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Old January 2, 2013, 05:42 PM   #1
TunnelRat
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So I Traded My P30

Hi all,
As a start, this is not meant as a bash against HK. I am by all accounts an HK fanboy and the majority of my experience with their products has been positive.

So why did I trade it? A few reasons that I wanted to share with any prospective buyers. My experience is just one data point as always:

Comfort
People rave about how comfortable the P30 is. My response? Meh. It surely has enough backstraps and sidestraps to sink a battleship. But honestly no combination of them ever really felt good to me, or at least not any better than a number of pistols currently on the market. It's very thin front to back at the top of the grip and the majority of the attachments just add width to the sides. Even the backstraps just make the back thicker (more of a bulge). I never felt like my finger indexed in a good position on the trigger as a result.

The texture seems like a plus in terms of grippiness. But after a thousand rounds and a lot of carrying the texture had worn smooth. It was no grippier than if it was flat polymer.

The finger grooves drove me nuts. I see no reason for them to be on a modern pistol. That's what Hogue grips are for and I wouldn't want one to begin with. Certainly there is no one size fits all finger size, and on a pistol that tries to be as customizable as possible forcing you to use finger grooves seems counter productive.

To be honest a Walther P99 or the HK P2000 is leaps and bounds more comfortable in the hand IMO.

Reliability*
The asterisk is there for a reason, as this isn't really a reliability problem per se, maybe more of a function problem. The "break-in" it is becoming known for, more often than not the long slide versions. Now I'm a reasonable guy. I can expect a few hundred rounds to work out some kinks. But when I have 600 rds through a gun and it is still ejecting into my torso, what gives (and a lot of that being hotter ammo, not Wally World stuff)? Locking the slide back for a week worked, but come on, that's a bit silly. Why does the recoil spring need to be that stiff when I haven't had that issue with a USP compact, P2000, or HK45c? To handle hot ammo? Come on, a USP compact is like a tank and it ejects like a Swiss watch. I call HK and ask them about it and they say I must be limp wristing. Interesting, an issue I have never had with any other HK pistol. But they say those other HK pistols are different. Crazy given that the P30 and P2000 come with the same manual.

What amuses me the most are the apologists. To see them lob the same excuses as Glock fans with the recent Gen 4s is hilarious. I won't tolerate it from a Glock, and I don't tolerate it from a HK.

Form Factor
The standard P30 is a weird duck size wise. Almost the full size grip of a Glock 17 with the barrel length of a Glock 19. What is the advantage of this? The biggest factor for me in terms of carry is grip length. "But it's a duty pistol TR". Then why not give it the full length barrel of the P30L by default if it's a service pistol? Can it be carried? Sure, but with the grip length and texture I don't see why you'd want to. Go with a P2000 or P2000sk. Heck even the majority of the people on the hkpro forums will tell you to go a different route. And as for a duty pistol it doesn't seem to be incredibly commercially successful. Some European police adoption but not a ton. It's been out since 2006. HK's previous lines, by all my research, have been more successful.

Trigger Convertibility and Trigger in General
Like the P2000 the P30 suffers from a lack of DA/SA to LEM conversion support and vice versa. The USP line, while a brick to some, can be converted pretty easily to a number of trigger systems. The HK45 and HK45c are also fairly easily converted. It's a shame that HK didn't do the same with the P30. As it stands you can't convert from LEM to DA/SA and conversion from DA/SA to LEM, while possible, isn't officially supported. Addition of a safety to a model without a safety is also not possible from what I remember.

The trigger is serviceable and IMO not as horrible as some make it out to be. However you trade off having a smoother DA pull as opposed to the USP line and get a longer DA pull and longer reset in the process. Again the HK45 doesn't seem to suffer the same symptoms (but the trigger pull on my HK45c was much rougher than the P30).

