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Old December 26, 2012, 09:42 PM   #1
XtremeRevolution
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1911 vs CZ-75?

I just want a quick opinion. I've done countless hours of research on this.

My options are a CZ-75B or a RIA 1911 Tactical in 9mm. both are about the same price (just under $500).

I currently have an RIA 1911 XT22 (.22 LR), which is a full steel gun with a true 1911 frame. I could buy a conversion for it in 9mm for $285 and have the slide fitted, but I'd rather have the complete gun. I shoot this very well.

If you were in my situation, what would you choose and why?

Last edited by XtremeRevolution; December 26, 2012 at 09:52 PM.
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Old December 26, 2012, 09:59 PM   #2
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CZ 75B is terrific handgun and if you plan on getting 9mm, cz is better choice IMHO.
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Old December 26, 2012, 10:04 PM   #3
Walt Sherrill
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I like CZs and I like 1911s.

Rather than buy a second 1911, I'd get a 9mm slide. (Having it fitted probably wouldn't be critical, if it fits the frame, as slide/frame fit isn't as important as barrel to slide fit.) Switching from one caliber to the other is very easy and fast. That saves you about half the $'s needed to get a second gun, later.

If you haven't tried a CZ, do so before you decide.

Unless you get a dedicated SAO model, it's a DA/SA that can be carried cocked and locked, and can use 16 or 17 round mags. The decocker models start from the half-cock notch, which shortens the DA trigger a bit.

Be warned: CZ triggers (if the gun is bought new) are often disappointing at first, but clean up in a few hundred rounds. (I'd just get a trigger job, up front.)

The similar Witness Match line is an option, too, and the triggers are often quite good, out of the box. Witness Customer service is less well-regarded than CZ customer service, but you're unlikely to need their help for either gun.

Last edited by Walt Sherrill; December 27, 2012 at 08:38 AM.
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Old December 26, 2012, 10:09 PM   #4
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Just for some additional clarification, I would also conceal carry this once illinois legislation is finalized, which is why my previous Beretta 92 option went out and the 1911 went in. I do like them both. How much value is there in having a .22 gun that's identical to your primary handgun?

Swapping the xt22 to a 9mm is more complicated. It requires swapping the ejector/extractor and mainspring housing as well, according to RIA. I'm not too fond of the idea of having to fiddle with tools and swapping parts every time I go to the range, but I won't completely dismiss the option.

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Old December 26, 2012, 10:12 PM   #5
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People really like having a .22 that is identical to their carry for training purposes. The biggest reason I see is the whole muscle memory thing.

Still though, variety is the spice of life. I'm not familiar with the CZ, but if the safety is the same as a 1911 safety I would go with the CZ.


Sure have a tough decision don't ya...
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Old December 26, 2012, 10:23 PM   #6
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Big fan of both guns but if I had to pick (and I did) go with the 75b. The 75 was made as a 9, the 1911 platform can be temperamental in 9. CZ makes big sticks for the 75 at 26rds. I don't know of anything on the 75 that isn't a drop in fit if you need to make a fix. The only weak spot I know of on the 75 is the slide stop, keep one on hand and replace the recoil spring every 5k/rds and even that becomes a rumor. I'm to around 45k/rds down range with no complaints. Plus CZ does make a 22 kit if you don't mind a 2 minute swap. 75 is a strong gun, you won't be sorry if you go that way.
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Old December 27, 2012, 02:58 AM   #7
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Save some money and get the conversion kit. And that's coming from a diehard CZ fan. I thoroughly enjoy swapping out my Kadet 22 conversion slide on my P01.
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Old December 27, 2012, 04:03 AM   #8
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I'm very biased here as my only gun is a CZ-85b (identical to the 75b just full ambi) and I have a Kadet 2 conversion kit which is a 30 second swap to shoot 22's.

Never shot any 1911's before, but I hear when they are not in 45 or they shorten the barrel from 5' (or whatever the standard size is) they start to get finicky. That being said I'd buy one in 45 given the chance.

Either way I'm sure you can't go wrong. One quick observation the 75b is an all steel gun. Those things are heaaavy. I'm not a monstrous man by any stretch, 6' 240 lbs, but I wouldn't consider lugging one of them around all day.

