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Old December 23, 2012, 04:07 AM   #1
mellow_c
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Tiny groups, Remington 700 SPS Tactical? Or something else?

I'm finally in the market for a .308 bolt action rifle. I helped someone I know research and pic out a rifle for him self over a year ago, and we decided on a Remington 700 SPS Tactical. http://www.remington.com/products/fi...-tactical.aspx I've been shooting with him and the rifle enough times to say that the gun can consistently put 3 shots into a half inch at 100 yards using 168 grain federal match ammo, so long as we are shooting well.

I've got a nice Tikka 30-06 that I can keep within one inch without much trouble, and lucky for me, it really likes some of the cheaper federal hunting ammo available at walmart.

But I'm craving something that will really shoot! I'm really close to buying the same rifle as my friend. I feel pretty confident that I could just go buy the same rifle and ammo, then do a good job of mounting my spare Zeiss 14x scope, and be shooting dime sized groups right along with him (we are of equal skill level, more or less)

However, I'm starting to look into the Remington SPS Tactical AAC-SD. This one has a 1 in 10 twist as opposed the the 1 in 12 on the bassic SPS Tactical http://www.remington.com/products/fi...al-aac-sd.aspx It also has a threaded barrel. I'm thinking that what ever I end up with, I'd like it to have a threaded barrel because there is a good chance that I might like to venture into the world of suppressors down the road.

Anyone have any experience with the AAC-SD 700? I've read a few reviews here and there, and no one seams to be getting better than a 1 inch group with this rifle regardless of how many different types of ammo they try. While I consistently read reviews of the basic SPS Tactical shooting half inch groups, sometimes better.

I've done as much research as I feel I can realistically do on my own, and now I need opinions. Does Remington make any higher end tactical 700's, maybe with a better stock and still a threaded barrel? I wont go for a custom gun, I think my absolute limit would be $1300 on the rifle... leaving only ammo and mounts for the scope to buy (maybe a bipod I suppose)

I'm really excited to start shooting at longer ranges and squeezing in some really tight groups. I want to get one good .308 bolt rifle for this and I want to do it right the first time. I want a threaded barrel to allow for a suppressor in the future (or at least muzzle break) and I need to do it without getting into some $3,000 custom rifle.

Thanks in advance my friends... Happy Holidays, and Merry Christmas

Last edited by mellow_c; December 23, 2012 at 04:16 AM.
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Old December 23, 2012, 11:01 AM   #2
hooligan1
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If your fast and quick you might just be able to catch that Rem 700 Police edition rifle on Armslist St. Louis mo. 2nd or 3rd page maybe.... 900.00
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Old December 23, 2012, 02:00 PM   #3
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There is a guy selling his SPS...

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=506840

If I was buying one again, I would grab this.
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Old December 24, 2012, 06:59 AM   #4
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Remington 700 5R
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Old December 24, 2012, 07:14 AM   #5
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If you are looking for the best groups for the money, my friends Savage with the HS Precision stock in 308, regularly shoots .3" - .5" 5 shot 100 yd groups with me at the trigger. Hornady factory ammo.

I thought it might be a fluke, but my Savage 12 BVSS 300WSM will put 5 into .6" every time.

I kind of wonder what 10 shots would look like?
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Old December 24, 2012, 07:20 AM   #6
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You're gonna want to take a look at the 700 5R. I think they pop up randomly from time to time and are not a "regular run" gun. They are based on rifles that for whatever reason get rejected from the military quals but still shoot wonderfully. Because they are .mil rejects they need to build up a small inventory of the barreled actions before they an make a run. This is why they appear sporadically.
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Old December 24, 2012, 08:58 AM   #7
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5R/.308
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Old December 24, 2012, 09:18 AM   #8
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I think instead of switching guns, I'd spend the funds on more ammo and extend the range making sure I could shoot your 1 MOA groups at 600 to 1000 yards.

Of just get a 22 and shoot itty bitty groups at short range all the time.
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Old December 24, 2012, 09:50 AM   #9
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I have a 700SPS and out of the box, it would shoot around 1/2" at 100 yards on a pretty regular basis, prone, off a bipod with my reloads which basically duplicate Federal Match.

I always hated the stock, and especially the recoil pad, and just recently switched to a Bell & Carlson M40.