Capacity
Do I need more than 15 rds of 9mm? No prob not. Should those mags be able to hold more than 15 rds for their length? Prob yes. If you can fit 13 rds of 40SW you can fit more than 15 rds of 9mm. My experience with HK mags is that they make the 40SW mags a tad longer to increase capacity. It's a minor gripe and that's why it's last. I've heard arguments that HK does this to "preserve the spring life". Maybe. But all else being equal I'd rather have a few more rounds on board and replace the springs a few times. (What's $15x#mags compared to a $900 gun?)


There are just my thoughts. I'd be interested in hearing from others.
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Old January 2, 2013, 09:40 PM   #2
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Unless we're extremely vocal and persistent about writing our team in Washington you're going to wish you still had those 15 rounds by June.
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Old January 2, 2013, 09:55 PM   #3
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It's alright, I have twelve 13 rd magazines for my two P2000s .
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Old January 3, 2013, 05:11 AM   #4
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I found the P30 to be one of the most "intuitive", naturally "form fitting to function" designs out there. It fits me. If it doesn't feel right in your hand, then time to move on and declare; no apology necessary. It just didn't work.

The ejection direction issue would be an annoyance to anyone. I have a couple fun guns that do that and I just live with the occational hot brass on my neck, but these are guns I shoot little.

What did you trade your P30 for? Maybe a Walther PPQ is in your future.
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Old January 3, 2013, 06:41 AM   #5
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I eventually went with a S grip panel on the left side of the gun, M on the right, and L on the back after searching for a combination that let me grip the gun properly and not shoot wild. The grip is shaped funny and takes more getting used to than anything.

The second problem is the "combat trigger."

Once you overcome these issues, it's a decent, reliable gun.

Still not a fan.
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Old January 3, 2013, 06:43 AM   #6
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What did you trade it for?
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Old January 3, 2013, 06:59 AM   #7
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This is why I still use a P7 PSP or my P7M8. I traded off with a guy at the range. My P7 for his P30. I found the initial trigger take up to be ridiculously long. Lawyer long. My P7's have little take up, and a nice, clean SA break. I could not get used to the P30 trigger, but I only shot it for a little while, and I's sure like anything I'd get used to it.

In the hicap, semi-compact world of 9MM's, I'll stick with my CZ PCR or a P7 of less capacity which I am fine with.
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Old January 3, 2013, 08:41 AM   #8
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If I could afford a P7 I would, but I can't. I owned a CZ P01. It is a very nice package, but the trigger was rough as heck. Even after hundreds of rounds. So I traded it a while ago. My plan is to order one from CZ custom with a trigger job. The trigger on CZs just begs to be worked on and I have high hopes.

The trigger takeup on the P2000 seems a tiny bit shorter, but not much. If I have to choose between a short rough pull, the USPs I've tried, and a long smooth pull, the P series pistols, I choose long and smooth (yea I know how that sounds). I learned to shoot on revolvers. I find that my first pull with my P2000 is right on the money, dead center, basically every time despite it's length. For me a large part of that though is that with the Large backstrap on the P2000 my finger indexes wonderfully on the trigger making that long pull easy.

As for what did I trade it for, prepare yourself to throw stones . I traded it so my wife could get the Ruger SR9c she wanted finally. The leftovers went towards mags and ammo, lots of both. In the meantime I did some more trading and got another P2000 so I have two. One soon to be coming back from Robar with the NP3+ treatment that will be my carry gun. This one is what I will abuse at the range and in any classes I take. That way I am training with exactly what I carry.
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Old January 3, 2013, 09:45 AM   #9
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I have read your posts for sometime (both here and on the HKPro forum). I am always interested in your opinions. I started with a Berretta Px4 Storm 9mm. I traded that for a P30 which really felt right for me (medium backstrap and large side panels). I added a P30L to see if the longer length was all I had heard about. Then I got Bill Springfield trigger jobs for SRT on both. Bitten by the bug, I traded some camera gear for an HK45c which has become my home gun. The I bought a new USPc 9mm which for some reason I just didn't shoot well and traded it for a used P2000Sk.

