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Old January 4, 2013, 04:25 PM   #1
SoCalNoMore
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Open letter to gun store owners

I am dismayed at the choices some firearms/gun dealers are making right now with only a "report" of congress acting on a change to how gun ownership will be changed. I will NOT do business with any corporation or independent store that is obviously changing their policy to appease the anti-gun group.

I ask that my fellow true Americans and believers in 2nd amendment do the same. We all know that in the U.S. money is power and as individuals we all the right to spend our hard earned money as we please. I choose not to spend my money with companies like the above mentioned.

My personal story:

3 weeks ago I bought a rifle for tournament shooting; my first rifle as this is/was going to be my new hobby. Soon after my purchase "news" broke out from the liberals that guns needed to be banned. As we all know, panic buying set in and the shelves are empty. Worse yet, unscrupulous store owners jacked up the prices of all AR related items and high cap mags for handguns. I thought I had found a stand up store owner in Chucks Guns- Jupiter Florida when I went in and asked to by a G17 hi cap mag. He said “I have 5 but to be fair I will only sell one to a person”. I said I agree with that policy and happily paid is moderately inflated price of $35 for one mag. He said come back in a few weeks and if I have more I will sell you another. That brings me to today (1-4-13). I go in to ask if he has any PMAGS for my new AR and he says yes, for $85!!! I said a polite no thank you and asked about the Glock mags. The woman goes in the back and gets one, asks Chuck for the price and he states $75. My issue is not so much with this guy over inflating a price, but it does peeve me that I followed his policy, did as told and then I come back to a price 400% over MSRP.

Unfortunately for him I was shopping for a reputable store to support my hobby and that of 6 other people. Chucks Guns in Jupiter will not be getting our several thousands of dollars per year, nor our recommendation to hundreds of other shooters each year that we meet at matches in the South Florida area.

It’s a shame that the companies that we support are so quick to "stick it" to us when there are rumors of major changes.
We will be hearing of more companies large and small that are going to stop selling firearms/ammo and accessories an over hyped fallacy that guns kill people. As any intelligent person knows, this is simply not the case.

Fellow gunners, it’s your money. Spend it wisely.
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Old January 4, 2013, 05:47 PM   #2
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conversely, they might also be in panic mode and figuring that they are about to close shop, so they are trying to get a year's worth of income in a few months.
Life ain't easy for no one.
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Old January 4, 2013, 06:10 PM   #3
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I think it's the consumers of guns that have caused the shortages and price hikes.
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Old January 4, 2013, 06:32 PM   #4
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I think it's the consumers of guns that have caused the shortages and price hikes.
yep. ironic that people are now complaining about the cost of goods being so expensive when they're the ones directly responsible for it. panic makes people do foolish things
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Old January 4, 2013, 10:39 PM   #5
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I agree that the owners who price gouge are terribly wrong and will pay the price long term for their short term greed. That being said, is it possible that his supplier tripled his price to the gun store owner for the same reason and that his markup is the same? Just wondering.... Sometimes we are too quick to judge.
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Old January 4, 2013, 10:42 PM   #6
Tom Servo
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Some shop owners are going to find themselves in a tricky situation over the next few weeks. Without inventory, they don't have cash flow.

So, the choice is to either raise prices or limit supply. It's the free market at work, but I agree that there are limits.

I remember the silliness that ensued in 1994, and there was a great deal of it following the 2008 and 2012 elections. The gun culture isn't just a market; it's a culture, and one with a long memory.
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Old January 5, 2013, 09:08 AM   #7
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Wow! It looks like knowledge about freedom's greatest tool and free-market economics are not synonymous. Even the most basic law of supply and demand seems to be lost on some people. "Price gouging"? Please define this socialist term, if you can.
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Old January 5, 2013, 09:30 AM   #8
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At this point in time I doubt many gun shop owners are looking much at the internet.
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Old January 5, 2013, 10:05 AM   #9
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I was in Cabela's yesterday and the prices on ammo hadn't really changed, as a matter of fact some were on sale. There was a 10 box limit on ammunition which isn't really that unreasonable and the shelves were pretty full of all calibers. Sure there were some gaps but I was able to pick up a few boxes of Independence .556 for $9.99. I scoped out the the gun selection and the displays were full except for the AR-15 and there were a few of them still on display. I couldn't see the prices on the ARs but the handguns on display seemed to be about the same price.
What I do find curious is how the ammo that seems to be in the shortest supply in any store I have been in is 22LR. Why is everyone cleaning off the shelves of this little rimfire caliber, especially the bulk packs? I have not heard of anyone talking about banning 22LR bullets, why the panic buying?
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Old January 5, 2013, 11:16 AM   #10
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bbqbob51,
See this...
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=510875
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Old January 6, 2013, 12:25 PM   #11
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" Worse yet, unscrupulous store owners jacked up the prices of all AR related items and high cap mags for handguns."