I had to rezero as I fiddled with the scope once I got the stock mounted. Considering I removed and replaced the scope and futzed around with it, surprisingly enough, the first three rounds looked like this, with an adjustment after each shot....



The next seven went here....



Out to out was a bout 3/4", with 5 rounds into under 1/2". The upper two were actually called, but I was expecting worse. I also shot that from a bench, which I usually never do, as it was muddy as hell that day at the range, and I didnt feel like flopping down in the mud. Ive always shot my best groups from prone, either off a bipod or ruck.

The target is a SR-1 replacement center and the "X" is 1 1/4" for reference.

Heres the rifle now with its new stock.




Ive always had good luck with the Remington 700's. I shot these with my old box stock Remington 700 Varmint, using the same load I shot the above with. 5 rounds each group, also 100 yards.






Quote:
I kind of wonder what 10 shots would look like?
I shot this with my box stock Savage Scout with its Leupold Scout scope, off a bipod at 100 yards. Thats a 20 round group of 165 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips over 43.5 grains of 4064.

As much as I hear people complain about the factory Savage stocks, the couple of Savage rifles Ive owned, shot very nicely, right out of the box.

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Old December 24, 2012, 10:01 AM   #10
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I've bought, sold, and traded more guns than you could put in the back of a pickup truck over the years, I reload and do quite a lot of bench rest shooting (not competition) just fun, seeing what kind of groups I can get out of a rifle (I call it wringing them out) I have owned 8 or 10 tikka's and so far (knock on wood) I have yet to see one NOT shoot good, most have shot sub moa with very little work if any. I have had good and bad luck with about every other brand, one of the worst rifles I ever owned was a model 700 .338 win mag, nothing I could do to make that darn thing shoot, I tried everything from different powders, bulllets, seating depth etc. Just couldn't make the gun shoot better than 2" at 100 yrds, I have a good friend that has the exact same .338 and it shoots extremely good! Luck of the draw, you never know til you get it home and 'wring it out' good luck
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Old December 24, 2012, 01:23 PM   #11
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Is the stock on the 700 tactical all that bad? Seems like everyone that posts about it talks about that theyve replaced it or are going to replace it. I ask because I'm somewhat interested in this rifle too in 308.
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Old December 24, 2012, 01:45 PM   #12
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There is a lot of play in the front of the stock, especially when a bipod is mounted, and you can make the stock contact the barrel with just a little lateral pressure on the bipod.

The rubber was another issue. I usually paint my guns like this, and I thought the paint job would have issues with the give of the rubber.


The recoil pad is also kind of shaky, and really bugged me. To be fair though, they all do. I dont know why the stock makers seem to feel we need a recoil pad. The least they could do, is offer the option for a nice butt plate that would replace it, but so far, Ive had to order a generic oversize blank form Brownells, and fit them to just about every gun I own that came with one. The new B&C I just got is going to get the same treatment here soon.
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Old December 24, 2012, 08:14 PM   #13
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I have the AAC-SD and love it. Funny because mine shoots the Federal Gold Match really good too. Mine shoots best with 178gr. AMAX's. I get 5/8" groups (give or take) at 100yards firing from a bench and bags. The AAC-SD isn't for everyone though. It is cheaper looking(to most but I love it), the balance on the rifle is a little weird to me unless firing from a bipod or bench. I also had to pour resin in the Hogue stock to stiffen it and keep it from touching the barrel under load. i love the grippy feel of the stock, but the free floating was an easy fix.I honestly love mine but also realize that at that price point, there are many contenders that offer as much(or more depending on what you are looking for). I know this isn't much help, but trust me, they really are good shooting rifles. Best of luck.
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Old December 24, 2012, 10:34 PM   #14
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To get the best accuracy out of the 700 SPS Tactical you have to ditch the rubber flexible factory stock and replace it with an aftermarket stock (HS precision, Manners, McMillian, accuracy international...your choice depending on your budget) that allows the barrel to freefloat in all situations. That will give you the best bang for your buck. I don't think the factory stock is worth modifying as it is not stiff enough. It applies inconsistent pressure against the the barrel when a bipod is used.

