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Old May 20, 2005, 10:01 AM   #1
tjhands
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Pepper spray picture....is it real?

This guy is apparently getting juiced (a LOT!!!) with a can of what looks like Fox 5.3 pepper spray in a flip-top can. Is that really what the stuff looks like or is this pic a fake?

Cripes, if it's real, this guy is gonna wish he was dead and buried.
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Old May 20, 2005, 10:04 AM   #2
gunsmith1
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Yes it looks right

From my experience it does look like one of the pepper foam products.
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Old May 20, 2005, 10:33 AM   #3
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That is gonna leave a mark
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Old May 20, 2005, 10:38 AM   #4
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the foam version of fox labs OC is only 2.0 million at 2%.
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Old May 20, 2005, 03:01 PM   #5
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anyone every see the old COPs episode where the older black gentleman had a bunch of stuff in his hand and wanted to set it down on the car instead of "drop it right now" Oh man some young cop runs up and hoses him in the face for about five seconds with the mace, the Blackman holds his cool and says why did you do that and the young cop runs up to spray him again and the older blackman in a flash drops his stuff and grabs the cops hand and turns the mace into the cops face and literally shoves it in his mouth and up his nose. That kid was screaming like a woman and all the old guy says is "how do you like it, bitch?" funniest thing ever on tv it is first or second season on COPS.
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Old May 20, 2005, 05:33 PM   #6
Randy in Arizona
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Quote:
guntotin_fool - the older blackman in a flash drops his stuff and grabs the cops hand and turns the mace into the cops face and literally shoves it in his mouth and up his nose.
Most likely the older black gentleman was charged with resisting arrest, assault, etc. I hope the video evidence was enough to get him aquitted!
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Old May 20, 2005, 05:57 PM   #7
tjhands
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Aquitted? Seriously? You condone someone - nevermind that he's an "older black gentleman" - spraying an officer in the face with mace and calling him "bitch?" Regardless of whether or not the officer had it coming to him, if we somehow permiss people to act this way against law enforcement officers, we are on quite the slippery slope.

A gentleman, by the way, would not be questioned by the police in the first place, let alone grab an officer's arm and assault him with mace.
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Old May 21, 2005, 01:12 AM   #8
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The only time I ever saw CS gas sprayed on anyone was when an Inspector I worked with called in two young cops and sprayed them with it to see if it worked. It was clear, like fly spray and it stunk. The two cops were highly ****** off with it and left the area muttering under their breath, but otherwise unhurt (not disabled either). I have heard that sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Don't think I'd rely on it. Maybe for juveniles?
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Old May 21, 2005, 01:56 AM   #9
r.w. schrack
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news flash

if you eat alot of hot peppers it has little or no affect, during the academy thay got me twice cause i laughed at the instructor, my eyes watered a little and i helped the others get thru it by washing thier eyes out. guess i shouldn't have said it would taste good on stake.
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Old May 21, 2005, 05:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
A gentleman, by the way, would not be questioned by the police in the first place, let alone grab an officer's arm and assault him with mace.
I really hope you're being sarcastic.
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Old May 21, 2005, 07:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
if you eat alot of hot peppers it has little or no affect, during the academy thay got me twice cause i laughed at the instructor, my eyes watered a little and i helped the others get thru it by washing thier eyes out. guess i shouldn't have said it would taste good on stake.
Oh my, my, my... I'd sure like to see confirmed vidoe of that!

Yep - the pic does look like one of the foam products.
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Old May 22, 2005, 01:38 AM   #12
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just training

I think this was done as a part of the training procedure(I saw a simmilar picture in a tactical shooting book at Barnes and Noble store). The fluid in the can has no %charge and is harmless(the pressure of the stream is still unpleasant thought) and desighed to practice on aiming and spraying the BG.
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Old May 22, 2005, 01:55 AM   #13
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2fast....

What would be the point of spraying someone in the face like that if it was not "real", just spray a target if the training was for the aiming of the spray.

This is more than likely what most LEO have to go through as part of qualifying to carry OC spray and that is to be sprayed yourself. I have never been sprayed with the foam, only the stream because that is what I carry but I would imagine those officers who do carry foam would be required to get hit with it.