There is nothing unscrupulous about a store raising prices. It happens everyday. I imagine they'll need to spend those extra bucks when it comes times to restock.

Thanks for stopping by. Come again.

John
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Old January 6, 2013, 01:44 PM   #12
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It's mostly everyones panic buying that have caused price increases. That being said, I have seen one instance of what I consider price gouging.

It was a 420 round case of XM855 at a gun shop for $400, I told the employees that the current demand did not justify their price on this case of ammunition and walked out never to return. I then went to another shop and saw the same case for $220, about $20 higher that the cases I bought a few months ago.
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Old January 6, 2013, 01:53 PM   #13
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conversely, they might also be in panic mode and figuring that they are about to close shop, so they are trying to get a year's worth of income in a few months.
Life ain't easy for no one.
Getting a years worth of income in a couple weeks has been done by a few shops around here, but it has been done without jacking their prices up.

The guns on the floor sold out, and the guns in stock in the back room were brought out and promptly sold out. Some of these had been in stock for well over a year.

Clearly the owner of this shop has a bood business sense and had more than a years worth of inventory that sold, I have no doubt that whatever guns he buys to replace his stock will be at a higher cost due to demand, which will be reflected in the price tag. The prices in this shop were not the best around but were generally less than MSRP, so I'll call them an honest business and will continue to shop there.
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Old January 6, 2013, 02:09 PM   #14
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People who own and run gun stores aren't necessarily level headed. In california in 2000 I was griping about arnie the rino getting ready to sign the 50 cal ban. A clerk behind the counter thought it was a good idea.

The groundskeeper at my gun club thinks handguns should be outlawed.

My uncle, a hunter, keeps voting for the gun grabbers. He says he votes for them because the commies (my word, not his) are for the working man.

I've concluded that people are just mostly ....... stupid.
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Old January 6, 2013, 02:24 PM   #15
Brian Pfleuger
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Imagine a 4 corner intersection with a gun store on each corner. Imagine that they all sell 30 round mags. One at $20, one $30, one $40, one $50.

The $20 and $30 places sell out, the $40 only sells a couple, the $50 none...

Ask yourself, who sets the price? Hm?

Sorry. It's the buyer.

Seller can only suggest. Buyers pay. No buyer, no price. The only thing a seller can do to entice buyers is LOWER the price.

Buyers set prices. Free market. Capitalism. Freedom. There's no moral consideration, at all. Prices are not right or wrong.
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Old January 6, 2013, 05:55 PM   #16
gaseousclay
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Quote:
My uncle, a hunter, keeps voting for the gun grabbers. He says he votes for them because the commies (my word, not his) are for the working man.
your uncle isn't a one-issue voter....that hardly makes him stupid.

I could never figure out why so many people supported Romney when he actually passed an AWB into law
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Old January 7, 2013, 02:09 AM   #17
FoghornLeghorn
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your uncle isn't a one-issue voter....
And therein lies the irony. He lost out all around. At least he could have saved his guns if he (and the rest of them) would have gotten with the program back when it could have made a difference.
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Old January 7, 2013, 08:38 AM   #18
gaseousclay
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And therein lies the irony. He lost out all around. At least he could have saved his guns if he (and the rest of them) would have gotten with the program back when it could have made a difference.
he still has his guns and no laws have changed yet. I seriously doubt any new gun regulations will pass through congress. but as I said before, I still don't see how supporting Romney would've helped gun owners and further 2A rights -- Romney actually passed an AWB in Massachussets.
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Old January 7, 2013, 10:21 AM   #19
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Buyers set prices. Free market. Capitalism. Freedom. There's no moral consideration, at all. Prices are not right or wrong.
Respectfully disagree. There is no moral requirement, but there are moral considerations. It is basic greed we're taking about.

I can understand increased pricing based on wholesale prices rising (next round of AR shipments), but existing inventory was bought and paid for. 100% or more mark-ups were not justified by the financial burden of the store.