I thought I was done but then I traded some more camera gear and got a new Sig M11-A1 and a Sig P239. Out of everything, I am enjoying shooting the 2 Sigs the most. For Christmas my wife got me a Sig 22LR conversion kit and if I can ever find any ammo for it I will see how I like that for the range. The Sig infatuation may pass and I will want to go back to my HKs. But I am thinking that I should sell either the P30 or the P30L. I do like both but I don't think it makes sense to keep both. I had planned on selling one to pay for the USPc so I need to make up for that money. The thing is, I can't decide which one to sell. I shoot them about the same. Right now I have a CT rail mounted laser on the P30 and take it in the car so day or night I am good. But, I could get CT laser grip for the P239 and it could become a great CC gun. I would be trading 15 rounds for 8 in the magazine. The other option is to put Trijicon HD night sights on the P2000sk (if they ever become available).

Always decisions and decisions (and all cost money). So what to sell?
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Old January 3, 2013, 10:01 AM   #10
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Cant go wrong with a CZ Custom shop pistol. I picked up a pro-tek 2 a couple weeks ago. The trigger on it is nothing short of amazing. I could never warm up to the P30 either. The trigger felt oddly different than a USP or p2000 & could not acclimate to it.

I too ,am very fond of my hk p2000 pistols. IMO they feel, handle & shoot better than the USP compacts.
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Old January 3, 2013, 10:13 AM   #11
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You did very well. I always do that too. When a gun no longer serves a purpose with me. I trade/sell it towards another gun.

Your wife got that SR9c? Ammo and mags and you got another P2000? Very good. I approve.



Question on the NP3+!

I'm getting that on my Colt 70 Series. It's getting sand blasted now and I'll most likely send it for NP3+..No I will send it for that.

How much did that cost you?
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Old January 3, 2013, 10:58 AM   #12
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@Constantine

Well I got mags, ammo, and the SR9c for the P30 (say about $650). The P2000 was for me to "commemorate" my new house .

The NP3+ option I did was called the Norton special. Basically it's just the slide, barrel, and all internal parts. They don't do the frame because the Norton special is designed around polymer framed pistols. I ordered it in mid November when they were running a special deal. Originally would have been $250, was only $200. To me that's darn reasonable. Now I did have to pay to have it shipped there. They do charge a small fee for shipping it back, but it was like $6 or something? I didn't have to do anything to the finish ahead of time, the stripping and refinishing is all on them. Their price list is linked at the top left of their main page. My wife was the one that called (was my Christmas present from her, pretty good wife ) and they were extremely polite to her. I am supposed to get it back in 1-2 weeks and will post lots of pics when I do.
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Old January 3, 2013, 10:59 AM   #13
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Quote:
I too ,am very fond of my hk p2000 pistols. IMO they feel, handle & shoot better than the USP compacts.
Couldn't agree more. They seem like a bit of the red-headed step child on the civilian market but anyone I know that's tried one has loved them. The contract with CBP for them from HK is one of their biggest contracts ever I think.
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Old January 3, 2013, 11:11 AM   #14
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Quote:
The NP3+ option I did was called the Norton special. Basically it's just the slide, barrel, and all internal parts. They don't do the frame because the Norton special is designed around polymer framed pistols. I ordered it in mid November when they were running a special deal. Originally would have been $250, was only $200. To me that's darn reasonable. Now I did have to pay to have it shipped there. They do charge a small fee for shipping it back, but it was like $6 or something? I didn't have to do anything to the finish ahead of time, the stripping and refinishing is all on them. Their price list is linked at the top left of their main page. My wife was the one that called (was my Christmas present from her, pretty good wife ) and they were extremely polite to her. I am supposed to get it back in 1-2 weeks and will post lots of pics when I do.
That's awesome! All of that. Please post pics...lol

I hope mine would come out to that price. I'm already having the satin nickel blasted off, so it shouldn't be full price. I'll drop them a line.