Just a thought.
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Old December 27, 2012, 08:43 AM   #9
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I've had a 75B, and 75D PCR (lightweight alloy framed compact) for over ten years. The 75B is primarily a range and home defense gun, while I carry the PCR. I also have the Kadet Kit which works on both. It needed no fitting, and has been very accurate, reliable and just plain fun to shoot.

While I'm a big 1911 fan, and have a few, I would pick a CZ over a RIA any day of the week. Save your money and get a higher quality 1911 like a Colt.
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Old December 27, 2012, 09:00 AM   #10
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Quote:
While I'm a big 1911 fan, and have a few, I would pick a CZ over a RIA any day of the week. Save your money and get a higher quality 1911 like a Colt.
While you may be right, I used to hate hearing (reading) that when I asked for something I need/want as soon as possible in my budget and someone told me that.

OP wants one of the two aforementioned. I don't know much about CZ because I don't have first hand experience with them. I do with RIA. They were solid and not bad at all for that price range.


Now? I'd totally take that advice of saving up for something better. I've cleared out house in my safe and left the ones that I shoot the most and carry the most. Not being a gun brat but I kept better quality to MY standards.


So, finally...OP..

My opinion is up in the air from personal experience as my RIA 1911 was .45


Best bet is to feel them out for yourself. I have to hold my guns for a good 15 minutes and work the functions on them before I make a move.
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Old December 27, 2012, 10:30 AM   #11
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toughy. where did you find a cz 75b for under $500? they're closer to $700 now, which puts it in the price range of an sti spartan v instead of a rock island armory. this would make it a much harder decision. as you can see below, both made it into my top range gun category. if you can truly find a 75b for under $500, jump all over it. for carry purposes tho, i'd be leaning more towards the cz pcr or p-01. still holds 13 rounds, great ergos, but smaller grip and barrel for ease of concealment.
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Old December 27, 2012, 12:34 PM   #12
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Dan, even the large gun/sporting store nearby has a few CZ-75Bs with nickel plating for $550. I don't know where they would be had for $700 now. Maybe that's a price some people demand because they're low in stock, but once they are more available again, I can't see that lasting. The prices I'm quoting are from czcustom.com, where you could get an SP-01 (when it was in stock) for just under $600. I will admit, that could just be a temporary, "out of stock" price, but I just saw some SP-01s show up on budsgunshop.com and sell out within 3 days for $630.

The only way I'll be buying a high-dollar 1911 is if I buy it used. Given my options, I could never bring myself to pay over $800 on a 1911. Perhaps some day in a few years when I have a disposable income, I might bring myself to buy one, but I simply cannot justify the cost. I've handled a few 1911s including a Taurus in 9mm and at this point, I simply don't believe that a 1911 that costs 2x more is 2x better. I could not be more pleased with my RIA 1911 XT22 so at this point my opinion of RIA is simply good. Threads like this one don't do much to change my mind:

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=371855

To me, a high-dollar 1911 is more of a luxury.

Of course, there are also these CZ-75 clones that I could be looking at for $450, such as the Caniks on bud's.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...+FINISH+15%2B1
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Old December 27, 2012, 12:39 PM   #13
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the sti is hardly high dollar at $600 retail, but it offers a better look, feel, and overall fit than the ria.
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Old December 27, 2012, 12:46 PM   #14
XtremeRevolution
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Dan, where can I find that STI Spartan?

Also just read this:

Quote:
The Spartan is unique in that it is not made in the US like other STI products. It is made and assembled in the Philippines by people trained by STI to use a combination of Armscor and STI parts. Armscor makes the slide and frame and some other parts, and STI supplies parts such as the trigger, sear, hammer, and some other small parts of the fire mechanism. Spartans are then shipped to the US where they undergo final inspection before sale. They are, as well, warranted and treated the same by STI as all other products.
http://martowski.wordpress.com/2012/...st-accurate-9/
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Old December 27, 2012, 12:55 PM   #15
XtremeRevolution
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It might also be worth noting that the only reason why I'm considering a 1911 specifically in 9mm at this point is due to ammo cost. That said, if I get a 1911, it might not be as big of an issue as I have a 1911 in .22 that I could get a lot of practice time with.
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Old December 27, 2012, 01:12 PM   #16
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there are a bunch in all 3 sizes on gunbroker right now. i would assume you could also order through their website. i am personally saving up for one of their pricier double stack models right now. i currently own the spartan v 9mm and am very pleased. it easily holds with my high dollar colts and custom guns.

i had heard that they used armscor slide and frame, but i had also heard that they were held to a higher standard than other armscor made guns. that has definitely been evidenced by the examples i have personally held.
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Old December 27, 2012, 01:38 PM   #17
XtremeRevolution
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It sounds like the STI Spartans are very highly regarded.