I replaced the stock on my 700 SPS Tactical with an HS Precision stock. Later, I changed my mine and decided to get a stock more designed for prone shooting and replaced it with a Manners T4 adjustable stock. Some stocks required epoxy bedding (Manners, McMillan) while others are designed as simple drop in with alluminum pillars like the HS Precision.

My rifle shoots Federal Gold Metal Match 168 gn ammo in sub MOA groups and my best handloads consistently approaching .5-.75 MOA at 100 yards.

The Rem 700 is kind of like the Ruger 10/22 of the precision rifle world. Lots of accessories and aftermarket support and pretty good accurate out of the box.

You probably need to be a very good handloader with a good shooting factory rifle or spend thousands for a custom rifle with a blueprinted Remington action (or custom action) with a aftermarket barrel and aftermarket stock such as those mentioned above to consistently achieve sub .5 MOA groups or better.

I would consider the AAC version if you are considering adding a suppressor later down the road since it saves you the hassle of getting it threaded.

I don't think there is that much difference between the 1 to 12 twist vs 1 to 10 twist in the .308. Theoretically, the faster twist allows you to shoot heavier weight bullets but the .308 is more limited by case capacity in selecting heavy bullet weights than twist rate. I think the 1 to 12 twist stabilizes 175-180 grain bullets just fine.

Last edited by Flakbait; December 24, 2012 at 10:43 PM.
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Old December 24, 2012, 10:43 PM   #15
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Yep, listen to Flak. It took quite a while to work up my AMAX loads and seat depth. While my Hogue is as stiff as a board now(after epoxy), most simple would not want to take the time. Another thing, triggers.... I recommend getting a good aftermarket trigger. I set my factory X-Mark to just above 1.3lbs, but it requires some polishing. I had the trigger completely apart polishing the sear. This was a couple hours to get it tuned. To be honest, it worked great but still did I not offer the feel of a Timney or a Jewel..etc.. Just food for thought.
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Old December 24, 2012, 10:54 PM   #16
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I think the best modifications I made to my 700 was adding a Timney Trigger and adding a Tactical bolt handle.

I could not get the supposably adjustable X-Mark trigger to adjust lower than 5 lbs (perhaps mine was a lemon) and I am not handy enough (or foolish enough) to modify a factory trigger. The Timney was a simple drop in that required only a few punches and some patience.

I mailed my factory bolt to Badger Ordinance who added a tactical bolt handle to my bolt and shipped it back to me.

Yes, the Badger tactical bolt looks cool, and I no longer have sores and cuts on my fingers from banging them against the scope while cycling the action rapidly.
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Old December 25, 2012, 08:39 AM   #17
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A 1:10 twist in a .308 Win. barrel 22 to 26 inches long is way too much for best accuracy unless your bullets are heavier than 200 grains.
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Old December 25, 2012, 10:52 AM   #18
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Listen to flak, I do NOT recommend anyone adjusting their tigger with the exception of the external adjuster. I have worked these triggers for quite a while. Too much polishing or not enough sear pressure and it gets dangerous real fast. I spent more time removing the thread locker than polishing and adjusting. It isn't rocket science, but it can be as dangerous. All three of the internal adjustment have to be just right or.....bang...when you least expect it. Every X-Mark is different. I usually get them to 2-3.5lbs, but have had three out of the last four that were a little better for adjustment. Trust me on this, it is cheaper to buy an aftermarket trigger than to risk adjusting the stock trigger, especially if you are unfamiliar with them. Merry Christmas
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Old December 25, 2012, 11:51 AM   #19
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I have adjusted many rem 700 triggers over the years, I was taught by a gunsmith/custom barrel builder that knew the rem 700 trigger inside and out. He told me from the very beginning that some factory triggers would adjust perfectly and make an excellent trigger while others will be junk and won't adjust without becoming unsafe, he told me the bad ones were not worth going inside and trying to polish and work out the faults, his advise on a factory rem 700 trigger that will not adjust to satisfaction is to replace it with a timney or other quality aftermarket trigger. I have had good and bad luck with the rem 700 stock triggers, some adjust nicely and others simply won't no matter what. I also highly advise you NOT attempt to adjust unless you are very confident, if in doubt take it to a good smith and have him do it. There are tests that need to be performed through out the adjustment process, ie slamming the bolt etc. To make sure its safe. Once you have done a few it becomes quite a simple procedure
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Old December 25, 2012, 04:01 PM   #20
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I think you're really rolling the dice- and unlikely to succeed- in trying to better half-minute accuracy, from ANY factory barrel and non-accurized action/stock- not to mention factory ammo.