Last edited by NSO_w/_SIG; May 22, 2005 at 03:37 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old May 22, 2005, 01:59 AM   #14
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r.w.

so your are saying that becasue you eat alot of hot peppers getting hit in the eyes with OC spray has little to no effect on you and you laugh about it? I too, would like to see that video
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Old May 22, 2005, 02:36 AM   #15
r.w. schrack
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capstun

the stuff we use is called capstun with a cayenne pepper base, am not sure what was used in the picture, im sure it is a downscaled version for propoganda purposes. im not saying im john wayne or anything but the stuff had little affect on me, it made my eyes burn alittle but nothing drastic, i could still function probably couldn't hit 25 meters dead center might get a leg. it is a fact if you eat alot of peppers it decreases the affect. now tear gas is another story i blow snot bubbles and lose vision. that is some bad stuff. schrack
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Old May 22, 2005, 03:31 AM   #16
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Quote:
it is a fact if you eat alot of peppers it decreases the affect.
No, it is not.

Cayenne pepper is rated as producing 30,000-50,000 SHU.
Oleresin capsaicin products rate between 1,000,000 and 5,000,000+ SHU.
Pure capsaicin come in at 16,000,000 SHU.

How would eating something that is only 5% (at most) as hot as something that runs directly into your eyes help? The mechanics are different and the heat is not even comparible. Eye and mucous membranes are much more sensitive than tongue and mouth parts last I heard. I love Jalepenos on a lotta things and intake them regularly, but if I get thier juice on my finger it still causes my eyes to water and sting if I happen to rub them....

I've never seen one ounce of proof to such a claim, which I've heard far too often - show me would ya? Please? And just think, if you happen to be one of those freaky few that such products don't affect you might make a pretty little bit of cash showing off such a talent and allowing OC companys to research why thier products don't work on you. After all - it ain't that big of a deal, right?

An aside, OC sprays do not taste good in food. It provides a lot of heat, but does not add flavor, two very different things to most people. (yeah, I tried it once) But of course there may be folks out there that like the flavor of oleresin capsaicin suspended in vinegar or oil too, taste is subjective afterall...

Back to the pic - it is a common practice for LEO and trainning sorts to subject themselves to pepper spray so they know how it will affect them if they are exposed. Many of them end up slobbering, drooling, masses of useless flesh, but most are able to work through the pain and exposure. Education is a key and they are taught that though the effect is disabling and painful, it is not permanent or totally incapacitating. They can overcome it. As a result some get through it very well, able to fight and act without much apparent difficulty. I'm one of those, but believe me the stuff burns and is uncomfortable as all get out - I can't wait to get that cold water in my face... But I've NEVER met any of them who actually went through such a trainning class and was actually exposed who was so cavalier about the experience that they laughed and said it had no effect. That just doesn't happen.

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Old May 22, 2005, 05:12 AM   #17
r.w. schrack
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got me????????????????????????????

got me man but that is what went down, and my exact statement was that it and laughed then he got me again. i did not have the same reaction as the other 39. actualy it did not have that bad of a taste i think suicide wings are worse.
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Old May 22, 2005, 05:16 AM   #18
r.w. schrack
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you are right

its no big deal at all in fact i don't care all i know is if i use the stuff i am at the advantage. so whether anyone believes me or my explanation, just passing on what happened, end of story no more said.
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Old May 22, 2005, 10:41 AM   #19
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Actually R.W. your experience is totally believable and valuable - it is quite possible you react differently and have a more mild reaction than most. I'm not doubting your story all that much. It is also possible you did not get the stuff directly in your eyes and on your mucus membranes, the first time I was exposed I only got a sweeping spray across the forehead and rushed off to complete the obstacle course before anyone realized the miss. I was doing so well and wondering when the stuff was supposed to kick in, when they stopped me and reapplied the spray when the instructor realized the problem 45 minutes to decon that day. I remember it too well. Another of the classes I've attended that required exposure did so with cotton swabs dipped in OC and sweeped directly across the eyes. They decided to go to that method to ensure exposure - too often in times past the students closed thier eyes at the wrong time or the wind suddenly took a hand. (And most of the dose - imagine that in Wyoming, lol.) Stream spray can be such an inprecise way to apply the stuff...