I sent the seller of the Spartan 5" in .45 a private message asking if he'll accept payment via paypal (I have a significant balance there), and if he does, I'll be buying it in the next few days. Getting a bit tired of searching and going back and forth just to get back to the same point where I started when I first joined this forum: wanting a 1911.
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Old December 27, 2012, 02:47 PM   #18
loose_holster_dan
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when i first bought mine, i took it to the range and found myself to be a few inches off. since i had a bag full of other pistols and a group of friends waiting to try them out, i put it back in my bag. it sat in my safe for almost 6 months before i decided i was going to list it. i listed it on here for a couple of weeks with no serious offers (except constantine who is in a constant state of looking for his next pistol). on a whim, i put it in my range bag at the last minute for a trip up to my buddy's property. i found that i was still off, but i had some time to kill before our rifle competition, so i borrowed a screw driver, and dialed in the rear sights. man was i surprised. i could drive nails with that thing from 10yds. as soon as i got home that night, i closed my listing here and it's been at the top of my list since. recently i went head to head with a few shooters holding wilson combats and les baers. it might have been the shooter but i beat them all with my spartan v 9mm.
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Old December 27, 2012, 03:25 PM   #19
XtremeRevolution
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Good to hear. Should I assume that the .45 is every bit as accurate?

I'm just waiting for the sellers to get back to me now regarding paypal payments...
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Old December 27, 2012, 04:42 PM   #20
loose_holster_dan
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i would imagine, though i've never shot one.
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Old December 27, 2012, 06:34 PM   #21
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I'd go with a 9mm 1911 for the better trigger and customizing options.
I just see it as a better range partner.

I'd take the CZ 10-1 over any 1911 for personal/home defense though.

l also don't see either as a workable/tolerable/comfortable daily ccw.

Last edited by Dashunde; December 27, 2012 at 10:32 PM.
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Old December 27, 2012, 09:54 PM   #22
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Just a quick note. I haven't handled a $1,000 or more 1911 handgun, but they are that price for a reason I'm sure. Comparing to something half their price is probably laughable to those that own a high end 1911. I'm sure you'd agree given hmthe opportunity to handle one.

Just saying. They couldn't hold that price point if they weren't worth it.
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Old December 27, 2012, 10:23 PM   #23
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I've had 16-18 handguns in the past 4 yrs while looking for the (IMO) perfect carry gun. I've settled on CZ. The 2075 Rami alloy 9. I've had the Compact 75 and it's an awesome gun, too. I just wanted something smaller. I've had Glock, Kimber, Sig, Keltec, Kahr, Ruger, Taurus, Diamondback and Walther and Springfield and the only thing I MIGHT take over this Rami is the S'field Compact 3.8 in 9mm or .45. The CZ's are that good. No gun fits the hand like a CZ. I dare you to try one and not like it.
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Old December 27, 2012, 10:32 PM   #24
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Of course the 2 75s I held today were $775 each here in Kali today!
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Old December 27, 2012, 10:46 PM   #25
XtremeRevolution
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About high dollar 1911s being worth it, maybe there is something to it; I don't know. I held a SS Springfield 1911 that a gun shop was selling for $675 used, and I liked it. It felt great, but to say it's twice as good as a 1911 that you can get for $500 is a stretch. Just my personal experience. I also held and cycled through a Taurus 1911 9mm that belonged to one of the employees at the range I went to on Saturday and I was rather surprised by it.

The CZ 2075 RAMI looks pretty good. Very small, but it looks good. I just can't help but think of all the people who carry full size guns all the time and don't have any problem with it. I guess this is something I need to think more about. I haven't personally ever carried a gun so I have no idea how awkward or annoying it might be to carry something larger.

CZ-75s for $775 each!??! That's asinine. I have no doubt that's due entirely to the artificial inflation caused by recent events.
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