These little LGSs that so decry the big-box stores and lament the lack of customer loyalty are the first to screw the customer when they get a chance. My Cabelas in AZ sold out on ammo and ARs, but they didn't inflate their prices to do it.

So while LGSs are well within their rights to inflate prices and hide behind "supply and demand", I don't beleive they have a leg to stand on when they complain that I take my business to a big-box store or some on-line retailer after this crisis has passed.
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Old January 7, 2013, 10:34 AM   #20
Brian Pfleuger
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Greed doesn't set prices, buyers do and panic does.

Besides, what about buyer greed? Isn't it greedy to want to buy stuff at the lowest possible price and deprive the seller of possible profit?

It's a free market. Sellers couldn't set high prices if buyers weren't willing to pay them. The products would sit on the shelves. Buyers set prices. Sellers respond.

There are no moral considerations on pricing "want" items. None. Zero. The buyer pays what the buyer is willing to pay, not a cent more.

If there is any greed driving up prices, it is buyer greed driving up demand which always drives up prices on fixed supply.

Free market principles at work. We should rejoice. It is every bit as much a part of freedom as speech, religion and arms.

The demonization of it is a socialist/communist concept.
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Old January 7, 2013, 11:10 AM   #21
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During the gas price spikes in 2008, a Dutch friend of mine who has US permanent resident status pointed out that it could have been much worse - we could have had price control, like the Netherlands had.
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Old January 7, 2013, 11:34 AM   #22
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Managerial Accounting 101:

Business do not sell products base on the their cost of that product, but based on the cost of replacing that product that is sold.

Inventory: Base your sales on what it will cost to replace inventory.

Its simple Supply and Demand.

Another way I look at it as a consumer. What it cost now vs what it cost when I started reloading.

I was talking to my old shooting partner from when I first got into competition.

We were discussing spending .80 - 1.00 per hundred primers compared to spending $4 plus today. Sounds like a big jump until I figured out I can afford $4 primers better today then I could $1 primers way back then.

Hang in there, we can ride this out.
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Old January 7, 2013, 12:05 PM   #23
OPC
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Quote:
Managerial Accounting 101:

Business do not sell products base on the their cost of that product, but based on the cost of replacing that product that is sold.

Inventory: Base your sales on what it will cost to replace inventory.
Interesting tid-bit I was unaware of. Thanks for that.
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Old January 7, 2013, 12:34 PM   #24
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@ TOM: You hit the nail on the head; I hope all of the smaller gun store owners are not buying new Mustangs or that second home just yet because inventory is going to be a major problem.

The largest gun store in the Chicago area is starting to have that exact issue. No PMAGS to speak of, running low on all other types of mags. They only have one model of Bushmaster AR in stock, a couple of FN-2000's, HK93 clones, SKS's, AK clones etc. Semi auto "tactical" shotguns are mostly gone, pumps are starting to go. The "High Cap" pistol shelves (Sig's, Glocks, M&P's etc) were starting to really thin. I picked up a PPQ on December 27th from them, a store employee told me before the panic they had 4000 guns of various types on hand. At the time they had about 1000.

The only thing that seems to be on hand in "pre panic" levels are revolvers, rimfire guns and 1911's.

If it really does take people like Colt, S&W, Ruger etc a year to catch up like they say it will it might be a long time before sales are back to "Normal".

Not to be political, but considering that the President has now stated gun control is his priority even if nothing is passed this go round, from here on out every single mass shooting or mention of a gun bill has the serious and likely potential to spark panic buying. It may be until after the 2014 mid term electons before things begin to calm down.
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Old January 7, 2013, 12:58 PM   #25
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Brian Pfleuger hit the nail right on the head with this one. Panicked buyers who were caught unprepared, see it as a way to cash in, or just want to buy something that has a possibility to be banned, have caused the price hikes. I know it gets out of hand sometimes, but as a customer you have the right to refuse the price and try to buy elsewhere.

I purchased a Hk MR556A1 the morning of the tragedy. I paid way below retail. I was hounded by someone (at my LGS)that was caught off guard and wanted to buy an AR. I continuously told him, it was not for sale. Finally to get him off my back I told him if he wanted it to bring me $6000(roughly double the MSRP). His cursing over the price made my day. He thought that I should sell it at what I paid or less just because he "needed" one. I did however turn around and sell my DDV4 to one of my friends. I sold it to him for $1200, but I really didn't shoot it anymore and knew he had wanted it for over a year. Things will most likely settle down, it might take another 4 years or so..lol.
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