And at our last class most of us stood around and joked about how we wanted to try some of the "new" stuff in chili and on steaks to see if it were really good. Don't think anyone actually did it, though when the instructor overheard, he told us he had tried it and it wasn't anygood. Offered to spray the "tough talkers" directly in the mouth in addition to thier eyes so they could have a better opinion. Some guys sure think they are funny... No takers.

But I felt I had to take issue on the eating hots = desensitizing. Disinformation isn't something I like to see passed on when people are asking for information. Your experience is very valuable in pointing out that everyone does indeed have a different reaction and experience. That I agree with ya whole heartedly. But thanks for letting go of the non factual parts...
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Old May 22, 2005, 11:55 AM   #20
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I'm thinking of suggesting to Fox that they put sights on their canisters Seems every time we have to deploy the stuff, I get hit with the overspray. One thing I found that helps a lot when you get a face full is Solarcaine sunburn gel with Aloe Vera and Lidocaine. It doesn't stop it all, but it's a lot better than that "cool it" spray they supply as a counteractant. Doesn't help with the eyes though. Nothing helps there but lots and lots and LOTS of cold water.
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Old May 22, 2005, 01:59 PM   #21
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I know for sure that you can build "some" immunity to pepper sprays and stun guns. They hit you with both in the academy so you will be less suprised by the effects. The instructor would shoot the spray in his mouth and hold the stun gun(while discharging) to his throat at the same time and just keep on teaching!

Then he got out the "tazer"

Different outcome there. Everyone hit the floor, standing up is just not an option. Everyone would hold hands and he would attach one lead to each person at the end of the human chain socks. Hit that trigger for just a second and ...

everybody drops

OC just can't do what a tazer can for sure, and a tazer won't blow back in your face

BOB
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Old May 22, 2005, 02:23 PM   #22
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I've never used the spray on someone ( I did fire those 37mm c/s gas guns at a guy once), but I've seen it used. From what I've seen, sober, non-violent, but stupid, "why me?" kind of guys usually went down (complied while crying and coughing). Drunk, crazy, or violent guys just went bezerk..wouldn't use it against those types. But everyone reacts different I guess. I have been hit with tazer, and what I think they called a "capture shield", those things put me on the ground real quick like, I would prefer to use these instead of a minor irritant like OC. And I don't believe eating jalapenos provides any immunity....they're kind of puny anyways..even those habaneros ain't all that, less you squish one into your eyes. Big deal.
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Old May 22, 2005, 03:53 PM   #23
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Then he got out the "tazer"

Different outcome there. Everyone hit the floor, standing up is just not an option. Everyone would hold hands and he would attach one lead to each person at the end of the human chain socks. Hit that trigger for just a second and ...

everybody drops
Right on! People can get used to electric shocks, but not to a Taser. The X-26 with shaped pulse technology interferes with the nervous system's signals to the voluntary muscles. The stronger you are, the more muscle mass you have, the more effective the Taser is. You can't fight it (if it's deployed properly), although I've seen a number of guys try... and loose. Check out some of the vids from Taser International.

http://www.taser.com/law/videos.htm
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Old May 22, 2005, 04:22 PM   #24
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Pepper spray doesn't affect me much I will admit. Being tasered will kill me (so to all the LEO's here, please shoot me first ).

All in all, I guess that innocent people aren't killed, tasered or beaten by the LEO's at all so all is good and well, no one is a lady or gentleman until proven so in a court of law, case law that is.

Sorry, second injection (did I mention that I hate needles) and side effects.

Wayne
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Old May 22, 2005, 04:44 PM   #25
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Geeze Wayne!! Get up on the wrong side of the bed today??

Sorry, but I don't consider someone coming at me with a knife or ball bat "innocent people". Only time I deploy a Taser or OC is on someone armed with a sharp object or impact weapon... or if they're a hell of a lot bigger than me.
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