Be satisfied with what ya got, or get a custom barrel and trued action in a good aftermarket stock- AND develop handloads.

My $.02.
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Old December 25, 2012, 04:38 PM   #21
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Thanks for all the great replys. Just to be clear, I dont have anything yet. My friend has the rifle/ammo combo that is shooting better than .5 MOA. I actually just talked to him, he said his best group was 3 shots, 1/3 of an inch center to center, at 100 yards using 168 grain Federal Match Gold King. Out of his Remington 700 SPS Tactical from a bench, with a bipod, and no modifications to the rifle or stock.

The 700 5R looks like a great option. It has a 24" barrel instead of the 20" of the AAC-SD. And from what I've read, the 5R will easily out shoot the normal production 700's. However the 5R does not have a threaded barrel, and at this point, I've decided that is something I want.


So maybe I'd be well served with the Remington 700 SPS Tactical AAC-SD, with a better aftermarket stock, and depending on how the trigger turns out from the factory, I can always swap it out with a Timney... How does all that sound?

Merry Christmas!

Last edited by mellow_c; December 25, 2012 at 04:55 PM.
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Old December 25, 2012, 05:00 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK103K View Post
I have a 700SPS and out of the box, it would shoot around 1/2" at 100 yards on a pretty regular basis, prone, off a bipod with my reloads which basically duplicate Federal Match.

I always hated the stock, and especially the recoil pad, and just recently switched to a Bell & Carlson M40.

I had to rezero as I fiddled with the scope once I got the stock mounted. Considering I removed and replaced the scope and futzed around with it, surprisingly enough, the first three rounds looked like this, with an adjustment after each shot....



The next seven went here....



Out to out was a bout 3/4", with 5 rounds into under 1/2". The upper two were actually called, but I was expecting worse. I also shot that from a bench, which I usually never do, as it was muddy as hell that day at the range, and I didnt feel like flopping down in the mud. Ive always shot my best groups from prone, either off a bipod or ruck.

The target is a SR-1 replacement center and the "X" is 1 1/4" for reference.

Heres the rifle now with its new stock.




Ive always had good luck with the Remington 700's. I shot these with my old box stock Remington 700 Varmint, using the same load I shot the above with. 5 rounds each group, also 100 yards.







I shot this with my box stock Savage Scout with its Leupold Scout scope, off a bipod at 100 yards. Thats a 20 round group of 165 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips over 43.5 grains of 4064.

As much as I hear people complain about the factory Savage stocks, the couple of Savage rifles Ive owned, shot very nicely, right out of the box.

Sweet Jesus I'm definitely upgrading my pos hogue stock


Molon Labe
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Old December 28, 2012, 08:18 PM   #23
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Quote:
So maybe I'd be well served with the Remington 700 SPS Tactical AAC-SD, with a better aftermarket stock, and depending on how the trigger turns out from the factory, I can always swap it out with a Timney... How does all that sound?
I'd consider sending your SPS to SAC for his accurizing package for that rifle...
Give Mark a call and discuss your rifle, and goals. I haven't done business with him personally, but his rep is stellar.

http://shortactioncustoms.com/?p=636
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Old December 30, 2012, 08:09 PM   #24
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My best group during load development with my Remington 700 SPS Tactical AAC-SD factory everything and a NC Star scope not bad for a "flimsy" stock which I want to upgrade
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1356915994.282844.jpg


It's not an assault weapon it's a Modern Musket

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Old December 30, 2012, 08:36 PM   #25
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The SPS is good, but is not even in the league with the Savage 12 Bench rest. At $1K nothing even remotely in the price range will shoot with the Savage. One of my friends has a Custom Shop Remington that is pretty much a $3.5K version of the SPS and he says at least once every time he is at the range "I wish I had bought a d..n Savage." My $450 Savage tactical outshoots his Custom, but he does not know it has over a grand of custom work done on it. Still, his rifle cost twice as much. My rifle wont shoot with the 12. I was going to buy a 12, but built a Baht. The 12 wont shoot with the Baht custom, but realistically it shouldn't.
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