty or serving in one of the national guard or reserve
components of the armed forces of the United States, possession of a certificate of completion
of basic training with a service record of successful completion of small arms training and
qualification.
e. Completion of a law enforcement agency firearms training course that qualifies a peace
officer to carry a firearm in the normal course of the peace officer’s duties.
2. Evidence of qualification under this section may be documented by any of the following:
a. A photocopy of a certificate of completion or any similar document indicating
completion of any course or class identified in subsection 1.
b. An affidavit from the instructor, school, organization, or group that conducted or taught
a course or class identified in subsection 1 attesting to the completion of the course or class
by the applicant.
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Old January 29, 2013, 01:03 PM   #18
Tom Servo
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Quote:
Not to belabor the point unnecessarily, but where in the Second Amendment does it say anything about "... the right of the People (who pass a test) to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"? My version must be defective, because my copy doesn't mention classes as a prerequisite to exercising a right.
Please....we've been through this. There is an abundant history of distrust and acceptance of regulation for the act of carrying a concealed weapon in this country.

Does the RKBA extend outside the home? Yes, but most state constitutions have provisions regulating it, and those have stood for over 200 years in most cases. One would have a hard time arguing that such a thing as so-called "constitutional carry" really exists, except perhaps in a militia context.

The subject of this thread is in the title. If we want to debate whether it's a good idea for states to mandate training, start another thread.
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Old January 29, 2013, 01:20 PM   #19
adamc
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In the old days firearms were a way of life.
Guys like Minute Men, ( Insert historical colonial leader here) Paul Revere, etc..
Used firearms to provide food, etc. they were smart enough not
to blow their heads off ( or anyone else's)

Was there ever a statistic of firearms safety in those days ?
I remember reading "April Morning" as a kid, and the Dad teaching the proper use
of the family shotgun/musket to the son.

hence the 2A when written IMO reflected the social times

* if this post offends please remove *
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Old January 29, 2013, 04:50 PM   #20
osbornk
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What I did in Virginia was "Completing any firearms training or safety course or class, including an electronic, video, or on-line course, conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association-certified firearms instructor." I signed up for an online course for $19.99. Took me about 15 minutes to read through the entire course but I could have passed the course without reading anything. Printed out my certificate, filled out a form with $50 and took it to the Clerk of the Court's office. In three weeks, my CC permit was in my mailbox.
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Old January 29, 2013, 05:09 PM   #21
alex0535
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Georgia

To get my concealed carry permit here in Georgia I go to the county courthouse, fill out some paperwork, give them $30 cash. Then I go to the county detention center to be fingerprinted and give them $50 cash.

I am not sure whether it is mailed or printed off then and there. Probably mailed to me a short time later.

Its a pretty easy process to get your CCP here in Georgia. No class is required, I guess they trust that if you are going to carry concealed here, you know how to use your firearm responsibly.
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Old January 29, 2013, 05:19 PM   #22
hermannr
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WA and PA have no government mandated training requirement. Not a prohibited person? Fill out the brief app, Plop down $52.25 ($36 renewal) in WA, $20 in PA, and wait from 0-30 days, but no more than 30 days. (unless you are a non-resident)
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Old January 29, 2013, 05:46 PM   #23
bowserb
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Texas: It's about the Benjamins

I've been through the initial license and the renewal in Texas. The classroom for the initial license was all day--a long day--but frankly I've learned more from just reading on my own the State of Texas material. At the end of the day was the range test. In my class there were a few people with very little experience and a couple who had not previously shot a handgun. Yet everyone passed the shooting test. Every single person.

When I went for my renewal, the half day class was plenty. A couple of us had questions--about 3006 and other no-carry places. At noon the range test, at least two guys there had not fired a gun since their last CHL range test. One really old guy (no offense, I'm 66 myself) had a Glock with a 30-rd mag sticking out the bottom. The way he was swinging that thing around scared the heck out of me (and the instructor). At the first shooting station (maybe 3 yards?), he (the old guy) remarked about my shooting "Hey! Somebody's been practicing!" The test is so easy that halfway through, the instructor told me quietly "You already have enough points. You're just shooting for fun now." I am not an expert shot.

My point? There's a fat fee to the State of Texas, a charge for the CHL class, and a fingerprint company collecting some cash. Is the license about safety, handgun competence, or what? It's about money, of course? Lots of money to lots of people. I used to be a CPA (now retired status). It required a $210 annual license and 40 hours of continuing education. It's about money.

If gun owners would agree to an annual gun safety awareness tax (I won't) to the federal government of $50 per handgun or bolt action rifle and $100 per semi-auto rifle, all the gun banning talk would end. Prohibition went away (even though it took another constitutional amendment) and became a major revenue source for all kinds of taxing authorities, even though alcohol and drunks kill more people than M-16's did in Vietnam--and those rifles had full auto switches.

At least that's what I think.
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Old January 29, 2013, 07:02 PM   #24
Dragline45
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Massachusetts requires 8 hours if I remember correctly with an open book written test at the end. We did a bunch of live fire practice but there was no scoring of any kind. I took the course through an NRA instructor, the good thing about the NRA course is it is recognized in all 50 states. Meaning if you move to another state you will not have to retake a course to apply for a license. Cost an extra $20 compared to others but it was worth it IMO.

Quote:
Not to belabor the point unnecessarily, but where in the Second Amendment does it say anything about "... the right of the People (who pass a test) to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"? My version must be defective, because my copy doesn't mention classes as a prerequisite to exercising a right.
Not everyone grew up in a gun family where there fathers or grandfathers taught them to shoot since they were able to pick up a rifle. Would you rather there be gun owners out there without any formal firearm saftey training of any kind?

Last edited by Dragline45; January 29, 2013 at 07:09 PM.
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Old January 29, 2013, 07:58 PM   #25
Closing The Gap
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Michigan CPL

Requires 8 hours of range/classroom time including time with the lawyers. You currently have to qualify at 7 yds with 30 rounds. However, as of May 1st the requirement is going up to 92 rounds.

On another note they also did away with pistol purchase permits and went to a straight NICS only system. As well as making rifle purchases available to out of state ID holders as of 12/18/12.
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