Look forward to seeing your pics when it's done.
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Old January 3, 2013, 11:17 AM   #15
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Quote:
I thought I was done but then I traded some more camera gear and got a new Sig M11-A1 and a Sig P239. Out of everything, I am enjoying shooting the 2 Sigs the most. For Christmas my wife got me a Sig 22LR conversion kit and if I can ever find any ammo for it I will see how I like that for the range. The Sig infatuation may pass and I will want to go back to my HKs. But I am thinking that I should sell either the P30 or the P30L. I do like both but I don't think it makes sense to keep both. I had planned on selling one to pay for the USPc so I need to make up for that money. The thing is, I can't decide which one to sell. I shoot them about the same. Right now I have a CT rail mounted laser on the P30 and take it in the car so day or night I am good. But, I could get CT laser grip for the P239 and it could become a great CC gun. I would be trading 15 rounds for 8 in the magazine. The other option is to put Trijicon HD night sights on the P2000sk (if they ever become available).
SIGs have better triggers, I've accepted that a while ago. I had to work at getting down the DA/SA of my HKs. For my SIGs it was fine from day one. So why don't I still have them? To be honest it was the weight. For the range I'll take a SIG every day. But for carry, especially IWB which is my preference, the HKs are just lighter. It's not a massive difference, but it's definitely noticeable at the end of the day.

To me if you have both a P30 and P30L and you have a decent carry option, get rid of the P30. The HK45c and USP 9c could easily be carried. Sounds like you have a lot of options right now. While I like the P239, it's a comfortable gun, it's not size effecient for me. A P2k with flat baseplates is the same height and you've got 13+1 instead of 8+1. Width isn't much different and the P2k is only slightly longer (1/2"). But this is length in the slide and if you're carrying IWB it doesn't matter.

I personally like a mounted light for home defense. P2k fits a full size light (TLR-1) just fine and uses a Glock style slot. Easy to find stuff for. P239 has no rail. Lasers are nice. But honestly if someone is in my house I'm getting that front sight center mass and pulling the trigger, I don't want to search for a dot. Nice bright light will light him up like an Xmas tree and perfectly silhouettes the regular sights.

Now if you just like the P239 more that's fine. Were I you? Sell the USP 9c (keep any extra mags as they will work fine for the P2k) and the P30. Use some of the money to buy the P2k and save the rest. Now you've recooped some of the money you spent on the P30s and have a gun that can be good for both carry and home defense, ala Glock 19. All for the same money and size as the P239 but with 13 +1 instead of 8+1. Your call.
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Old January 3, 2013, 11:47 AM   #16
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For the price of a P30 you could easily get a German surplus P7 PSP. P30 seem to be running around $900 or more.

To be clear, I'm not saying the P30 isn't a good pistol. I am sure I'd get used to it, but I prefer other HK's and pistols from other mfg's to fill that role currently.
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Old January 3, 2013, 11:50 AM   #17
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Quote:
To be clear, I'm not saying the P30 isn't a good pistol. I am sure I'd get used to it, but I prefer other HK's and pistols from other mfg's to fill that role currently.
Oh I agree with you there.

You bring up a good point on the P7. I guess I'm so used to people posting pictures of them on hkpro that are in mint condition with shiny cases that I thought most of them were like $1500+. I'll mosey over to gunbroker and take a look, thanks!
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Old January 3, 2013, 12:15 PM   #18
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I own them all. I have a few USP Compacts. I really wanted to like the P30 but I dont. The Walther PPQ is my golden child as well as my P229 Elite Dark. If a good trigger is at the top of your list, then the PPQ and the P series Sig needs to be in your collection.
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Old January 3, 2013, 02:04 PM   #19
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Thanks for the advice Tunnelrat

Good advice all around. I had already sold the USPc to buy the P2000sk (I kept a couple of spare magazines from the USPc). The problem is that I was supposed to sell either the P30 or P30L to buy the USPc. I never got around to it, so now I need to sell one and have to decide which. You are right about the weight of the Sigs. However, right now they are range guns with the possibility of the P239 for carry and I am enjoying shooting them. I will check into the P2000. I have read great things on it on all the boards.
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Old January 4, 2013, 08:44 AM   #20
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From what I read the HK P2000sk is just about the perfect carry pistol. I am glad HK continues to make that as well as the USP line while coming out with new products.
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Old January 4, 2013, 12:39 PM   #21
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TR,
I'm curious given your comments regarding comfort, what you think of the full-size HK45 if you've handled one. I shot a rental P30 once, but my memory isn't good enough to recall exactly how they stacked up. I know my HK45 is the most comfortable handgun I've ever held, although I recall the P2000 being up there as well.

If I could only have one I would pick the P2000 over the P30 as well, just for carry purposes. In fact, I am toying with the idea of trading the HK45 towards an HK45c for the same reason.
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Old January 4, 2013, 02:14 PM   #22
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The only real issue is the ejection issue, the rest is that it was not being what you want. If it was not what you wanted why buy it?

Wearing off of the grip surface is an issue. That should not occur and curious if others have same problem and not just with HK?

Why not send it back to HK to fix the ejection issue?. One phone call and that seems to be where any action (pun intended) ceased.

Granted Sig tried the same thing with my nephews SP2022 that it needed breaking in and or limp wristing when in fact the brass was clearly marred by the terrible chamber (rings like a ring shank nail). Once past that it went in and came back the way it should have. So, not exclusive to HK the attempted brush off. It doesn't say a lot for HK customer service but that seems to be a reality for a lot of them (and sifting out the people who don't know diddly about guns and waste their time has to be frustrating to them as well)

I certainly respect the fact it does not suit you, but that you and not the gun.

My brother who is smaller than I am (he would have wrested in the 138 lb class in school and I was a natural 178 lb class). So, a lot smaller frame and hands and his P30 suits us both to a T with the same grips.

That was my experience with every other HK I handled, the grips are fantastic and the P30 was as good, finger groves or not.

It seems strange you carried a gun you did not like as much as the P30 and the ejection issue.

And the odd I can understand some break in. Sham on you, you should know better. If it does not work right out of the box there is a problem.

I will endorse it needing to prove its reliable over 150+ rounds before starting to fully trusting it, but that's a confidence/reliability confirmation not a break in issue. Any failure that does not have an ammunition proved explanation is reason to ship it back.

And if you ordered it right, you could get a 1911 type safety. Why a pistol should be able to be adjusted like a Swiss army knife is beyond me.

If you want that capability order a pistol that offers it. Glock I gather is famous for it, but I don't care for them.

Obviously HK did not intend this gun for the swap things around market.
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Old January 4, 2013, 04:19 PM   #23
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@RC20
What the heck is your problem? I said multiple times in the post that these were just my opinions. HK didn't offer to take the gun back, they were resolute it was my fault. Excuse me for not wanting to pay to have it fixed myself. As for wanting it to be a Swiss army knife, that is a bit of an exaggeration. I leveled my criticism at all P series guns for discontinuing a feature that was well liked in previous models. Go on hkpro and you will see a number of people often end up switching trigger systems. On the USP series it is easy for someone to do even at home. At the beginning I thought I liked it but I grew to realize they were things about itshe that I disliked, hence this thread. Sorry to rain on your parade. Why don't you make a thread about how you like it so much to counter mine? Last I knew this is a forum where we express opinions. No need to give me flak about mine.
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Old January 4, 2013, 09:40 PM   #24
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I was ribbing you some. My apologies.

Criticism is fair

I don't often really like a gun and I do the P30. Would love to have one.
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Old January 4, 2013, 10:37 PM   #25
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I'm ******. I've been thinking a P30 will be my next pistol and I know I read you think it's a dog. Maybe I'll just look for another 229 made in the 90's.
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